What (exactly) we got for Joe Johnson

[DrReality]

Can we just have Diaw, Rondo and Robin Lopez instead please?

If only......................

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Waiting for the post from YKW about it was a garbage trade that netted the Hawks less than nothing for a perennial All Star, the contract would have become more valuable as time went on, Millsap was signed by letting Josh go, the ASG are cheap and never bothered to put a real team around Joe like saaaaaaay spending 200 million on the roster, Marshon Brooks is the truth already mentioned

I'm sure I'm missing something of course but in summary: Trade bad!

Close . . . but you can add the fact that one of the main reasons why we gave Lou Williams a MLE deal of 4 yrs - 20 million is because of the JJ trade. A player that people now want to give away for a 2nd round pick.

So you can say the JJ trade prompted our beloved GM to add these players:

Korver - via trade exception

Bebe

Moose

Swapped Pick next offseason . . . maybe

2nd round pick in 2017

PLUS

Williams - a MLE level deal to compensate for the loss of JJ's scoring

Cap Relief . . which means nothing if you're afraid to use it on a player.

yea . . . . . let's everybody have a parade in front of Philips. Or better yet, let's call up Mickey Mouse and his friends to do the Nae Nae for this outstanding trade.

Edited June 8, 2014 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Admin]

NOTHING is better than JJ at 20 million. I am so thrilled not to have that albatross of a contract on our books anymore. Praise Ferry!

[yungsta]

Getting rid of JJ allowed us to change our identity and rebuild the roster. After years of watching slow stagnant basketball with the same personnel, that is more valuable than anything.

[MaceCase]

Close . . . but you can add the fact that one of the main reasons why we gave Lou Williams a MLE deal of 4 yrs - 20 million is because of the JJ trade. A player that people now want to give away for a 2nd round pick.

So you can say the JJ trade prompted our beloved GM to add these players:

Korver - via trade exception

Bebe

Moose

Swapped Pick next offseason . . . maybe

2nd round pick in 2017

PLUS

Williams - a MLE level deal to compensate for the loss of JJ's scoring

Cap Relief . . which means nothing if you're afraid to use it on a player.

yea . . . . . let's everybody have a parade in front of Philips. Or better yet, let's call up Mickey Mouse and his friends to do the Nae Nae for this outstanding trade.

You're letting your Ferry haterism/Joe homerism run away again. Bitterness is unbecoming in grown men.

I don't see how we are framing Ferry signing a 6th man at great value somehow being a move forced by Joe's departure either. I'm pretty sure this team would need a 6th man even if Joe was still here. That Louis happened to tear his ACL and hasn't looked comfortable since isn't a detraction against the GM. I mean, the Nets were "prompted" to trade for Joe in order to keep Deron and now people are willing to dump Deron for a 2nd round pick. Does that mean that you are willing to retract the parade you threw for Billy King then?

Last I checked Ferry did use his cap (your aforementioned list of players plus more) but I guess that doesn't count if he doesn't spend it on the specific player that YOU want. I guess you'll rethrow that parade for Billy King for spending 300 million for 1 second round win though. The greatest victory is always in how much you spend and not on who you spend on after all.

[Diesel]

I don't like how this reduces everything down to "draft pick, then current assets". It makes the process in-between look pointless. But that is not the case.

We also might as well put on here that Joe Johnson got us Paul Millsap. Those waived contracts? Yeah, the all contributed to Cap Space and so that Cap Space got us Paul Millsap. BASICALLY TRADED AN ALL-STAR FOR AN ALL-STAR HUH GUYS?!?!?!

You could just as easily attribute Josh Smith to getting us Millsap and say Joe got us Raises.

[Guest]

You could just as easily attribute Josh Smith to getting us Millsap and say Joe got us Raises.

Exactly my point. The flow chart oversimplifies a complex process that shouldn't be simplified.

How did the Hawks acquire Paul Millsap? No draft pick was involved so by this guy's standards it was out of thin air!

[Diesel]

We're trying to make money stretch and talking Flexibility when in all actuality, it gives too much credit.... Joe didn't necessarily give us Millsap.

Let's follow the money:

We've gotten rid of Joe = 21 Million.

We've gotten rid of Marvin = 8 Million.

We've gotten rid of Smoove = 13 Million.

from our 2011 team that's 42 Million dollars.

We've signed Lou Williams = 5.2 Million.

Resigned Teague = 8 Million.

Resigned Korver = 6 Million.

Signed Millsap = 9.5 Million.

Signed DMC = 2.6 Million

Signed Brand = 4 Million.

Signed Ayón = 1.5 Million.

Signed Antić = 1.2 Million.

That's 38 Million... and I didn't add in guys like Cunningham, Jenkins, Dennis, or Martin...

Bottom line is that with all the money that we have sent away, you can't attribute Joe to one specific guy.

Moreover, what is flexibility when we have paid Brand and Williams 9.2 Million last year?

[Buzzard]

We're trying to make money stretch and talking Flexibility when in all actuality, it gives too much credit.... Joe didn't necessarily give us Millsap.

Moreover, what is flexibility when we have paid Brand and Williams 9.2 Million last year?

The flexibility last season equals we were able to still sign Brand after we signed Milsap. The flexibility this year is Brands contract expires Until we are locked into a bunch of long term contracts, we can continue to be flexible.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

The flexibility last season equals we were able to still sign Brand after we signed Milsap. The flexibility this year is Brands contract expires Until we are locked into a bunch of long term contracts, we can continue to be flexible.

Having flexibility means nothing if all we can attract are guys who have one foot out of the league. Brand is past his prime and Lou is not a player that you can build with... that represented 9.2 Million of the flexibility... while the players that make you championship quality is no where to be found.

Here's the deal....

Ferry doesn't draft very well and we suck at attracting major free agents. Do you know what that equation leads to? The Babcock years. We will be good enough to not be in the lottery and bad enough to not get past the second round.

[Buzzard]

Having flexibility means nothing if all we can attract are guys who have one foot out of the league. Brand is past his prime and Lou is not a player that you can build with... that represented 9.2 Million of the flexibility... while the players that make you championship quality is no where to be found.

Here's the deal....

Ferry doesn't draft very well and we suck at attracting major free agents. Do you know what that equation leads to? The Babcock years. We will be good enough to not be in the lottery and bad enough to not get past the second round.

I don't see it this way at all. It is a long term view when it comes to using your cap wisely and building a team. In Ferry's first season with money to spend he attracted the best player production wise vs money spent in free agency last season. He was also able to keep Korver even though the Nets and their billionaire owner courted him right up until the week he signed with us.

You want to bash his picks; so be it. But his draft history in Cleveland was rock solid. No one is perfect; even Presti looks to have made a mistake last season by taking Adams over Olynyk.

[gsuteke]

I really hope Garnett retires

Pierce is UFA

Edited June 8, 2014 by gsuteke

[TheNorthCydeRises]

We're trying to make money stretch and talking Flexibility when in all actuality, it gives too much credit.... Joe didn't necessarily give us Millsap.

Let's follow the money:

We've gotten rid of Joe = 21 Million.

We've gotten rid of Marvin = 8 Million.

We've gotten rid of Smoove = 13 Million.

from our 2011 team that's 42 Million dollars.

We've signed Lou Williams = 5.2 Million.

Resigned Teague = 8 Million.

Resigned Korver = 6 Million.

Signed Millsap = 9.5 Million.

Signed DMC = 2.6 Million

Signed Brand = 4 Million.

Signed Ayón = 1.5 Million.

Signed Antić = 1.2 Million.

That's 38 Million... and I didn't add in guys like Cunningham, Jenkins, Dennis, or Martin...

Bottom line is that with all the money that we have sent away, you can't attribute Joe to one specific guy.

Moreover, what is flexibility when we have paid Brand and Williams 9.2 Million last year?

. . . . and Zaza at five million.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You're letting your Ferry haterism/Joe homerism run away again. Bitterness is unbecoming in grown men.

I don't see how we are framing Ferry signing a 6th man at great value somehow being a move forced by Joe's departure either. I'm pretty sure this team would need a 6th man even if Joe was still here. That Louis happened to tear his ACL and hasn't looked comfortable since isn't a detraction against the GM. I mean, the Nets were "prompted" to trade for Joe in order to keep Deron and now people are willing to dump Deron for a 2nd round pick. Does that mean that you are willing to retract the parade you threw for Billy King then?

Last I checked Ferry did use his cap (your aforementioned list of players plus more) but I guess that doesn't count if he doesn't spend it on the specific player that YOU want. I guess you'll rethrow that parade for Billy King for spending 300 million for 1 second round win though. The greatest victory is always in how much you spend and not on who you spend on after all.

I'm just being real.

It's YOU and others who want to erect a statue outside of Philips for getting rid of JJ, even if that has currently resulted in the Hawks going 82 - 82 the past 2 seasons, with two 1st round losses.

It's YOU and others who believe that the Hawks are in a position of strength compared to the rest of the NBA teams, even if we finished 4th in our own division this year.

It's YOU and others who have given the GM a pass for his draft selections.

And it's going to be YOU and others who will give Little League claps to the GM if we come out of this offseason with minimalistic free agent signings, to protect our "flexibility" for the future.

When you trade a then 6 time All Star, you either need to get the best deal possible you can get . . . or you need to use the money that is purged from the team's roster to create the best team possible. The GM is 0 for 2 in my eyes. You go ahead and celebrate his "accomplishments" though.

When he does something that leads to this team becoming better, I'll give him props.

[Admin]

GBF

[TheNorthCydeRises]

GBF

What does that mean?

[MaceCase]

I'm just being real.

It's YOU and others who want to erect a statue outside of Philips for getting rid of JJ, even if that has currently resulted in the Hawks going 82 - 82 the past 2 seasons, with two 1st round losses.

It's YOU and others who believe that the Hawks are in a position of strength compared to the rest of the NBA teams, even if we finished 4th in our own division this year.

It's YOU and others who have given the GM a pass for his draft selections.

And it's going to be YOU and others who will give Little League claps to the GM if we come out of this offseason with minimalistic free agent signings, to protect our "flexibility" for the future.

When you trade a then 6 time All Star, you either need to get the best deal possible you can get . . . or you need to use the money that is purged from the team's roster to create the best team possible. The GM is 0 for 2 in my eyes. You go ahead and celebrate his "accomplishments" though.

When he does something that leads to this team becoming better, I'll give him props.

Your idea of better is 50 wins. Seriously, while most who rail against Ferry legitimately talk about whether his strategy will lead to a championship or contender status you are the lone sole person who pines for the 09-10 Hawks as the high water mark of judging a GM's success. Of course it escapes you that that 50 win Hawks team suffered a historically bad beat down at the hands of the Magic in the playoffs but oh well, at least they got to 50 wins.

50 wins is not ELITE in this league. 50 wins is a paper accomplishment. While others legitimately discuss how to acquire ELITE players, the guys that win championships, you sit around pouting on your tablet that the GM did not go out of his way to construct a high salaried team of Joe Johnsons, Al Jeffersons and Monta Ellises to go out snag that 50 win brass ring even if such a team has zero chance of ever legitimately contending.

Your problem seems to be that you don't believe that Ferry is enough of a treadmill enthusiast for your liking. Instead of these periodical roster reloads you require your GM go all in on mediocrity. Commit to that 5K instead of just warming up on the damn thing. You're not concerned with wins in May and June, you're not concerned with a star walking through that door, nope, you're concerned with enjoying an 8 game win streak in the middle of January. Ahhhhhhh, now that's an accomplishment worth applauding.

Edited June 9, 2014 by MaceCase

[Diesel]

I don't see it this way at all. It is a long term view when it comes to using your cap wisely and building a team. In Ferry's first season with money to spend he attracted the best player production wise vs money spent in free agency last season. He was also able to keep Korver even though the Nets and their billionaire owner courted him right up until the week he signed with us.

You want to bash his picks; so be it. But his draft history in Cleveland was rock solid. No one is perfect; even Presti looks to have made a mistake last season by taking Adams over Olynyk.

You say longterm view.

Allright, what has Ferry done except get money that has changed the Dynamic that I spoke of... Has he done anything to help us bring in free agents that will make a difference? Has he done anything to improve our draft position?

Without changing either of those two factors, we're back on the treadmill again.

It's just like when we had Lenny.

We had a championship coach, but we couldn't give him enough talent to win. So every year, we watched Lenny take a team out and make them overachieve but in all actuality, they did not have the talent to get any farther than they did.

[Admin]

 

What does that mean?

 

God Bless Ferry^†

 

^†Warden of the South

[Duff_Man]

$21 million per season for Johnson vs $19 million per year for Millsap, Korver and Carroll.

I fail to see the downside in this.