Rate Our Draft

[TheNorthCydeRises]

This is a solid 5 draft. First off, it's ironic that Tavares' first name is Walter, because he's Saer Sene 2.0

I will be highly shocked if he ever suits up for the Hawks, let alone make a contribution off the bench.

As for Adreine Payne, it's not that he's a bad player, because he isn't. I just don't think he has any chance to be a quality starter in the NBA.

He's essentially Pero Antić with hops. The question is, can he be a little more consistent of a shooter than Pero.

And speaking of Pero, this selection may make him expendable.

There are about 5 guys selected below Payne that have a legit chance to become stars. But we chose the "safe" pick.

The GM likes players that used to play like him.

[ngc7]

terrible 1st round pick, How do you guys like this draft. Not one of these guys will do anything. Wasted picks on a great draft class

[BrazilianHawk]

7.

 

Payne: 7. A good player who eventually could start for the Hawks, but it also could mean one of our two best players will be gone sooner rather than later. Supposed not to be DF's plan "A", but still a good player than should fit our system. That was a "ferryfic" pick.

 

Tavares: 9. Intriguing prospect than could never actually play for the Hawks. Being a draft & stash second round pick, it's ok for me. Gets a nine based on size, upside and stashability.

 

Patterson: 6. Could help fill a hole at SG, but I don't see him being any better than John Jenkins. Should ride the pine if actually gets signed to a contract.

[tbhawksfan]

Is the question rating the players talent? How they'll fit on our team?

This draft just reinforces the biggest question that I have; what is Ferry's plan going to produce?

 

If your goal for the Hawks is to win a championship, then it seems like you have to have a plan very similar to a business plan. You have to have finances, to invest, amortize the cost, maximize potential and beat the competitors.

 

Connecting Bball to the business metaphor:

The financing is having the bucks to compete in a competitive market

The investment is in the players, coaches

Amortizing the cost is getting max return on the investment cost

Maxing potential is coaching and systeming the players into champions

 

The key element not mentioned is: timing. There are windows on investments, with different players being on different curves of potential. You have to have a maximum of players peaking in a similar window to be a champion.

 

Drafting for later while trying to win now does not fit into the logic of syncronizing max potential into a window of championship opportunity. I think Ferry knows this and is building a team based on pure business investment priorities i.e. keep the ASG's yearly budget in the green. This is not a championship path.

 

If he suddenly flips some of these young, mediocre assets (see draft position) into talented players that enter into the core of the teams window of opportunity or goes over the lux tax to bring in such players, then I'll clearly revise my analysis of his plan.

 

Nothing against the players. All they can do is try to get better and win. Nothing against the coach. He's good and I love his team ball style though I'd like to see the inside game more. Nothing against Ferry. I think he's capable of being a very good GM. The plan is what I'm questioning. Is it a championship plan?

If he waits for these raw young picks to come in and help our present core; bad plan. If his plan is to bring in good team players on reasonable deals while developing the next core simultainiously by keeping the rooks off the cap (Europe) and bringing in good players on reasonable deals; bad plan. It's cheap and our talent will remein well inferior to the best. It is also quite unlikely that our mid round picks develop better than other teams better picks.

 

Guess it comes down to: does he trade us into a contender or is it just a cheap plan to remain competitive, while drafting to keep fans interested? If he wanted to rebuild, seems he missed the boat so I didn't even propose that. One last idea. How long does Ferry see his plan taking to reach championship level?

[Brotha2ThaNite]

A!

The Hawks scouts is head over hill one of the best.

 

I really love what DF is doing with this team. We might not see the true build until maybe 2 more years but I trully think 2 out of 3 of these guys will be good. The Center is a true project which we won't see his all until 2 years... That's if he pans out.

 

But our scouts and DF aren't just playing golf. THEY ARE PUTTING IN THE WORK!

[tbhawksfan]

A!

The Hawks scouts is head over hill one of the best.

 

I really love what DF is doing with this team. We might not see the true build until maybe 2 more years but I trully think 2 out of 3 of these guys will be good. The Center is a true project which we won't see his all until 2 years... That's if he pans out.

 

But our scouts and DF aren't just playing golf. THEY ARE PUTTING IN THE WORK!

 

Based on what evidence? Are you already convinced that Ferry and his staff are the "best"? Are you basing this on what his players have occomplished? Potential? Inside info?

[DrReality]

Solid 8 given our picks. One key FA signing could be huge

Edited June 27, 2014 by DrReality

[lethalweapon3]

(GRADE: C... with a long-term chance for a B-minus!)

 

Stealing from Fran Fraschilla last night, I joked last night that the Hawks were like the Bruno Caboclo of the NBA. We're always two years away from being two years away. Try the veal.

 

 

But it really is about two years from now. Because last night's draft, for better or worse, was all about this feller.

 

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Our robo-pecced wannabe full-time power forward has two well-functioning arms, two well-functioning legs... and two hopefully well-functioning years under the terms of a very fair contract extension. He will be 30 by the time of his next free agency deal, and there is zero reason not to expect strong production from the Dirkminican well past age 35.

 

When it comes to free agency, Al Horford is decidedly not a salesman, but he's also not going to be easily bought out by the siren songs of Buddyball that are sure to come his way in 2016. If he is kind enough to see this Budzball plan through, he will want to know the team trusts him to finally take over the 4-spot that Josh Smith and Paul Millsap have been keeping Sterno for him all this time. We've got up to one more season of Mayhem PM before 30-year-old Millsap moves on to deservedly greener pastures.

 

If Al elects to stick around, he's got his reserve power forward for the next half-decade already in tow.

 

Danny Ferry is a huge fan of Izzoball. And whether we like it or not, Adreian Payne has been Danny Ferry's guy all along. (side note: @Dolfan23, get ready to auto-correct Adreian for us!) Ferry had no plans on making a lottery-quality pick in 2014... remember his insistence throughout the February Freefall, and even back when Horf went down again, that the goal was to make the playoffs, hell-or-high-water (EDIT: He backed out of that briefly in April, but the Hawks rallied and he hopped back on the Playoffs Train). Payne was supposed to be The Ferrocious One's 20-ish pick.

 

Remember how enthralled we were with 28-year-old Sap finally getting his three-point groove on this season? Having started in his junior year at age 22, Payne is arriving fresh out the box with that skill down pat. Now on a team that doesn't rock the rim terribly often, Payne's dunk contest exploits offer fans promise of more highlights to the Highlight Factory than just "(Insert Name Here) for Threeeeeee!" Having a fairly reliable free throw shooter at the 4-spot never hurts, either.

 

Winding up at 15 instead, had Ferry traded down, he might have missed out (DraftExpress had Payne not getting past 18, for whatever that's worth). Waiting for someone else to get him later wouldn't have netted much more in a trade, and probably would've raised even more ire from us Hawkskeptics ("You swapped a prospect with a high ceiling for a 23-year-old senior? Traded down for what? Cash? That's so Hawks.") So Danny simply took who he's been planning to take all along, reaches-be-damned, immediate needs-be-damned, draft-night grades-be-damned.

 

Like many a Hawks fan, Al also has spoken in the past about the need for more height and length on this team, and, Dios mio, is he about to get it. Plodding seven-foot-three behemoths with condor wingspans and just a modicum of collegiate experience will go Top 3 in any draft ('sup, Hasheem). Plodding seven-foot-three behemoths with condor wingspans that were randomly discovered helping little old ladies reach the top shelves at the WalMart in Vila do Maio usually go around 30th to 45th. Ferry loves himself some ACB, and now he's got that league's top defender from 2014 primed to plug 'n play at the five by 2015-2016 (if not sooner), plus the biggest mofo that league has to offer developing to get Bebe's back in 2016.

 

Even in limited minutes, Walter Tavares helped his Canary Islands team (also starring the great Ben Hansbrough) reach its best ACB regular season finish in its 30-year history, which ain't too shabby for a guy who's just now figuring out what the heck he's doing out there.

 

The Hawks' management and staff are, by their words, committed to player development, and it's with The Germanator and these two guys that the gang in charge will truly be measured. If they pull it off, our Al-Star will have quite the International House of Ballers around him come 2016.

 

While Ferry openly admits to his Izzofetish (he just offered praise, for the umpteenth time, minutes ago on 92.9 FM), he wasn't about to reach up with major trade assets to nab Gary Harris, who went 19th to the Nuggs in the trade with the Bulls. That would've made things too obvious anyway.

 

So instead of turning us into Flintstones South, Ferry went after a much older, taller, stouter version of Harris, one with a crazy-good wingspan for his size, craftier passing, a clutchier (is that even a word) shooting touch and better range.

 

Lamar Patterson will shed some pounds through the preseason, as it could help him improve his subpar lateral quickness to deal with the shiftier SGs around the league. But his long arms coupled with a strong base can help him keep ballhandlers shielded around the perimeter, also picking off passes and keying transitions.

 

Patterson's defensive and passing skills put a nice amount of pressure on the first draft pick of the Ferry Era, who's headed for a team option year in 2015. Even before his latest back/leg injuries that he's returning from for next season, the question remains for John Jenkins: if his long-range shot isn't falling, what else can he do for his team? Johnny Ca$h displayed good chemistry in 2013 with Mike Scott, who developed without him last season and may not be back next year, but that's about it so far. If Jenkins doesn't (or can't) show-and-prove in 2014-15, Patterson could be waiting in the wings to make Ferry's first missed pick as a Hawks GM a distant memory. To be fair to Ferry, though, he wouldn't have missed by much -- Miles Plumlee, maybe? PJ3? Khris Middleton?

 

Walking in the door, Patterson is already a better defensive option at the 2-spot than Lou or Johnny. If he continues to develop well, Horford could eventually be part of a sounder defensive crew from 2-through-5 with Patterson, DMC, himself w/ Bebe at the 5 or w/ Sap or Payne holding it down at the 4. Continued improvement in defensive play from Jeff and Schro would only sweeten the deal.

 

I know I personally wanted Project Patt at #43. Ferry one-upped my desires by grabbing a project center and then getting my guy anyway, in exchange for a future second-rounder to the Buckaroos, at #48.

 

~lw3

Edited June 27, 2014 by lethalweapon3

[Gray Mule]

Remember, this is not the end of our pre season.  It's just the beginning

We knew, going into the draft, some here would love it and some would

hate it with a passion.  That has proved out to be true.

 

Here's my thoughts:

 

Adreian Payne, our first round pick, will be a replacement for one of the

players that we do not resign and will get some playing time this season.

Probably will be an upgrade to whoever he replaces.  Our GM says that

he really likes this player.  That is enough of an excuse for some here to

hate him, although I don't know why.  Apparently, he has a good basketball IQ.

 

Walter Tavares is literally a giant of a man.  He stays over seas, therefore he

doesn't cost us any money, roster space or doesn't eat into any of our cap

space.  He may come here later and do well or we may never see him in

a Hawks uniform.  He's a gamble.  You take a chance.  Can't win the lottery

if you don't have a ticket.  He's that to us.

 

Lamar Patterson.  We needed a shooting guard.  He's a shooting guard, therefore

he fills a real need.  Apparently, he's Bud's kind of player.  That's good.  He might

eventually become a starter but right now he may replace someone who we don't

resign that's on our current roster.  He's got that three point talent, a good pick

and roll guy, a great passer and has a good basketball IQ.

 

Free  agency and all those potential trades are still before us.  It's going to be

an interesting summer for Hawks fans.

 

Draft wasn't perfect, but I'll give it a nine!

[AHF]

I waffled between a 6 and a 7 for the draft and ended up going for a 7 (optimistic).

 

Payne seems like a high floor, reasonable ceiling player which isn't too bad at #15.  In this draft, however, there will absolutely be numerous starters picked after Payne so for this pick to really pay off he needs to develop into a starter quality talent.  This is particularly true since he does not fill a big need for this team.  We already have Sap and Scott at stretch PF.  Unless Payne is going to play center, and I haven't seen anything to make me think he will, this does not address our needs at C/SG/SF at all.  At the risk of repeating myself, the age 23 cuts both ways - less development ahead of him but enough proven development to know the kid should be a regular part of the rotation this year.  If we have a trade for Sap in the works, this gets an after-the-fact bump for addressing immediate need.  Otherwise, I neither hate nor love the pick but will look forward to seeing Payne play in Atlanta.

 

I love the Walter Tavarez pick.  He may never play in the NBA but a second pick with the potential to be a starting NBA center is a worthwhile gamble.  Guys like Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, etc. have been huge boons for their teams coming out of the second round. Hopefully Tavarez is ready to follow in a few years.  The cost of a second round pick is low enough that this is a great gamble, IMO (particularly after McDaniels, Early, etc. all had flown off the board).

 

I don't mind flipping 2nd round picks to take a stab at Patterson.  I know little about him but the idea of dealing a future 2nd rounder for one in this draft makes a lot of sense -- this draft is unusually deep and there is more value in the 2nd than in a normal draft.  Hopefully he will pan out but we'll just see.

[Q45T]

i voted 7 because I've known that Payne was a good player for a couple of weeks now but I just wanted a SG or SF.  As far as Tavares goes I don't know a damn thing about him and he may never play in the NBA.

[PlayaPat420]

I would have rather us gotten James Young over Payne.  As has been said, he's a decent player and great story but he's not the wing player I thought we should have taken.  Maybe Patterson can step up and do some things but I would have much rather took a slight "risk" on Young's skill and potential over another stretch PF. 

 

 

[AHF]

Consensus as of 11:16 a.m.:  7.17 (48 votes)

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Based on what evidence? Are you already convinced that Ferry and his staff are the "best"? Are you basing this on what his players have occomplished? Potential? Inside info?

 

This is a good question.   Remember, here are the GM's draft picks:

 

1st round:  John Jenkins, Dennis Schröder, Lucas Nogueira, Adreine Payne

 

2nd round:  Mike Scott, Raul Neto, James Ennis, Walter Tavares, Lamar Patterson

 

Who out of these 3 draft classes can even be a starter for this team in 2 or 3 years?   Who of these guys can even make as big of an impact as Josh Smith did . . . a #17 selection? 

 

I thought if the Hawks didn't resign Korver, that Jenkins would be handed the SG spot as a starter.  Instead, not only was Korver resigned, Lou Williams pretty much locked down the backup spot.  And Jenkins' back problems hasn't helped the situation at all.  As long as Lou is on this team, along with Mack, where is Jenkins going to get his minutes?

 

With Dennis, I think he may have the most potential to be a starting PG in the future.  But based on his rookie campaign, he looks to be overwhelmed physically in this league, especially on the defensive end, which was looked at as a strength of his.  Honestly, I would be all for not resigning Shelvin Mack, who I think is a solid reserve guard, just to give Dennis the minutes to develop at PG.

 

Bebe may or may not be given the chance to get minutes at center this year.   But like with Dennis, at some point we're going to have to see what this dude can do on the NBA level.   Right now, these are our centers on the roster

 

Horford

Antić

Nogueira

Payne . . . possibly

 

If this is our group, Antić needs to go ASAP and let those other 2 get minutes.   Antić will be 32 years old going into this season, and really isn't the future of this team.  So no need to keep him on this roster, while keeping the two younger guys from getting the playing time they need to develop.

 

One of my main problems with the GM, is his unwillingness to commit one way or the other.  He doesn't want to completely tear down the team and rebuild it with higher quality draft picks by being bad for a few years  . . . ala UTAH.   But as he tries to stay competitive, he doesn't field or bring in players who can make the Hawks a highly competitive team . . . especially against good squads.

 

Fans are leaning on us pushing the #1 seed Pacers to 7 games . . despite the Pacers only being 16 - 14 after the All-Star break.  We were 13 - 18 after the All-Star break, by the way . . . but people forget that.

 

Potential means nothing if these kids can't even get on the floor . . either by them playing themselves onto the floor, or being flat out given the minutes to put them on the floor.

[noble]

I like the players just not the positions. I think we needed different wing help which we didn't get. I think this was a middle of the pack draft at about a 5 or 6.

[Guest]

Since I have no real clue about these guys (except what I've learned on the squawk) - I will give the draft a 9.5 just because our 1st rounder wasn't a 'draft and stash'.  

I will rate the picks midway into the 2014/15 season.

[sturt]

Well, I'd went on-record as saying that I thought Nurkic, Payne and Payton will be stars in the league eventually... those were my Tier 1 guys. I preferred Nurkic over Payne but only because he's a better fit for us right now, pre-free-agency. I have to grant some latitude that, as others here have indicated, there's plenty off-season left, and certainly we could see Sap or Horf moved still yet.

 

So, I have to give us a 10 on Payne... it doesn't get any better than having a guy you've projected to be big-time selected at #15.

 

And I have to echo the thoughts of others here... taking a flier on Taveras and dealing for Patterson are just sound decisions, to my mind. 10 and 10.

 

So, let's seeeeeeee.... my math might be rusty, but I believe (10+10+10)/2 =10.

 

Would I have been happier if Saric had fallen to us?

 

Yeah. That's the only caveat. But it's the difference between the waiter bringing me t-bone steak instead of lobster... in the end, they're both too satisfying to complain that I didn't get the other.

[Guest]

Well, I'd went on-record as saying that I thought Nurkic, Payne and Payton will be stars in the league eventually... those were my Tier 1 guys. I preferred Nurkic over Payne but only because he's a better fit for us right now, pre-free-agency. I have to grant some latitude that, as others here have indicated, there's plenty off-season left, and certainly we could see Sap or Horf moved still yet.

 

So, I have to give us a 10 on Payne... it doesn't get any better than having a guy you've projected to be big-time selected at #15.

 

And I have to echo the thoughts of others here... taking a flier on Taveras and dealing for Patterson are just sound decisions, to my mind. 10 and 10.

 

So, let's seeeeeeee.... my math might be rusty, but I believe (10+10+10)/2 =10.

 

Would I have been happier if Saric had fallen to us?

 

Yeah. That's the only caveat. But it's the difference between the waiter bringing me t-bone steak instead of lobster... in the end, they're both too satisfying to complain that I didn't get the other.

@sturt You sure about that one?  

Edited June 27, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[sturt]

Yikes... hehe... well, no, you may have thought it was a typo, but it's not... you've heard of "giving 110%"... well, that was just my way of saying that I think this draft is off-the-chart, 15 out of 10!!!! ;)

 

(More seriously, nice catch... I need to proofread my edits a little more carefully, eh?)

[Admin]

Yikes... hehe... well, no, you may have thought it was a typo, but it's not... you've heard of "giving 110%"... well, that was just my way of saying that I think this draft is off-the-chart, 15 out of 10!!!!

 

(More seriously, nice catch... I need to proofread my edits a little more carefully, eh?)

 

That's some Thundering Math ya got there @sturt