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We can't even tank right?

Diesel

By Diesel
in Homecourt

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Wretch Grand Master

Wretch

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Truth is, elite teams get better by incorporating both of these philosophies. Draft well, sign the right guys, and make the right trades when they present themselves. You gotta be bad to get good and you gotta be smart to become great.

This is the truth. I don't think you really HAVE to be bad to get good...but, man it's a tough fighting over free agents and hoping that a late 1st rounder blossoms into Rondo or Millsap. As much as people groan about the lottery, man...your chances of finding an impact player outside of the top 10 are like...zero. A lot of those guys, especially in the 2nd round, rarely even play in the NBA. Some never play a single game.

The tough part about rebuilding (I hate the word "tanking") is the uncertainty. You lose all these games, you're a laughing stock, you have no free agent draw...AT ALL...and you basically sit around on eggs waiting for them to hatch. Then there's that ultimate defeating moment...when you realize Chill, Marvin, or Sheldon...really isn't going to pan out.

The flip side of that though is that you still have the asset. That's substantial for me. Teams flip top picks, and swap those kinds of players, all the time for big time talent. Personally, there is nothing better for me than seeing us compete...seriously compete. When Teague broke out and we thought we were gonna upset the Bulls...and when we shocked Boston, that was pure joy for me. Absolute joy and there are few moments in Hawks history that compare for me.

This thing that we're doing now? It's agonizing because there really is no "potential" here. This team is what it is. I had much more fun combing over draft prospects, watching the tourney, arguing over who to draft, and watching the Baby Birds learn to fly...than I do now KNOWING what the outcome of this postseason will be. :(

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Dejay Proficient

Dejay

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The San Antonio Spurs would be the Hawks today if they had not drafted Robinson and Duncan.

Nah. The Louisville/OKC/Kansas City Spurs would be the Hawks today if they had not drafted Robinson and Duncan. Neither the Alamodome or their current arena would've gotten off the ground if those guys were elsewhere.

What this team has isn't enough to win the East, even with Horford back. More talent is needed. Legit talent. Highlight-level talent. Make opposing coaches lose sleep thinking about that guy talent. Make opposing players skip the trip to Magic City because they have to guard that guy the next night talent.

At this point, I don't care if they have to trade picks and/or players to get him...just get it done...

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benhillboy Grand Master

benhillboy

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We looked at the schedules down the stretch a month ago. The Knicks are hopeless, even while trying to make the playoffs with the national media's backing, so it's a moot point. People downplaying Al's absence saying we wouldn't have been flirting with a second seed all season haven't watched enough ball and/ or done forgot how good he is. I guess you could always boycott outside Phillips about how much you hate 7 straight playoff appearances when they start. Make your voice heard to Ferry.

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buckeye242424 Newbie

buckeye242424

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Bud.

Sit the good players man!!! Damn.

No offense to you Diesel, but I've been saying this for a month. This team is not trying to tank! They're trying to win, and dammit I'm glad. I hope the beat the Pacers tonight. The Knicks already lost....

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Wretch Grand Master

Wretch

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More talent is needed. Legit talent. Highlight-level talent. Make opposing coaches lose sleep thinking about that guy talent. Make opposing players skip the trip to Magic City because they have to guard that guy the next night talent.

At this point, I don't care if they have to trade picks and/or players to get him...just get it done...

^^100% legit right there...

LOL....sometimes I read what you say and I feel like I have this schizophrenic personality that has a secret laptop hidden in my house and is secretly posting when I'm not taking my meds...

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Mdizzle5 Newbie

Mdizzle5

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This is the truth. I don't think you really HAVE to be bad to get good...but, man it's a tough fighting over free agents and hoping that a late 1st rounder blossoms into Rondo or Millsap. As much as people groan about the lottery, man...your chances of finding an impact player outside of the top 10 are like...zero. A lot of those guys, especially in the 2nd round, rarely even play in the NBA. Some never play a single game.

The tough part about rebuilding (I hate the word "tanking") is the uncertainty. You lose all these games, you're a laughing stock, you have no free agent draw...AT ALL...and you basically sit around on eggs waiting for them to hatch. Then there's that ultimate defeating moment...when you realize Chill, Marvin, or Sheldon...really isn't going to pan out.

The flip side of that though is that you still have the asset. That's substantial for me. Teams flip top picks, and swap those kinds of players, all the time for big time talent. Personally, there is nothing better for me than seeing us compete...seriously compete. When Teague broke out and we thought we were gonna upset the Bulls...and when we shocked Boston, that was pure joy for me. Absolute joy and there are few moments in Hawks history that compare for me.

This thing that we're doing now? It's agonizing because there really is no "potential" here. This team is what it is. I had much more fun combing over draft prospects, watching the tourney, arguing over who to draft, and watching the Baby Birds learn to fly...than I do now KNOWING what the outcome of this postseason will be. :(

Um... unfortunately for our Hawks, they're the same laughing stock whether they are the worst team in the league or having a first round exit.

I agree with a lot of the other points that you and others have said. We are in dire need of more talent. I strongly believe that there's more luck needed for this franchise to acquire an actual difference maker or two via the FA than the draft.

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Dejay Proficient

Dejay

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Lol, Wretch. All I'm saying is that I'm tired of being the S.D. Jones of the NBA. Speaking of which, Wrestlemania is today. How many of the thousands in NOLA paid $$$ to see the mid-carders fight in the dark (non-PPV) matches?

That's our Hawks; on the card but never in the main event matches. Never fighting for the big belt. Always around to job to the stars...just like Jones used to do...

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sillent Mentor

sillent

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  • You are confusing being a competitor with being a contender.
    • We have always been a playoff competitor. Historically, more so than all but about 3 franchises (Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, etc.)
      • It has not improved our marketability
      • It has not improved our free agent draw
      • It has not improved the opinion of our franchise
        • Not with casual or die hard NBA fans
        • Not with LOCAL fans
        • Not with the media
        • Not with players
        • Not with coaches
        • Nobody gives a shit.
    • We have never been a contender. Ever.
  • Only one team wins the title, but there are many teams that contend for it.
    • We have never been in the finals.
    • We have never been in the semi-finals.
    • We have never been close to MAKING the semi-finals....except for 1988
      • We're not close now
      • We were not close last year
      • Barring a free agent miracle, we will not be close next year
        • And it doesn't appear that our ownership cares - they are happy with being competitive and making the playoffs.
  • There is one reason why have not been a contender. We do not have this.
    • We suck at getting them in free agency
    • They are almost never drafted outside of picks 1-14

      (where we will pick this year)

    • Without offering the players that keep us "competitive" we don't have a lot to offer in trades.
    • This sort of team "building" methodology leaves us with a very narrow and unconventional path with a laughably low % chance at getting what is REALLY needed here. Which is a star player.
  • I am an Atlanta Hawks Fan
    • I have been a faithful fan since 1985
    • I pay MONEY to support a FREE Hawks fan site
    • I pay MONEY to go watch them play the WORST teams
    • I spend mornings, afternoons, and evenings discussing the team
    • I follow the team in the news
    • I watch the team on television
    • I do not believe that rolling out a "competitive" 1st/2nd round team every damn year is in this franchise's best interest
  • Rather than fumbling around with more meaningless 1st and 2nd round losses, which is doing more damage to our reputation that people realize, I believe that we need to do what EVERYONE ELSE DOES and REBUILD the franchise with raw talent and...
    • Groom it and build a team around it...like OKC or
    • Trade it (like the Celtics or the Clippers)

Naw I think y'all got it confused on what competitive means. At the start of this season you could look at our squad even with Horford and realize we had no real stars and definitely no superstar. We excelled reguardless. Paul Millsap wasn't even the biggest star inU tah which was barely a playoff team if that. When you have people like Kyle Korver and Demarre (I still can't spell his name off top) Carroll being not only our starters but our stars you know you got a real group of guys competing every night. Not a super talented squad that is not living up to their talents like the current Pacers or the Josh Smith/Marvin Williams type talent and squad we've had. Jeff Teague is coming into his own and Paul Millsap has definitely proved his worth as well as Korver and even Demarre but by their selves on another squad I could bet they wouldn't be the biggest star on the squad. They have raised their level of play used their strengths and competed. If Josh played to his full potential he'd be rivaling Lebron. If Marvin played to his full potential he might be rivaling Durant or Carmelo. It sounds crazy hearing it in hindsight because they don't play with all their heart or use their strengths to their advantage. That's what this Hawks team has been doing all year. Competing!!!!

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sillent Mentor

sillent

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It's a difference between having a talented team an a competitive team. Most of our recent years in the playoffs have come from our talent. If we were more competitive we could've beat the the hungry Pacers. We could've beat the Bulls when we had Jamal Crawford and a 2-0 lead. We could have really took these more "competitive" teams to the limit because we had the talent. We competed that first year against the Celtics when they won it all but there after we've just been riding our talent and doing just good enough. BUT THAT IS NOT COMPETING WHEN YOU CAN DO MORE!!! Josh and Teague were murdering the Bulls when Joe and Jamal couldn't get it done but they decided to sway from doing what was needed. I can go so on and so on but on is you can have the most talented team and not win it(like the Heat their 1st big 3 year) or you can compete and exceed expectations. When people expect a squad like ours to stay in 3rd without Horford it's laughable but our expectations rised because our team was competing and full of competitors. Contenders are just that those that are considered to have a good chance but from my standpoint our team looks to have better talent than the current Bulls but they are always contenders because they always compete!!

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noble Explorer

noble

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Hawks can't possibly get it right, regardless of what they do.

If they do drop to 9th place, miss the playoffs and get the 12th

pick instead of 15th, will this really make us that much better?

Or, if we hold on to the 8th place and go into the playoffs, what

will being in the playoffs mean to the young Hawks that remain

here next season and beyond? Don't sell this short. We know

it means a lot to our veteran players to be there. It will mean even

more to our young players.

As concerning the desirability of free agents coming here, will they

be more likely to want to be here because they have the 12th pick

instead of the 15th? A team that couldn't make the playoffs? Or,

would the fact that this Hawk team was in the playoffs be more of

an enticement?

Regardless of what we do we can't possibly do it right, can we?

GO HAWKS !!

Sure we can. Sadly it would take a lot of change and being bad for a season or 2. What they need to do is bring in an elite talent. Be it in the draft or in FA. As it stands we have been to the playoffs for a while now and still no one wants to come here. Part of the problem as we all know is the ownership, but there isn't a lot of pieces here an elite talent wants to play with. Right now there are MAYBE 2 pieces here. Horford and Milsap. While I like Korver and maybe if Schröder can develop there just isn't the piece of a Wade to bring in a Lebron....etc etc. Somehow, someway they need to get an elite talent and everyone knows it.

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