It's not about money with ASG

[NineOhTheRino]

I say it's about having the ability to seek out and evaluate talent. In lines with Wretch's great post, this is where the Hawks owners continuously fall short. Why are they not the looking for the next Doc, Pop, or Phil? You would not have to pay the next great coach or GM anything special. But LD and Sund are okay, and judging by the Hawks playoff record, I think this group of owners is clearly comfortable with okay.The rule here is simple. Aim low.

Edited May 18, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[macdaddy]

I don't really understand why in one breath everyone says this team is poorly constructed, full of guys with low bbiq, and a bunch of scrubs for a bench and then in the next we say LD is clueless or just ok. Can you ask someone to do more with supposedly such a poor group of players? What was Thibideux able to do once his star went down. He couldn't coach his team past the eighth seed. Does that make him a mediocre coach? What's Doc's record look like in years he didn't have 3 hall of famers plus an all star point guard?

[HawkItus]

I don't really understand why in one breath everyone says this team is poorly constructed, full of guys with low bbiq, and a bunch of scrubs for a bench and then in the next we say LD is clueless or just ok. Can you ask someone to do more with supposedly such a poor group of players? What was Thibideux able to do once his star went down. He couldn't coach his team past the eighth seed. Does that make him a mediocre coach? What's Doc's record look like in years he didn't have 3 hall of famers plus an all star point guard?

Check-mate!

[NineOhTheRino]

I don't really understand why in one breath everyone says this team is poorly constructed, full of guys with low bbiq, and a bunch of scrubs for a bench and then in the next we say LD is clueless or just ok. Can you ask someone to do more with supposedly such a poor group of players? What was Thibideux able to do once his star went down. He couldn't coach his team past the eighth seed. Does that make him a mediocre coach? What's Doc's record look like in years he didn't have 3 hall of famers plus an all star point guard?

LD is a smart guy, but he's not the right guy for this collection of misfits. I think it would be easier to find the right guys than a better group of misfits. Edited May 18, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I don't really understand why in one breath everyone says this team is poorly constructed, full of guys with low bbiq, and a bunch of scrubs for a bench and then in the next we say LD is clueless or just ok. Can you ask someone to do more with supposedly such a poor group of players? What was Thibideux able to do once his star went down. He couldn't coach his team past the eighth seed. Does that make him a mediocre coach? What's Doc's record look like in years he didn't have 3 hall of famers plus an all star point guard?

Hell, even Phil Jackson got swept in a playoff series... all a coach can do is put his players in the best situation possible (whether or not Drew does this is another debate), but it is up to the players to execute. ISO Joe, Josh raining 20 foot bricks, Teague constantly missing lay ups, and Marvin being an underachiever doesn't get the job done.

[AHF]

I don't really understand why in one breath everyone says this team is poorly constructed, full of guys with low bbiq, and a bunch of scrubs for a bench and then in the next we say LD is clueless or just ok. Can you ask someone to do more with supposedly such a poor group of players? What was Thibideux able to do once his star went down. He couldn't coach his team past the eighth seed. Does that make him a mediocre coach? What's Doc's record look like in years he didn't have 3 hall of famers plus an all star point guard?

LD isn't clueless but he isn't move the needle good and he has failed with our most key player - Josh Smith.As for our group of players, we are very well constructed for making the playoffs and have legit players. We are poorly constructed to be a legit contender and blew our chances at landing a few stars with some high picks, but that hardly means that our team shouldn't have a winning record every season.LD isn't the worst coach by any means but this locks us into another year of mediocrity, IMO. That is a tough place to be when barely making the second round of the playoffs is your best case outlook based on our management and players.

[Wretch]

I say it's about having the ability to seek out and evaluate talent. In lines with Wretch's great post, this is where the Hawks owners continuously fall short. Why are they not the looking for the next Doc, Pop, or Phil? You would not have to pay the next great coach or GM anything special. But LD and Sund are okay, and judging by the Hawks playoff record, I think this group of owners is clearly comfortable with okay.

The rule here is simple. Aim low.

The underlined and bolded part is what people are missing. If you look at the great teams out there...hell, just look at the rest of the NBA...changes get made. People are afraid of change for the sake of change, but that's just a poor way to put it. It's chemistry and you have to keep adding ingredients and changing the recipe until you get the right results.

People think I'm all about blowing up the team and the lottery... They also think I'm all about paying maximum dollar for a coach and trading everything JUST to get one superstar. The truth is, when you are stuck or even THINK that your team might be stuck, you have to do SOMETHING.

It's not really about throwing shit at the wall hoping something will stick. You have to stay active with your core, your coach, and even your management until you find the right mix. It doesn't always happen in that order, but you can't keep throwing out the status quo and suddenly expect dramatic results.

Chicago is going to come back with Rose and a mission. Miami is going to tweak their roster and come back with a new coach. Philly and Indiana are going to come back hungry and on a mission. These teams are not going to sit back and continue to throw the same product on the court. They're going to refine what they have until it becomes apparent that what they have isn't enough.

Folks, that's what winning is about. I'm not concerned about injuries. I don't care that LD did a good job. I don't care that Jeff Teague showed improvement. If you build a team based upon moral victories and incremental improvement, then you are going to trap yourself in mediocrity.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Wretch

[Joker]

I don't believe there are special GM's, you either suck or you don't. No middle ground. Coaches, I feel there are special ones but none can make this Hawk team a contender. The personnel isn't there. Drew is average. This was the point when Woody went from a career assistant type to a HC type, his 3rd year. Hopefully LD does the same.

[Joker]

LD isn't clueless but he isn't move the needle good and he has failed with our most key player - Josh Smith.As for our group of players, we are very well constructed for making the playoffs and have legit players. We are poorly constructed to be a legit contender and blew our chances at landing a few stars with some high picks, but that hardly means that our team shouldn't have a winning record every season.LD isn't the worst coach by any means but this locks us into another year of mediocrity, IMO. That is a tough place to be when barely making the second round of the playoffs is your best case outlook based on our management and players.

No coach in the NBA can make this personnel group a contender. No one.

[frosgrim]

Honestly, I think the ASG is in caretaker mode. They are just waiting on someone to offer to buy the team. They aren't going to build in management that costs more than they are bringing in.This is why we are stagnant right now, at least I hope that is the case. If not, then Gearon is more delusional than we give him credit for.

[Wretch]

Honestly, I think the ASG is in caretaker mode. They are just waiting on someone to offer to buy the team. They aren't going to build in management that costs more than they are bringing in.

This is why we are stagnant right now, at least I hope that is the case. If not, then Gearon is more delusional than we give him credit for.

Dude...that scares me more than anything.

[Dragitoff]

Marvin being an underachiever doesn't get the job done.

I think Marvin is what Marvin is. Phil Jackson could walk in here tomorrow and I don't think Marvin will change. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Joker]

Marvin needs a system. Al needs a PnR PG. Josh needs a brain. Joe needs to be #2 option. Zaza is Zaza.

[Wretch]

Hey lookit that... I got 3000 posts. Now just a few hundred thousand more or so and I can be like Diesel when I grow up!

[Admin]

Hard to say LD failed Josh when by all accounts Smoove had the best year of his career this year.

[Diesel]

LD is a smart guy, but he's not the right guy for this collection of misfits. I think it would be easier to find the right guys than a better group of misfits.

I kinda fall here. I think LD is smart and he's a really good coach.. but he's too nice of a guy.Our team is too nice of a team.We do what we feel like doing. And that's the problem.

[Diesel]

Honestly, I think the ASG is in caretaker mode. They are just waiting on someone to offer to buy the team. They aren't going to build in management that costs more than they are bringing in.This is why we are stagnant right now, at least I hope that is the case. If not, then Gearon is more delusional than we give him credit for.

I believe this too.

[hazer]

Larry Drew did outcoach many of the higher paid/higher profile coaches he faced. He's not a bad coach by any stretch.

[Guest]

I don't mind Drew like I didn't mind Woody. But I am just tired of the same old stuff for the past 8 years, the players might be too. I don't know what coach is best for the team but I would have liked to have seen a change, even if it's only change for change sake. The players are a little to comfortable, if the players are the same a different coach would have been nice.

[Dejay]

The underlined and bolded part is what people are missing. If you look at the great teams out there...hell, just look at the rest of the NBA...changes get made. People are afraid of change for the sake of change, but that's just a poor way to put it. It's chemistry and you have to keep adding ingredients and changing the recipe until you get the right results.

People think I'm all about blowing up the team and the lottery... They also think I'm all about paying maximum dollar for a coach and trading everything JUST to get one superstar. The truth is, when you are stuck or even THINK that your team might be stuck, you have to do SOMETHING.

It's not really about throwing shit at the wall hoping something will stick. You have to stay active with your core, your coach, and even your management until you find the right mix. It doesn't always happen in that order, but you can't keep throwing out the status quo and suddenly expect dramatic results.

Chicago is going to come back with Rose and a mission. Miami is going to tweak their roster and come back with a new coach. Philly and Indiana are going to come back hungry and on a mission. These teams are not going to sit back and continue to throw the same product on the court. They're going to refine what they have until it becomes apparent that what they have isn't enough.

Folks, that's what winning is about. I'm not concerned about injuries. I don't care that LD did a good job. I don't care that Jeff Teague showed improvement. If you build a team based upon moral victories and incremental improvement, then you are going to trap yourself in mediocrity.

This.

When it becomes obvious that you don't have the ingredients needed to complete the recipe, you either change the recipe or get the ingredients needed to finish the original recipe. You can't use water when the recipe calls for milk while expecting the food to turn out the same.

This is the fallacy I see and have preaching about for years now. Every decent team in the East who is watching Team Voltron implode right now is licking their chops. From Philly to Chicago to Milwaukee to Indy to NYC, they will all be gearing up in the offseason in an arms race to bring in REAL players. If the Hawks return next season with 'the core' intact, with only a few changes to Vet Mins/Old Gold, along with the same coaching staff, you can expect more of the same because they simply don't have the ingredients and aren't willing to go to Publix and get them. But they still believe that their red velvet cake is going to turn out great, despite being short on eggs, milk, flour, and food coloring. Right...

Edited May 19, 2012 by Dejay