Who We Are? The new coach weighs in

[sturt]

From Peachtree Hoops:

"We wanted to put together a group that is really, first and foremost, great competitors," Budenholzer said. "You have to have guys that will compete every night, every possession. Bringing in a guy like Paul, a guy with a really high basketball IQ, and how hard he plays, was big. In Paul, and Elton and Gustavo Ayón, we feel like we're adding guys who check all of those boxes and will play together as a group. They're better as a group than they are individually."

Seems to echo at least one of the two themes that many of us have been saying; i.e., "competitors," readily translates to "lunch pail guys,"

What's a little less clear is "better as a group than individually."

If I could follow up, I'd ask, "Coach, how would you have any "feel" for that at all?"

To me and others, for now, they're just a collection of spare parts that appear to be relatively free of injury and mental cases... which, don't get me wrong... is a net positive. Whether they all assemble into an engine that hums and roars... and wins... is an open question.

And... soberly... another interpretation is "I know they're not all that great individually, but we have hopes their chemistry will mask that."

Edited August 7, 2013 by sturt

[hazer]

I think Bud is talking about "system." He has a very specific one in mind, and specific types of pieces that work in that system. As Pop has been quoted as saying, Bud was essentially "co-coach" for the Spurs for a good while. So he knows the system and how to implement it, inside and out. I'd even be willing to bet that in the years of playing other teams, there were players that caught their eye as being a good fit for their "system." I'm pretty sure Paul Millsap is one of those players.

Edited August 7, 2013 by hazer

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

We are who we are lol

We are a team of hustle. We will get at it and, for some, this will be a great year for Hawks fans. This year will be the first real glimpse at what Ferry and Bud are looking to cook up. I am so ready to have a real team that works hard in Atlanta. No more of these finesse, "And-1"-type street ball units. No more ISO-Joe. No more mid-range shawties. Just winners playing a role the right way within an actual system. Go Hawks!

[kerrypack]

"competitors" does not translate to "lunch pail guys" whatsoever. I don't want to troll, but that just isn't a logical jump.

Jordan was a great competitor. Kobe is a great competitor. They want to win. and of course they are also superstars.

One all star caliber player on the team, a number of good system guys. I don't think that lunch pail is the right term, though. I don't even know if this is a "hustle" team; dmc is, of course. what is he saying (and I don't have time to read the article)? he is saying that he wants high iq players who compete hard. so he wants to play fundamentally sound basketball within a system with smart people who want to win. Is that so hard to understand?

what negative conclusions can one infer? I don't think that most would argue that this team is the most physically talented.

[benhillboy]

I think this will be the best season in recent memory IMO. The 53 game winning season with Jamal was great, but Joe was on that team so I can only like it so much. Last season was very entertaining for me as well with the threes and passing despite the patchwork lineups, but that team still had Josh. This is the first team that doesn't have a player I strongly dislike, so we shooting for Deke-Smitty-Mook territory. If we can repeat the health history of the 53-win season rather than last, 50 wins is very possible. Our two leaders in Al and Bud know nothing but winning and playoff appearances, so I have no fear of some of these upstart teams passing us who have no recent pedigree of being good.

[IllestPamfilis]

An addition a lot of people are overlooking. I think we got one hell of a coach in Bud. He wont deal with slackers or egos, and you better play your ass off 110% of the time. He's going to bring the best out of anybody we sign, and if not, they'll be at the end of the bench catching splinters. IMO the biggest addition for any team this offseason. In Bud we trust.

Edited August 7, 2013 by IllestPamfilis

[sturt]

I suppose the point of creating a new thread as opposed to commenting in one of those that are already addressing the prognosis for the team is that this is what the coach himself thinks of the roster. It is notable to me that he says this team is "first and foremost" a roster of "competitors." Beyond that, only mentions "basketball IQ." There is no assertion about the level of talent... which, you can choose to think is meaningless, but I think says a whole lot. Someone above mentioned the competitive nature of MJ and Kobe... and while it's true that they were that, no legitimate conversation about either of those is going to exclude their elite talent. I have no trouble with him omitting any talk of the talent level... as I said, it's a net positive that we have a roster of guys who have ordinarily stayed healthy and who don't have psychological or social issues. It's not that we don't have talent, by the way... it's that we don't have talent that is ordinarily going to exceed the talent level of our opponents... and if you're dead even in that way, and sometimes even when you've got something less, it always helps when your guys are workers who leave it all on the floor for 48 or more minutes.

[kerrypack]

he wants smart bball players that play together hard (gay porn hard!) as a team. that is what i would take from his comments. the key words in his statements are compete, competitors, high iq, play hard, group play, and team.

notice that we did not re-sign lunchpail players like ivan johnson and zaza. what we do have is players who are pretty smart who will play hard within a team concept. I still think we are missing talent and a star player, but I'm excited and will enjoy watching this team.

(note that I became a hawks fan during the isaiah rider days lol, so I am pretty patient.)

[DrReality]

Bringing up our new guys in this culture will be huge. Make them winners not whiners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jrok23]

dang cannot wait for the season to start

[Wretch]

I suppose the point of creating a new thread as opposed to commenting in one of those that are already addressing the prognosis for the team is that this is what the coach himself thinks of the roster. It is notable to me that he says this team is "first and foremost" a roster of "competitors." Beyond that, only mentions "basketball IQ." There is no assertion about the level of talent... which, you can choose to think is meaningless, but I think says a whole lot. Someone above mentioned the competitive nature of MJ and Kobe... and while it's true that they were that, no legitimate conversation about either of those is going to exclude their elite talent. I have no trouble with him omitting any talk of the talent level... as I said, it's a net positive that we have a roster of guys who have ordinarily stayed healthy and who don't have psychological or social issues. It's not that we don't have talent, by the way... it's that we don't have talent that is ordinarily going to exceed the talent level of our opponents... and if you're dead even in that way, and sometimes even when you've got something less, it always helps when your guys are workers who leave it all on the floor for 48 or more minutes.

To me, Bud is just echoing the mantra that Ferry has slowly brought in the door with him. They intend to bring a winning culture here and they only want players who have that winning attitude. These guys understand the need for talent. Danny being a former player, and both of them being involved with winning at the highest level, there is no way that they don't see the need for elite talent. That being said, they both know this season's ceiling and their doing their best to sell what we DO have to the public.

There's a couple of things that rub me the wrong way though. The first is not so much with the coaching/management as much as it is with the fans. I understand that people are optimistic, but these buzzwords like "competitive", "hard working", "high BBIQ", and "high character"...those are all great things...but they are supplementary characteristics in nature. You don't build your team around these things, you build them around talent and you look for these kind of things as a bonus.

Seriously...LeBron is a hard worker, he has a VERY high BBIQ, he's uber-competitive, and while his character may be questionable to some...we're not going to beat his team because we've got classier guys. It may make the team more likable, but it doesn't necessarily make them better. Moreover, there are quite a few teams with similar elite talent that all have the same bonuses. It's not like we're going to have an advantage there and I think some of us put too much stock into the buzz words.

The other thing that makes me question the current management is the marketability of a "lunch pail" team in ATL. There are cities that can identify with that sort of team, lots of them actually. There are a few that I can think of where a blue collar team is just a bad fit. Immediately LA and ATL come to mind. Maybe even Miami. To sell that kind of team here, you will need more than just a winner. We've been that kind of blue collar winner before and we've been just a winning team for ages...to the DETRIMENT of our attendance. To sell this kind of team to Atlanta, they will have to do better than just making the ECF's or even one or two games in the ECF's. Otherwise, I can hear the same old criticisms coming.

...and again, it doesn't matter to most anybody on this board what kind of team is on the court. We're die hard fans. We can't look exclusively through our eyes and expect everyone else to get on board with this team.

[ATLSmith]

I for one look forward to seeing some hustle on a nightly basis. It can make for some exciting basketball.

Look how far the Bulls got on hustle alone this past season.

[Diesel]

From Peachtree Hoops:

Seems to echo at least one of the two themes that many of us have been saying; i.e., "competitors," readily translates to "lunch pail guys,"

What's a little less clear is "better as a group than individually."

If I could follow up, I'd ask, "Coach, how would you have any "feel" for that at all?"

To me and others, for now, they're just a collection of spare parts that appear to be relatively free of injury and mental cases... which, don't get me wrong... is a net positive. Whether they all assemble into an engine that hums and roars... and wins... is an open question.

And... soberly... another interpretation is "I know they're not all that great individually, but we have hopes their chemistry will mask that."

It's imperative that Bud is able to implement his style without adversity. That's why Smoove had to go. Ferry is basically collecting assets, removing whiners, and replacing them with "Good guys" who " are competitive".

The Hawks right now are a "showcase team." Ferry wants everybody to fill up the stat sheets and the highlight reels and put Ws on the table. Then when their value is high, he will trade them for players who will come in and bring in more talent.

[nathan2331]

When's the last time we've been a "winning" team? We've been losers for more than a decade. Our record and playoff appearances may not suggest it but we haven't been an up trending team in a while. After our first playoff series with the Celtics, the magic has been gone ever since. Atlanta is a great market for basketball but you can only expect fans to support a mediocre ownership for so long.

[Diesel]

When's the last time we've been a "winning" team? We've been losers for more than a decade. Our record and playoff appearances may not suggest it but we haven't been an up trending team in a while. After our first playoff series with the Celtics, the magic has been gone ever since. Atlanta is a great market for basketball but you can only expect fans to support a mediocre ownership for so long.

You have the prevailing attitude of the fanbase. You say we have been Losers. I take it to mean that we have not won a championship. Over the last 35 years, there have been only 8 franchises to win a championship:

Lakers, Bulls, Mavs, Pistons, Spurs, Heat, Celtics, and Rockets.

That's a damnmazing when you really think about it. That means that we can count ourselves amoung the 73% who are losers.

I am not saying that we should be pleased with not winning it all, but what I am saying is that it's hypercritical to disregard winning seasons under the circumstances we have had. Especial when for 35 years, only 8 franchises have gotten it right.

[Wretch]

When's the last time we've been a "winning" team? We've been losers for more than a decade. Our record and playoff appearances may not suggest it but we haven't been an up trending team in a while. After our first playoff series with the Celtics, the magic has been gone ever since. Atlanta is a great market for basketball but you can only expect fans to support a mediocre ownership for so long.

http://www.nba.com/encyclopedia/playoffs_appearances.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_franchise_post-season_streaks

Hadoken.

[nathan2331]

http://www.nba.com/encyclopedia/playoffs_appearances.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_franchise_post-season_streaks Hadoken.

You're missing my point. When you have a team that you know will make the playoffs, but will not contend, because the front office is reluctant to mess with the "core" you have accomplished nothing. The front office has failed the fans for years and that is why they won't be supported. This team is/has been a joke because we haven't been relevant in years. The NBA isn't a league where making the playoffs gives you a chance at the championship. If you aren't a powerhouse, you're not winning anything. I don't mind being a treadmill playoff team so long as I know that we're moving in the right direction, making smart decisions in the things we do control (draft, player development) and being active in the things we don't control (trades, free agency). But this playoff streak we have is a glorified participation medal.

[yungsta]

we got to the playoffs mostly because of talent and eastern conference is weak but we still had that loser mentality. I dont think I have ever seen a team get blown out, embarrassed, and give up in playoff games as much as the hawks.

[Wretch]

You're missing my point. When you have a team that you know will make the playoffs, but will not contend, because the front office is reluctant to mess with the "core" you have accomplished nothing. The front office has failed the fans for years and that is why they won't be supported. This team is/has been a joke because we haven't been relevant in years. The NBA isn't a league where making the playoffs gives you a chance at the championship. If you aren't a powerhouse, you're not winning anything. I don't mind being a treadmill playoff team so long as I know that we're moving in the right direction, making smart decisions in the things we do control (draft, player development) and being active in the things we don't control (trades, free agency). But this playoff streak we have is a glorified participation medal.

Said front office handpicked Danny Ferry.

Said GM has built a team that looks to be just shy of the front of the pack but clearly ahead of the back (i.e. - middle of the pack).

Said team looks to be the blueprint for the foreseeable future.

[blah, blah, blah] won't be supported/hasn't been relevant in years...you are preaching to the choir m'man.

We is a winner. Right dafuq now. Been a winner for a LOOOOOONG time. Save for a ***SCARCE**** few lottery years, we have been a solid, playoff, hard working, classy, gosh-golly-durnit WINNING team! Nothing has changed....yet.

Forgive me, for a cheap bottle of wine has seduced me and I'll probably wonder why I typed half of these words dumorrow...

Edited August 9, 2013 by Wretch

[Diesel]

You're missing my point. When you have a team that you know will make the playoffs, but will not contend, because the front office is reluctant to mess with the "core" you have accomplished nothing. The front office has failed the fans for years and that is why they won't be supported. This team is/has been a joke because we haven't been relevant in years. The NBA isn't a league where making the playoffs gives you a chance at the championship. If you aren't a powerhouse, you're not winning anything. I don't mind being a treadmill playoff team so long as I know that we're moving in the right direction, making smart decisions in the things we do control (draft, player development) and being active in the things we don't control (trades, free agency). But this playoff streak we have is a glorified participation medal.

Where do you look for relevancy??

IF it's among the league FORGET IT.

IF it's among the media. FORGET IT.

IF it's among the fans. FORGET IT.

IF we had a star, we still wouldn't be relevant. The Media Hates us. We have nobody who talks us up on a National Level. All we can do to effect relevancy is change GMs and Coaches and hope that the unknown or known will garner enough respect that the media will give us a chance.

The fans will be led by the media.

I have seen 60 win teams get booed in this city. The reason being is because the local and national media basically said, this team ought to be booed. The nail in the coffin for the BK administration was BK being a smug asshole and then him picking Marvin over Paul. The media never let that go and the fans never let that go. The Media would much rather talk about our ownership split and our missing out on Chris Paul or Joe Johnson's contract than to talk about what we do on the court. And Just like Lemmings, the fans follow the media without question. So then we have these teams that are doing good, beating teams that are better than them and the fans are still booing. The year we beat Orlando in the playoffs and won game 1 against Chicago, it's amazing that the fans never got behind these Hawks. When the series came back to Atlanta, it was like a Derrick Rose coronation. Why? Because the media would rather harp on Joe Johnson's contract or Josh Smith's bonehead shots or how good Chicago's coach is compared to ours than to concentrate on the good basketball that we had played or the momentum we had.

So here's the take home. Be careful where you look for Relevancy. In Atlanta, the media doesn't know how to keep it's teams relevant.