Which Former Hawks would you allow to come back and retire a Hawk?

[Admin]

Well......what are we talking about Dolf?  You said Joe wasn't a true Hawk.  He didn't care about the fans or the team.  All he cared about was himself and money...and bitches.  That there is the very definition of an asshat athlete - a bad person.

 

He didn't bow to the crowd or kiss babies before every game, but when the fans got behind him....he fed off that energy and played with passion.  He played hard, never complained, never talked about himself, never gave the coach or his teammates shit...  He never talked about money or contracts.  I never heard of him wooing the women and the only car I've ever seen him in is that big ass F150.

 

JJ was a quiet dude, looking for a place to prove himself, that chose a lowly rebuilding franchise...and he did nothing but work his ass off for us.  I understand you don't care for him, but the image you paint of him is just not Joe at all.  

 

You and I will have to disagree. I don't believe it makes him a bad person because he only cares about himself, $$ and bitches. It just doesn't make me a fan of his or him a true Hawk in my eyes. That's not enough to "not" make him a true Hawk mind you, I just don't feel like he is one and that's just part of the reason. 

 

Did he really work his ass off? Tell me something he got better at over his years? He never elevated his game beyond what he was when he got here. He never elevated this team beyond what it was. Did he have some big moments? Sure he did. But he had a lot of bad ones too and many a disappearing act. 

 

Joe was just a guy who went to work and collected the biggest paycheck he could and that's what mattered at the end of the day and actions speak louder than words when it comes to that.

[ATLHawks3]

These plays cemented my status of being a die-hard for this team..

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz8o8VgtAe4

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdzsExumPhA

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nheRrtNOcnI

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmqXWQTicUY

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRymj8S60KQ

 

I wouldn't be mad if they finished their careers here.

[Wretch]

You and I will have to disagree. I don't believe it makes him a bad person because he only cares about himself, $$ and bitches. It just doesn't make me a fan of his or him a true Hawk in my eyes. That's not enough to "not" make him a true Hawk mind you, I just don't feel like he is one and that's just part of the reason. 

 

Did he really work his ass off? Tell me something he got better at over his years? He never elevated his game beyond what he was when he got here. He never elevated this team beyond what it was. Did he have some big moments? Sure he did. But he had a lot of bad ones too and many a disappearing act. 

 

Joe was just a guy who went to work and collected the biggest paycheck he could and that's what mattered at the end of the day and actions speak louder than words when it comes to that.

 

Bitches and hoes...  Dude, where are you getting this? lol I never heard any rumors, saw any pictures, read any reports of Joe being interested in anything besides basketball.

 

Because he never elevated his game or carried the team beyond the 2nd round, that makes him less of a Hawk or a lazy/non-hardworking player?  I guess that makes Deke the same since he never learned to score consistently.  Smitty too who was pretty solid all those years, but never did anything really different.  Mookie too since he never became the facilitator we needed (and loved jacking up 3's).  And Hawks history is full of non-Hawks considering NOBODY ever got us out of the 2nd round.  Joe is as much to blame as is the whole team...but nobody moreso than Mike Woodson, Billy Knight, and the ASG.

 

...and as far as the "disappearing act."  You do realize that Woody's predictable offense basically allowed teams to send waves of defenders at Joe like a glove waiting on a ball.  I remember triple-teams vs. the Celtics...and with a rim protector like Dwight waiting should Joe get to the rim, you'd have to expect off nights.  Yet he still managed to score and we still managed to build the foundations of this current playoff streak.

 

I'm not trying to defend JJ like he was some kind of savior or under-appreciated superstar, but a lot of the hate he gets is completely unjustified.  Joe gave us a lot of good games and a lot of good memories.  We'll have to agree to disagree...because we're clearly not seeing the same player.

[Wretch]

These plays cemented my status of being a die-hard for this team..

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz8o8VgtAe4

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdzsExumPhA

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nheRrtNOcnI

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmqXWQTicUY

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRymj8S60KQ

 

I wouldn't be mad if they finished their careers here.

 

Watching these clips, all I can think about is what a teammate hating, fan hating, disinterested, lazy, selfish player that Joe Johnson is.... {/sarcasm}

[Admin]

Bitches and hoes...  Dude, where are you getting this? lol I never heard any rumors, saw any pictures, read any reports of Joe being interested in anything besides basketball.

 

Because he never elevated his game or carried the team beyond the 2nd round, that makes him less of a Hawk or a lazy/non-hardworking player?  I guess that makes Deke the same since he never learned to score consistently.  Smitty too who was pretty solid all those years, but never did anything really different.  Mookie too since he never became the facilitator we needed (and loved jacking up 3's).  And Hawks history is full of non-Hawks considering NOBODY ever got us out of the 2nd round.  Joe is as much to blame as is the whole team...but nobody moreso than Mike Woodson, Billy Knight, and the ASG.

 

...and as far as the "disappearing act."  You do realize that Woody's predictable offense basically allowed teams to send waves of defenders at Joe like a glove waiting on a ball.  I remember triple-teams vs. the Celtics...and with a rim protector like Dwight waiting should Joe get to the rim, you'd have to expect off nights.  Yet he still managed to score and we still managed to build the foundations of this current playoff streak.

 

I'm not trying to defend JJ like he was some kind of savior or under-appreciated superstar, but a lot of the hate he gets is completely unjustified.  Joe gave us a lot of good games and a lot of good memories.  We'll have to agree to disagree...because we're clearly not seeing the same player.

 

If you want to have a foggy memory regarding Joe then by all means go for it, but I haven't forgotten. And I don't have the energy to discuss him anymore as I truly don't care about Joe at all. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Bitches and hoes...  Dude, where are you getting this? lol I never heard any rumors, saw any pictures, read any reports of Joe being interested in anything besides basketball.

 

Because he never elevated his game or carried the team beyond the 2nd round, that makes him less of a Hawk or a lazy/non-hardworking player?  I guess that makes Deke the same since he never learned to score consistently.  Smitty too who was pretty solid all those years, but never did anything really different.  Mookie too since he never became the facilitator we needed (and loved jacking up 3's).  And Hawks history is full of non-Hawks considering NOBODY ever got us out of the 2nd round.  Joe is as much to blame as is the whole team...but nobody moreso than Mike Woodson, Billy Knight, and the ASG.

 

...and as far as the "disappearing act."  You do realize that Woody's predictable offense basically allowed teams to send waves of defenders at Joe like a glove waiting on a ball.  I remember triple-teams vs. the Celtics...and with a rim protector like Dwight waiting should Joe get to the rim, you'd have to expect off nights.  Yet he still managed to score and we still managed to build the foundations of this current playoff streak.

 

I'm not trying to defend JJ like he was some kind of savior or under-appreciated superstar, but a lot of the hate he gets is completely unjustified.  Joe gave us a lot of good games and a lot of good memories.  We'll have to agree to disagree...because we're clearly not seeing the same player.

 

Also . . . the best PG that Joe ever played with, was the playoff version of Jeff Teague back in 2011, when they pushed the Bulls to 6 games.  For most of JJ's tenure in Atlanta, HE was the point guard.  HE was the guy who had to be Lebron James lite, because there were no other playmakers on the team.  Bibby did it for one year, then basically became a small shooting guard.

 

As for JJ and his not caring for the fans comment, I have that youtube clip bookmarked, for every time some one wants to bring it up.  Here is the quote in its full context.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u01z0bbfPXg

[Ruckus]

Joe was a great player and I'm not mad at him for taking the money. Anybody would have done that. But let's be honest, he doesn't care about Atlanta at all.

[Diesel]

That does not sound right at all.

 

Milwaukee did not have the cap space to sign a max free agent. They were able to sign Bobby Simmons to a deal that started at $8m and also brought in some low level players like Mo Williams. For the Bucks to sign Joe, they would have had to not sign any of those guys and renounce Michael Redd. Joe to Milwaukee was never a serious conversation. I think you are confused with Larry Hughes and Milwaukee.

 

When Joe wouldn't sign with them, they signed Michael Redd to a Max Deal.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Diesel

[BrazilianHawk]

Zaza, of course, and Joe, for wanting to be a Hawk in the early stages of his career.

[Guest]

When Joe wouldn't sign with them, they signed Michael Redd to a Max Deal.

As I said, that's wrong. And you linked to an article that did not mention Joe, unless you're referring to Joe Smith.

Milwaukee didn't have the cap space to go for Joe. You're making Milwaukee shit up again.

[Guest]

As I said, that's wrong. And you linked to an article that did not mention Joe, unless you're referring to Joe Smith.

Milwaukee didn't have the cap space to go for Joe. You're making Milwaukee shit up again.

@Diesel is mixing up his dates, 2005 was when Joe signed with us, same year that Redd signed with Bucks. When Joe resigned with us in 2010, Redd was still under contract with Bucks.

[Guest]

@Diesel is mixing up his dates, 2005 was when Joe signed with us, same year that Redd signed with Bucks. When Joe resigned with us in 2010, Redd was still under contract with Bucks.

The Bucks could sign Redd to that extra year because of bird rights. I'm not sure if he's mixing up dates, players, or outright lying and got caught. Really doesn't matter.

The only reason I remember this so well is because there wasn't another team out there willing to give Joe a max deal. Even Phoenix, they bluffed BK sooooo bad. So there we were, BK was smart enough to see Joe was a max player but too stupid to see how much he overpaid and created a monstrous team that didn't fit. BK is the devil.

[Duff_Man]

That Joe Johnson video above is why nobody should ever care about athletes being interviewed. All they do is spout nothing cliches that are just talking in circles. Well, except for the "we don't care if they show up" part. That was dickish.

 

We have a team looking at winning around 60 games and people want to argue about Joe effing Johnson? Go to a Nets board until he retires and then bring this crap up. This looks like an "I'm always so right and you're not" nostalgia tour for the usual suspects.

[MaceCase]

To be quite honest, Joe never had the personality to move the needle in Atlanta for much of anyone to give a damn about him retiring at barely a fraction of the not great player that he was to begin with. I don't give a damn about "gave to the community" which is quickly becoming the "I can't be racist, I have a black friend" of the Squawk, his name never rang throughout the streets beyond whatever strippers or orphans he saved.

Zaza on the other hand despite being not even half of the player that most of those other guys were is probably the second greatest cultural icon the team has to offer since Nique. Sad in a way but still the best choice.

[Diesel]

As I said, that's wrong. And you linked to an article that did not mention Joe, unless you're referring to Joe Smith.

Milwaukee didn't have the cap space to go for Joe. You're making Milwaukee shit up again.

 

Nobody making stuff up.  Joe originally was made a trade offer by us that same week.  7-11-2005.     He had to wait through our BS til August to be traded for.

Check your facts before you accuse me of anything.  YOU SAID that Red would have had to be renounced.  We orginally traded for Joe a few days after they signed Redd.  They signed Redd because Joe didn't want to play for them and they were afraid that Phoenix would match.  Joe wanted to play for us.  So much so that he waited through our Belkin mess and then he told Robert Sarver not to match him when we got our Belkin Mess straight.  Fanatic, you shouldn't have to make up stuff or try to disrespect me if we don't agree but these are the facts.

[Diesel]

@Diesel is mixing up his dates, 2005 was when Joe signed with us, same year that Redd signed with Bucks. When Joe resigned with us in 2010, Redd was still under contract with Bucks.

 

Uhm..  That's what we were talking about?  2005 not 2010.  The original statement was that the only reason Joe originally signed with us was the money.  However, I was making the point that if it were about the money, he could have signed with Milwaukee or stayed in Phoenix.  Joe was excited about coming here and being a lead dog and being a PG(?). 

[Diesel]

To be quite honest, Joe never had the personality to move the needle in Atlanta for much of anyone to give a damn about him retiring at barely a fraction of the not great player that he was to begin with. I don't give a damn about "gave to the community" which is quickly becoming the "I can't be racist, I have a black friend" of the Squawk, his name never rang throughout the streets beyond whatever strippers or orphans he saved.

Zaza on the other hand despite being not even half of the player that most of those other guys were is probably the second greatest cultural icon the team has to offer since Nique. Sad in a way but still the best choice.

 

 

It's funny that people say that Joe couldn't MOVE the needle... However, this team we have now has NOBODY that moves the needle... yet the city is behind them.  It's not about moving the needle, it's about production.   Joe Produced.  When you look at all the messed up parts that we put with Joe for him to have been a 5 time allstar with us shows that PEOPLE saw that what made us successful was him... Even if Fans couldn't see it.

[Guest]

Uhm.. That's what we were talking about? 2005 not 2010. The original statement was that the only reason Joe originally signed with us was the money. However, I was making the point that if it were about the money, he could have signed with Milwaukee or stayed in Phoenix. Joe was excited about coming here and being a lead dog and being a PG(?).

I went back and re-read and realized that.

[Wretch]

Also . . . the best PG that Joe ever played with, was the playoff version of Jeff Teague back in 2011, when they pushed the Bulls to 6 games.  For most of JJ's tenure in Atlanta, HE was the point guard.  HE was the guy who had to be Lebron James lite, because there were no other playmakers on the team.  Bibby did it for one year, then basically became a small shooting guard.

 

As for JJ and his not caring for the fans comment, I have that youtube clip bookmarked, for every time some one wants to bring it up.  Here is the quote in its full context.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u01z0bbfPXg

 

I remember now...and this is why I never thought much of it.  He was responding to a question about the fans booing the team...and I like I said earlier, his response was that the TEAM had a job to do and they weren't too concerned about the lack of support.  This one comment gets blown into "Joe only cares about himself, money, cars, and women."

 

Ridiculous.

 

Joe was a great player and I'm not mad at him for taking the money. Anybody would have done that. But let's be honest, he doesn't care about Atlanta at all.

 

When he was here, I'd say he cared about Atlanta and his team.  Now that he's in BKN, I'm sure his focus is trying to help that team win.  Beyond that, I don't see how people can keep saying he didn't care about the Hawks.  He wasn't the primary scoring option we needed, but I don't understand why people hate on him for that.  The teams were built wrong and our offensive gameplan was HORRIBLE.  Billy Knight, Rick Sund, and the A$G built those teams - that's not on Joe.  Woody ran that predictable offense whereby decent coaches could simply throw 2 or 3 defenders at Joe on offense and wait on JSmove to brick it on the rotation.  That's not on Joe.  On defense, we had to cover up Bibby and we switched EVERYTHING...and it allowed coaches to simply dial up mismatches.  That's not on Joe.

 

Joe's biggest problem, and why people hate on him, was the contract.  That's it...and there isn't a single person on this board that wouldn't have signed it.  Am I mad we traded him?  Not at all.  Do I wish we could trade for him?  No. Am I trying to say he was better than he was?  No.  All I'm saying is that he image some people want to paint of him is ridiculous and far fetched.  That people are looking for somewhere to put the blame for our playoff failures - which I think is more on coaching and management.

 

 

That Joe Johnson video above is why nobody should ever care about athletes being interviewed. All they do is spout nothing cliches that are just talking in circles. Well, except for the "we don't care if they show up" part. That was dickish.

 

We have a team looking at winning around 60 games and people want to argue about Joe effing Johnson? Go to a Nets board until he retires and then bring this crap up. This looks like an "I'm always so right and you're not" nostalgia tour for the usual suspects.

 

The thread is about which former Hawk would you want to come back and retire a Hawk.  Not necessarily about Joe.  Though, I'm sure if someone were to come in here and say "ZaZa was garbage and was a locker room cancer," there would be someone to step up and defend him.  I have no issues with Joe being traded to NJ.  I really don't have an argument for people who want to trash his game.  But I think it's ridiculous to put coaching and management decisions on him and then act like Joe was this materialistic asshat who was the source of our issues.  It boggles my mind how people can see it like that.  Makes no sense.

[MaceCase]

It's funny that people say that Joe couldn't MOVE the needle... However, this team we have now has NOBODY that moves the needle... yet the city is behind them. It's not about moving the needle, it's about production. Joe Produced. When you look at all the messed up parts that we put with Joe for him to have been a 5 time allstar with us shows that PEOPLE saw that what made us successful was him... Even if Fans couldn't see it.

No, he was never once selected by the PEOPLE so the PEOPLE never felt that what made the team successful was him. No, 14 guys that had to fill a mandatory quota of guards isn't a greater amount of PEOPLE than the ones you are actually asking to give a damn about him donning a Hawks jersey again.

And you are absolutely wrong about no one on the current team moving the needle. Kyle has had more pieces, interviews and publicity done on him than Joe has had his entire tenure in the LEAGUE. He's produced more quotables from a single interview than Joe has from the entirety of the interviews he's ever mumbled through. "The Streak" ring a bell? I don't recall if that got any pub locally or nationally. I can't remember any clamor for Joe to participate in anything on All Star weekend either, certainly remember groans though when he did.

This current group has more nicknames than Joe had dribble moves. You've invented half of them on your own which is still half more than you did for your beloved Joe. By your standard, not one, not two, not three but four were selected to the All Star games. The quietest of the group has a 40 foot tall 3D poster of himself and promotions to spend the day with him and most of this was BEFORE they were on route to franchise history. To say that they don't move the needle is comical and at least they've done it without making any "Worst Of" lists or having to insult the ones that support them the most.

The irony of this is that YOU tried to disown perhaps the greatest Hawk of ALL TIME because he didn't connect with the city but now Joe should because of production? Surely you jest.