Josh Smith ranked best perimeter defender in the NBA?

[GameTime]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8894024/nba-ranking-league-top-10-perimeter-defenders

[Admin]

Who's got "Insider" access?

[benhillboy]

I will never subscribe to ESPN due to the blatant disrespect my city gets. But I swear they try to reel you in with stories like this. Can't wait to read it because I cannot believe it with everyone here agreeing that his lateral quickness is substandard. I gotta look these numbers in the face to see if they're lying.

Edited January 29, 2013 by benhillboy

[JTB]

ok so now they want to hype josh smith up. I hate espn....I been saying his perimeter defense was good, in fact smith is good defensively period but that isnt his problem! Regardless if he is the best defender as this article may claim he still doesnt deserve the max contract with stupid offensive play that he does oh so often.

i applaud the defense being noticed. now lets fix this terrible offense decisions.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

What ppl think about Josh is going to be. Its gotting so bad on this board till where I try to stay away from it after a hawks loss do to all the tunnel vision. After evey loss there is a blame it in josh thread. And another and another. lolCheck... no bad LD line up. To Teague air floater or passibg up three. No Al getting manhandled by Amare. No our Gs can't stop other Gs. No why doesnt LD get pissed at the refs when his players are clearly not getting the calls when they go to the rim? To go a whole half with no FTs is crazy and LD will let this happen to his players. Woody would never stand for that. The last yr he coached he had Josh crying at a low. He told Josh to let him handle the refs.It used to be a blame Marvin, JJ, Zaza, Marvin and Woody. I miss the old days lolI try to fight to show other argue points where it looks like I'm a Josh "lover."

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Hell, even I'm at the point to where I want to say... let him go or trade him.

Lets see what happens.

To bad he's not going to be traded. lmbo!

[hawkrule152]

I have to laugh my ass off at this considering Carmelo just hit 9 3s with Smith guarding him the majority of the time.

[HawkItus]

ESPN.com: NBA [Print without images]Tuesday, January 29, 2013Top 10 perimeter defendersBy Bradford DoolittleBasketball ProspectusBoth Josh Smith and LeBron James rank as highly skilled defenders.One of the hardest things to measure in basketball is individual perimeter defense. Measuring interior defense is no picnic either, but in general, high shot-block and defensive rebound rates correlate to good overall team efficiency when it comes to preventing points. Teams with good defensive big men tend to be good overall on defense, and teams that lack a defensive anchor tend to give up a lot of points -- not always, but most of the time.It's not nearly as cut and dry when it comes to the point guards and wing players around the league. Coaching philosophies play a large part in perimeter defense, as does the quality of a team's big men. If you have Dwight Howard playing behind you, you should be able to be more aggressive out on the floor and cut down on open looks. That's theoretical, as this season's Los Angeles Lakers have managed to play bad defense even with Howard manning the middle.In an effort to rank the best perimeter defenders in the league, I've created a system that incorporates results from some of these various systems.From Synergy Sports Technology, I generated reports in overall points per play allowed as well as for isolation plays defended and points allowed on those isos. That accounts for three of the six factors. From 82games.com, I used team reports on PER allowed by position for factor No. 4. For No. 5, I used Jeremias Engelmann's regularized adjusted plus-minus (RAPM). And from my system, I added together percentages in blocks and steals, which is often correlated to good individual defense.I also used lineup analysis from my system to identify which spots players have occupied this season. A player must have logged at least 400 minutes this season and played one of the three perimeter spots at least 30 percent of the time. That's a little tricky because of combo forwards like Josh Smith and LeBron James, but I ultimately attempted to be more inclusive than not. There are 172 players who qualified for the rankings.The isolation data is particularly telling for a couple of reasons. First, when you think of the term "stopper," you have an image of a guy facing up with someone like Carmelo Anthony on the wing and digging in while Melo jab steps and head fakes before settling for a fadeaway jumper that clangs off the back of the rim. This is the stopper's job, and the essence of individual defense.More than that, you can tell a lot by how often a player is isolated on defense. If a guy can't play defense, teams will find a way to go at him. You have to be careful, because sometimes teams are very good at hiding poor defenders, who aren't left to fend for themselves often. The final formula is a weighted average of the rankings in the six factors. The plus-minus data is weighted the most heavily, followed by the Synergy data and steal-plus-block percentage.Here are this season's top 10 perimeter defenders:1. Josh Smith | Average rank: 17.94 Smith is certainly athletic enough to guard any position on the floor, though it's questionable whether he is a true perimeter stopper because of the amount of time he spends at power forward and guarding the rim. According to my system, he has played 33 percent of his minutes at small forward this season. He ranks sixth on a per-possession basis against isolations and second in steal-plus-block percentage. Smith is just a really good defensive player, which hasn't always been the case during his career.2. Andre Iguodala | 21.31 This ranking is true to Iguodala's reputation, as he is a big part of Denver's improved perimeter defense. Iguodala always draws the opponent's top perimeter scorer in crunch time, so he gets isolated fairly frequently. He ranks seventh in points per play allowed against isos, and fourth overall, so it's never a winning strategy to go at Iggy. He leads the league in RAPM.3. Mike Conley | 22.88 The Grizzlies are one of the top defensive teams in the league, and it starts with Conley's ability to delay opposing point guards from getting into their half-court sets and his thievery in the passing lanes. Playing alongside Tony Allen, who also made the top 10, doesn't hurt. Teams haven't been shy about isolating Conley, but he has held up well in those situations.4. Marquis Daniels | 26.44 Daniels has never rated very high by advanced metrics, but this shows why he keeps finding work in the NBA. He is first in points per isolation allowed in our group, first overall in points per play allowed and 19th in RAPM.5. Tony Allen | 31.00 Allen earned first team All-Defensive honors last season, so his defensive reputation is considerable. These rankings show just how good the Memphis backcourt is on the defensive end. Allen is third in RAPM. His rating is actually dragged down by his No. 99 ranking in what I've termed "defensive isolation usage." Teams have isolated Allen on an average of 12.1 out of every 100 possessions he's been on the court. That simply speaks to the quality of defensive assignments Allen draws from Lionel Hollins.6. Dwyane Wade | 34.50 Wade doesn't have a great reputation for individual defense, and true enough, he ranks just 50th in points per play against isolations. He is sixth overall in PPP and may benefit from always drawing the least crucial defensive assignment when he plays alongside LeBron James and Mario Chalmers. That allows Wade to roam free to collect steals and blocks and save his energy for the offensive end.7. Luc Mbah a Moute | 34.69 The top perimeter defense belongs to the Bucks, so it's fitting that they land a pair of defenders in the top 10. Mbah a Moute is an old school defensive specialist in the mold of Bruce Bowen. Like Smith, he plays a fair amount of time at the 4, and some of his numbers have been compiled in the paint. However, he has played more than half his minutes at the 3 and is one of the few players in the league who can legitimately guard four, maybe even five, positions.8. Vince Carter | 35.44 This is easily the most surprising name on the list. Carter didn't have a good defensive reputation when he was at his athletic peak, and he turned 36 a few days ago. He doesn't have a standout category but ranks in the top 40 in each of the five individual factors. The Mavericks haven't been great against perimeter players in general, ranking 25th in opponent PER. Carter, for what it's worth, has improved his teams' defense by 2.1 points per 100 possessions over the course of his long career. This season, the Mavericks are three points better on defense when Carter is on the floor.9. LeBron James | 37.00 It's no surprise that James shows up in any rankings, but when you consider that he has had to defend the paint more than ever before, this rating is really impressive. You would figure that teams playing big would be able to exploit him on the block. James is rarely exploited on the floor no matter what he's trying to do.10. Andrei Kirilenko | 39.00 It has to warm your heart when players with great defensive reputations show up in your objective system for rating defense. Kirilenko has long been one of the league's top help defenders, with combined rates of steals and blocks that few perimeter players have ever compiled.Finally, because I know you're wondering: Ranking 172nd, and last, is Miami's Mike Miller, just behind Sacramento's Jimmer Fredette and the Lakers' Chris Duhon.

[AHawks89]

Good for Smoove!

[EazyRoc]

Wow. I thought it was going to be bull, but mostly all of the other players on the list are actually good defenders.

[frankthetank966]

I have to laugh my ass off at this considering Carmelo just hit 9 3s with Smith guarding him the majority of the time.

Smoove was not guarding Carmello most of the game. In fact, Smith shut carmelo down a few times down the strech. Plus Carmelo is one of the best players in the league...tough to shut down.

[coachx]

Smoove was not guarding Carmello most of the game. In fact, Smith shut carmelo down a few times down the strech. Plus Carmelo is one of the best players in the league...tough to shut down.

and that is why the stats from guys in their mom's basement should not be used to draw conclusion like "Player X" is the best perimeter defender in the NBA. They don't even gage the most important fact of all in their data. That being, who does "Player X" defend ?

Guys like Iggy and T. Allen defends the best perimeter scorers in the game like: Melo, Durant, Kobe, and Pierce all game long............Josh Smith does not play that same role. Sure his perimeter defensive statistics look good when he defending Ron Artest or Brandon Bass more then the Kobes and Melo's of the league.

Still..........I hope this article helps to point out Josh's strengths. It can't hurt his trade value......though I doubt GMs read it. They have their own scouting reports.

[willthepureshooter]

and that is why the stats from guys in their mom's basement should not be used to draw conclusion like "Player X" is the best perimeter defender in the NBA. They don't even gage the most important fact of all in their data. That being, who does "Player X" defend ? Guys like Iggy and T. Allen defends the best perimeter scorers in the game like: Melo, Durant, Kobe, and Pierce all game long............Josh Smith does not play that same role. Sure his perimeter defensive statistics look good when he defending Ron Artest or Brandon Bass more then the Kobes and Melo's of the league. Still..........I hope this article helps to point out Josh's strengths. It can't hurt his trade value......though I doubt GMs read it. They have their own scouting reports.

When you're a 6'9 freak of nature with good athleticism, you can make any scorers life a living hell. He eats up more space when moving in any direction than any smaller perimeter defender, and his arm length allows him to recover when beaten. No one in this league can consistently shoot over a player Smooves size without stepping back or fading away, which slowly wears down any scorer.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Looks like some NJSI type of analysis to me. But people will take this as "gospel" because it's supposedly written by someone associated with ESPN.

Having said that, Smith's defense ( especially on SFs ) has been more than solid this year. I still marvel at that game in which he completely shut down Rudy Gay in Memphis.

No one should really question Smith's impact to the team. The team is light years better defensively when he's on the floor. It's the offensive impact ( the negative offensive impact ) that is the problem with the dude.

[macdaddy]

Looks like some NJSI type of analysis to me. But people will take this as "gospel" because it's supposedly written by someone associated with ESPN.

Having said that, Smith's defense ( especially on SFs ) has been more than solid this year. I still marvel at that game in which he completely shut down Rudy Gay in Memphis.

No one should really question Smith's impact to the team. The team is light years better defensively when he's on the floor. It's the offensive impact ( the negative offensive impact ) that is the problem with the dude.

I agree although the stats show he has a huge positive impact on the offensive end too. Frankly if he'd just leave the end of the game jump shooting and ball handling to someone else I think i'd be fine with the rest of his game. Other than the free throws. That's just horrible.

[Guest]

I have a lot of issues with Josh - defense is not one of them (except when he doesn't get back arguing a non call). You know the saying "good defense, better offense". All world defenders like Bruce Bowen, Tony Allen - they get beaten by all world scorers all the time. No shame in it, just gotta keep coming back.

I don't know if the article is spot on but I have no issues with Josh defensively.

[MaceCase]

and that is why the stats from guys in their mom's basement should not be used to draw conclusion like "Player X" is the best perimeter defender in the NBA. They don't even gage the most important fact of all in their data. That being, who does "Player X" defend ?

Guys like Iggy and T. Allen defends the best perimeter scorers in the game like: Melo, Durant, Kobe, and Pierce all game long............Josh Smith does not play that same role. Sure his perimeter defensive statistics look good when he defending Ron Artest or Brandon Bass more then the Kobes and Melo's of the league.

Still..........I hope this article helps to point out Josh's strengths. It can't hurt his trade value......though I doubt GMs read it. They have their own scouting reports.

Would say that this is sound criticism right here. It is true that unlike the majority of the others on the list that Josh isn't counted on for an every night basis to defend the opposing team's main point of attack like they are but he does have an overall impact on defense that can't be ignored.

Although this writer set out to create a metric to prove perimeter defense, the data that he is using doesn't in fact help prove any of it.

He's utilizing Synergy to make up 3 parts of criteria and weighs it the second most yet only one aspect of it, isolation, can be used to help determine individual defense but like you say, doesn't mention who. The others are PPP overall which would be skewed by PnR, Post Up, and other things that aren't neccesarily related to perimeter defense and then percentage of plays isolated. He states that if you are a bad defender that opposing teams will isolate on you more but if you are a frontcourt player, how often can you expect to be isolated outside of the post?

The RAPM is good but, as with all plus/minus, is hard to really prove any individual performance to speak nothing of individual matchups, yet this is what he's weighing the most in his metric. Josh has been godly under this metric though, I think he's something like 3rd or 4th over the past 4 seasons but alas, that's overall defensive impact, not perimeter d yet he choses to weigh this the heaviest in his metric.

I've commented before on the 82games opponent PER. Kyle Korver is still ranking as the best SG defender in NBA by that metric but we all know from watching him that he's usually matched up on the weaker wing player if not receiving tons of help D.

Then there's his own metric that he puts the third most weight behind where he uses steals and blocks as criteria of a good individual defender.......That was an odd decision because we all can agree that steals and blocks are aspects of help defense unless he's purposefully utilizing perhaps Synergy to determine on ball steals and blocks. I doubt he did. A guy like Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier are nearly universally agreed to be amongst the best perimeter defenders in the NBA yet neither has ever been big steals/blocks guys.

It was a nice attempt but poorly cobbled together. Like PER, it just looks legit because it ranks those who you already think are good very high but if you delve in you can see its flaws.