Myths...and the ultimate truth.

[Wretch]

Myth #1: "We are a losers and we're trying to turn it around for the top free agents to want to come here."

You are looking at one of the most successful teams in the NBA right now. If you bother to check the history, you would realize that. The problem is NOT that we are losers - we make the playoffs every year. The problem is that we are known as the team that can never get out of the 2nd round and we do not have the talent to attract the top free agents. That's why the marquee free agents are going elsewhere.

Myth #2: "If we lose, then we'll not have any fans at all!"

There are casual fans and there are true fans. Each of us is a true fan and we will support this team no matter what. The casual fan IS NOT supporting us right now. They come to "The Highlight Factory" to see the Bulls, Knicks, and Heat create highlights. Even if we are losing, they will still come to see those teams.

We are already at the bottom of the league in attendance. HELLO! We are 26th out of 30 RIGHT NOW. What exactly are you afraid of? That we'll be....*gasp*..28th? It literally can't get worse. Moreover, reference myth #1...we have this attendance issue despite being a relatively successful franchise.

The same people who are coming to see the Hawks now are the same people who came when we sucked.

Myth #3: "Danny Ferry is putting together a solid, smart, workaholic team! We are trying to WIN not be losers and THAT will change the national perception!"

Newsflash people. We are a winning team RIGHT NOW. I just showed you that. We are NOT going to be attractive because we work hard. We will only be attractive when we put together a contender or if we acquire dynamic talent that OTHER top tier free agents want to play with.

Myth #3: "All you guys want is to have a superstar so you can buy jerseys and watch them make commercials! You think we should tank and we'll get Michael Jordan. Teams win games, not individuals and teams are built through trades and free agency!"

Wrong.

Elite talent wins. This is what people like Ferry, Gearon, and "anti-tank" people can't wrap their minds around. Elite talent is what makes a difference. Teams build around those kinds of players and those kinds of teams attract the best free agents.

What we want is OUR OWN engine and we want to build around that instead of Josh Smith or Al Horford (who are both good complimentary pieces).

Myth #4: "We're stockpiling assets and we're changing the culture!"

No we're not. We're trying to win now and next year and the year after. The plan is to reload every 2 years or so. Instead of being stuck with a middling team for 4-5 years, we will build a middling team every 2 years.

Myth #5 (related to the previous myth): "But we'll be winners and people will see that we are winners and things will change!"

See everything that I just told you. What we will be essentially doing is extending what we've already seen here. What I'm seeing assembled is not a tank roster (I think we can agree on that) and it doesn't have an engine. If we keep adding spare parts to it, there won't be money to buy an engine either.

Reason why that sucks? Because in 2 years, we will have more mid-late, 1st round draft picks...just like the Babcock era. If you guys think finding elite talent in the lottery is hard...you should be shitting in your pants at the thought of fishing it out of the late 1st round.

Now, let me reveal the plot twist and quote Gearon for you:

I look at us, and you measure a team on its results: How are we doing vs. the league? There are three teams the last three years that have advanced past the first round. The Lakers—who everybody loves the Lakers—the Celtics and the Atlanta Hawks. It’s not the Dallas Mavericks, it’s not the Miami Heat, it’s not the New York Knicks, it’s not the Oklahoma City Thunder, it’s not the Orlando Magic. It’s just those three. Have we been able to win a championship? No. But our goal is to be as competitive and entertaining as possible and it’s unrealistic to every year have the only measure of your success as winning a championship because one in 30 do it. So you keep getting better and competing each year in order to try to complete for that championship.

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2011/12/17/atlanta-hawks-michael-gearon-jr-q-and-a/

You see that? Imagine the initial conversation between our owners and Danny Ferry. There should be ice in your stomach right about now. At a minimum, you should be weary of this new union. There is a reason why our ownership is so quiet... It's because they have a guy saying it and doing it for them and they are pretending to just be an ownership group.

People that talk like Gearon, namely Danny Ferry and all of you posters who think we're headed for Spurs glory, can't see the woods for the trees. The ASG (or whatever they're called now) found a guy that shares their belief system and that's why you're seeing what you're seeing.

It's a combination of WLOC and "win without losing" in a Danny Ferry style reload every 2 years. Ferry style...is similar to what he did in Cleveland...same "patch-job", "get what you can", and head-scratching, but without a LeBron as the centerpiece.

Sound tempting?

What I'm really afraid of is that Ferry is out to prove something - that he's trying to buck convention. It was disastrous the last time a guy came in here with that sort of "I know what I'm doing" attitude. Now go ahead and tell me, like you've been telling me for 16 years, how I'm jumping to conclusions.

I didn't randomly pick this forum handle.

[Sothron]

Wretch bringing the truth hard.

My summation for our franchise now:

Treadmill team be treadmillin'

[Wretch]

Wretch bringing the truth hard.

My summation for our franchise now:

Treadmill team be treadmillin'

You ain't said NUFFIN' bro!

[Admin]

Cliff notes version - Wretch wants us to tank. Right?

[atlbraves93]

[Wretch]

Cliff notes version - Wretch wants us to tank. Right?

No...the short version is in my signature. :D

[Admin]

No...the short version is in my signature. :D

Don't say short version. A book has cliff notes :)I'm on my phone so can't see your sig right now.

[Vol4ever]

The Hawks were 26th in league attendance, so there are not a great number coming anyway. If the Hawks trade for Linn then you McWilliams see an increase quickly.

[Plainview1981]

I think number 4 is a key issue. I think Ferry wants to reload every couple of years and he figures that sooner or later he will strike big with a FA. My belief is that Ferry see's most of these players as hard workers, but expendable in the grand scheme of things. That's partly why you see so many guys with short contracts. He wants to promote a Spurs brand of basketball, but there is no Duncan to play along side and right now that's what star players want. They want to play along side other star players.

What I'm really afraid of is that Ferry is out to prove something - that he's trying to buck convention. It was disastrous the last time a guy came in here with that sort of "I know what I'm doing" attitude. Now go ahead and tell me, like you've been telling me for 16 years, how I'm jumping to conclusions.

I didn't randomly pick this forum handle

This is pretty much it. I think Ferry is smarter than Billy Knight, but ultimately his downfall will probably not be overly different.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Hotlanta1981

[Diesel]

Let me get into some of this.

1. We are not loser, but we are not successful either. We are nothing. We have been a 2nd round exit but lately, we've been demoted to a first round exit. Being nothing means that we are a joke to the media and being a joke to free agents. But we're not the only nothing team that has ever been. Up until this past season, Indy was Nothing too. How ddi they get out of their nothingness existence. It wasn't by tanking. Paul George was a 10 pick. Roy HIbbert was a 17 pick. They picked freaking Tyler Hansbrough. They drafted midrounders and helped them become stars by using their assets to surround them with competitors. That team was 1 coaching mistake away from being in the title game.

2. The question is not will we lose fans. The question is if we put a good brand of basketball on the floor, will we create a fanbase? I grew up a Falcons fan. They also had some very good years and some very sucky years. After Bartkowski and White Shoes and Riggs, finding fans was hard. Until primetime. Primetime was the big name that brough fans.. BUT when Primetime left, so did those fans. We never built a fanbase until new ownership took over. New ownership brought in a RIGHT WAY of doing things.

I don't know where DFerry is going. I just don't. However, if his plan is to do things the right way... And build up a fanbase, then I am about it. We could get somebody really good to come here but I was here when Nique played before empty orange seats in his latter years. This team needs to concentrate on getting a base. You do that by doing things the right way. We haven't been right since the guarantee. FANS don't trust our team.

3. I don't deny that Elite talent wins championships... BUt let's see something I'm going to list some players and you tell me if they are elite talent:

Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Derrick Rose, Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard, James Harden, Chris Paul, Luol Deng, Brook Lopez, Joakim Noah, Paul George, David Lee, and Zach Randolph. AND Charles Barkley, Dominique Wilkins, Patrick Ewing, Reggie Miller, Karl Malone, and John Stockton.

These are guys from this years Allstar game and from the NBA Hall of Fame. Are they elite talent?

You know where I'm going right??

It's not always about elite talent.

4. What happens if we win? What happens if we make it to the ECF? Do you think we will still be regarded the same as we are now:

by the fans?

by the media?

by other free agents?

After we went the playoffs and played the eventual NBA champions to a 7th game in round 1, our perception changed from the fans, media and other free agents. That was one playoff series that captured a new generation and more attention than we ever had. We never really capitalized on it because our GM was stubborn, however, we might have a team who can do what they couldn't. Make the right moves. I can tell you this... we have seen what tanking can't do. Tanking can't change how we are perceived.... That's the truth. Nobody perceived the Bobcats any differently than they are. no matter how many lottery picks they get. Same with the Wizards same with the Timberwolves... These guys you expect to see in the lottery because they are trying to make something happen without changing their culture. So they get lottery players who go there, get tired of losing and leave. Is that what you want for this team??

TELL THE TRUTH!

[swolehawk2]

I think number 4 is a key issue. I think Ferry wants to reload every couple of years and he figures that sooner or later he will strike big with a FA. My belief is that Ferry see's most of these players as hard workers, but expendable in the grand scheme of things. That's partly why you see so many guys with short contracts. He wants to promote a Spurs brand of basketball, but there is no Duncan to play along side and right now that's what star players want. They want to play along side other star players.

This is pretty much it. I think Ferry is smarter than Billy Knight, but ultimately his downfall will probably not be overly different.

This is correct, Ferry wants to be a player in Free Agency every couple of years, in attempt to lure stars, while remaining competitive. I think it is a good move, if you pay attention, championships these days are being bought in FAgency, not drafted. Not many high draft picks have LED the team that drafted them to a championship in recent years.

[TheDude]

The Rockets haven't won pocket lint lately and they got Harden in a trade and Dwight in free agency. I don't see why we can't do the same.

I think you can use the pieces you have to get a high draft pick or free agent if you have the assets. We haven't even attempted to do that when we did have tradeable pieces in the past. We haven't even tried that. And the only reason Ferry didn't try is because he first had to get rid of the crappy JJ contract. In the past we could have traded Josh Smith and Marvin for a decent center or point. But we haven't tried. My hope is that with a better GM, we try if need be.

[drzachary]

You forgot Myth #6: Tanking works.

[plskeepbibby]

Well then quit blaming Ferry for every move that is made....Everyone on this board agrees that the ASG is a sham... No one defends them. Your hate would sound a lot more intelligent if it was directed at Gearon or any member of the OWNERSHIP group...

[Plainview1981]

This is correct, Ferry wants to be a player in Free Agency every couple of years, in attempt to lure stars, while remaining competitive. I think it is a good move, if you pay attention, championships these days are being bought in FAgency, not drafted. Not many high draft picks have LED the team that drafted them to a championship in recent years.

The Spurs drafted Duncan and Parker. Yes, The Thunder did not win the title, but they got to the finals by drafting. The Mavericks drafted Dirk and got a title and another finals appearance out of it. Even Boston had Paul Pierce when they brought KG and Allen over. Nobody says we got to be in the draft forever. But expecting to put together a championship team without a center piece is a long shot. The Heat already had Wade also.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Hotlanta1981

[Jody23]

So we just saw Ferry pursue Dwight Howard until Howard said no and he had every intention of pursuing Paul too before he was told no by Paul too. And that says to everyone that Ferry doesn't understand that elite talent win in this league? Just because he moved and signed a couple of role players to two yr contracts. NOT FOUR, BUT TWO YR DEALS. From all that, we get that he doesn't understand elite talent is needed to win? Okay.

[Wretch]

Let me get into some of this.

1. We are not loser, but we are not successful either. We are nothing. We have been a 2nd round exit but lately, we've been demoted to a first round exit. Being nothing means that we are a joke to the media and being a joke to free agents. But we're not the only nothing team that has ever been. Up until this past season, Indy was Nothing too. How ddi they get out of their nothingness existence. It wasn't by tanking. Paul George was a 10 pick. Roy HIbbert was a 17 pick. They picked freaking Tyler Hansbrough. They drafted midrounders and helped them become stars by using their assets to surround them with competitors. That team was 1 coaching mistake away from being in the title game.

2. The question is not will we lose fans. The question is if we put a good brand of basketball on the floor, will we create a fanbase? I grew up a Falcons fan. They also had some very good years and some very sucky years. After Bartkowski and White Shoes and Riggs, finding fans was hard. Until primetime. Primetime was the big name that brough fans.. BUT when Primetime left, so did those fans. We never built a fanbase until new ownership took over. New ownership brought in a RIGHT WAY of doing things.

I don't know where DFerry is going. I just don't. However, if his plan is to do things the right way... And build up a fanbase, then I am about it. We could get somebody really good to come here but I was here when Nique played before empty orange seats in his latter years. This team needs to concentrate on getting a base. You do that by doing things the right way. We haven't been right since the guarantee. FANS don't trust our team.

3. I don't deny that Elite talent wins championships... BUt let's see something I'm going to list some players and you tell me if they are elite talent:

Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Derrick Rose, Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard, James Harden, Chris Paul, Luol Deng, Brook Lopez, Joakim Noah, Paul George, David Lee, and Zach Randolph. AND Charles Barkley, Dominique Wilkins, Patrick Ewing, Reggie Miller, Karl Malone, and John Stockton.

These are guys from this years Allstar game and from the NBA Hall of Fame. Are they elite talent?

You know where I'm going right??

It's not always about elite talent.

4. What happens if we win? What happens if we make it to the ECF? Do you think we will still be regarded the same as we are now:

by the fans?

by the media?

by other free agents?

After we went the playoffs and played the eventual NBA champions to a 7th game in round 1, our perception changed from the fans, media and other free agents. That was one playoff series that captured a new generation and more attention than we ever had. We never really capitalized on it because our GM was stubborn, however, we might have a team who can do what they couldn't. Make the right moves. I can tell you this... we have seen what tanking can't do. Tanking can't change how we are perceived.... That's the truth. Nobody perceived the Bobcats any differently than they are. no matter how many lottery picks they get. Same with the Wizards same with the Timberwolves... These guys you expect to see in the lottery because they are trying to make something happen without changing their culture. So they get lottery players who go there, get tired of losing and leave. Is that what you want for this team??

TELL THE TRUTH!

On your first point... Paul George was a #10 pick. Dude....you just invalidated everything about using the Pacers. Where do they go without Paul George? He was a LOTTERY pick. If you're saying the Pacers didn't "intentionally" lose...then you're talking semantics. They drafted a guy out of the lottery. You don't get there unless you miss the playoffs. Ferry and this ownership group is not about to miss the playoffs.

On your second point... The fans don't care about "the right way" of doing things. We've been winning for years. We've been doing what you guys are talking about for years. It hasn't changed the perception by the fans, media, or the players. The right way of doing things means one thing - GET OUT OF THE SECOND ROUND AND CONTEND. You don't do that without elite talent. you don't get elite talent by being a treadmill team and filing up your roster with...C-list players.

On your third point... I don't even know how to approach that. You just rattled of a list of names that we can only DREAM about in here. Of course they haven't won anything, but you get somebody like that...and YOU BUILD AROUND THEM, ***WISELY***, and you can contend. Conversely, how many of those kinds of players have we had since Nique?

On your last point... I doubt we will make it that far. We are doing what we always have, with less talent, expecting different results. If we make it that far...it will be hard to improve because we won't have anything that anybody really wants - and if we trade a core part of it, we will take a step back. But you'll have to wake me when this actually happens because I just don't see it. Not like this.

You are also assuming that if we draft a young stud that we can't keep him and we can't build a talented team around him...yet you have all this confidence in Danny Ferry to do the same thing with scraps and late 1st rounders...?

[Plainview1981]

When people say teams are being built through FA... Those teams also had PP, Wade and Dirk as center pieces. The Hawks have Al Horford as a center piece. Big difference.

[Wretch]

The Rockets haven't won pocket lint lately and they got Harden in a trade and Dwight in free agency. I don't see why we can't do the same.

I think you can use the pieces you have to get a high draft pick or free agent if you have the assets. We haven't even attempted to do that when we did have tradeable pieces in the past. We haven't even tried that. And the only reason Ferry didn't try is because he first had to get rid of the crappy JJ contract. In the past we could have traded Josh Smith and Marvin for a decent center or point. But we haven't tried. My hope is that with a better GM, we try if need be.

The Rockets traded TWO lottery picks for Harden, one of them their own. The other could have been anything outside of TOP 3. Stop using Houston as the example.

[Guest]

When people say teams are being built through FA... Those teams also had PP, Wade and Dirk as center pieces. The Hawks have Al Horford as a center piece. Big difference.

And how long did it take PP and Dirk from when they were drafted to win the championhip?