Bud wants "HIS GUYS" back

[Cheese]

Have Grant Hill wine and dine all of them until we sign someone.

 

lol, nobody cares about Grant Hill   

[Cheese]

You mean like how dangerous it's been to have Popovich in that role over in SA?

 

I don't mean to be a jerk, but frankly, it's a little jerk-ish to me that people could presume they know better than Bud... AT LEAST wait and be critical when there's some evidence that he doesn't know what the hell he's doing... until then, it's like you're being critical just to be critical... really it is.

 

He has made two moves.  He dumped a good prospect (Payne) for very little in return.  He dumped a decent draft pick in a great draft in exchange for a bad player.  Both moves look amateurish on the surface.  He also didn't make any moves at the trade deadline to help put the team over the top in a season when the Eastern Conference was ripe for the picking.

 

So, he's 0 for 3 so far.  Until he makes a good move, it's difficult to presume he knows what he's doing.

[AHF]

Didn't mean to post it twice. All I know is that if the Spurs can sign both LMA and Leonard we can figure it out. Why do cap rules only apply to us?

 

Same rules apply to both teams.  The difference is in the position of the teams not the rules that apply to them.

 

Both SA and ATL are under the cap.  With Leonard, they have his Bird rights so they can wait and sign him for the max after they have filled up their cap space.  He is also a RFA so there is no real risk of losing him elsewhere because they will make him a max qualifying offer if necessary.  With Sap and DMC, we have early bird rights.  Those are irrelevant for DMC because his value will be well in excess of that amount.  With Sap, they could help us sign him over the cap for up to $16.5M (roughly) so we are better to wait and sign him after we fill the rest of our space above his cap  hold.  The downside for that is that he is an UFA so if he chooses to go elsewhere we lose him without any recourse.

 

SA also has Duncan and Manu who have signed sub-market deals to give the team more flexibility and are expected to do so again.  Duncan was better than any player on the Hawks entire roster in the playoffs last season but he will sign for less than either DMC or Sap.

 

We will enjoy some of these things like Dennis as a RFA and Bird rights to Horford, but they don't help us this summer.

[sturt]

He has made two moves.  He dumped a good prospect (Payne) for very little in return.  He dumped a decent draft pick in a great draft in exchange for a bad player.  Both moves look amateurish on the surface.  He also didn't make any moves at the trade deadline to help put the team over the top in a season when the Eastern Conference was ripe for the picking.

 

So, he's 0 for 3 so far.  Until he makes a good move, it's difficult to presume he knows what he's doing.

 

With all due respect...

 

The measure of his work is not what baseline or sturt or anyone else thinks of his player moves. The measure is and will always be the bottom-line... the wins and losses, and did you improve on your post-season over what you did before?

 

And, too, btw, knowing what we know of the SA culture, we can't know that he was or was not supportive of, or even the lead influence in other moves that Ferry made.

[Cheese]

The measure is and will always be the bottom-line... the wins and losses, and did you improve on your post-season over what you did before?

 

 

That's silly.  If you're rating a GM, you'd give the Portland GM a big positive grade for picking Brandon Roy at that spot in that draft, despite the fact that it didn't work out.  He did a great job identifying talent.

 

We just had two consecutive talent-laden drafts for the first time in eons.  Budcox got virtually nothing out of those drafts.  I hope there is a bigger plan, like signing Hardaway gives us the cap room to sign a stud.  

[Peoriabird]

He has made two moves.  He dumped a good prospect (Payne) for very little in return.  He dumped a decent draft pick in a great draft in exchange for a bad player.  Both moves look amateurish on the surface.  He also didn't make any moves at the trade deadline to help put the team over the top in a season when the Eastern Conference was ripe for the picking.

 

So, he's 0 for 3 so far.  Until he makes a good move, it's difficult to presume he knows what he's doing.

He's actually made 4 moves...Sign Austin Daye to a 2 year contract and gave Pero a qualifying offer

[Diesel]

I don't think you actually read what I wrote.

 

Let's assume DMC and Sap repeat what they did last year exactly.  

 

Last year Sap earned $9.5M and DMC earned 2.4M.  Let's assume the market values that performance at $16M and $12M respectively.

 

That means that we paid $11.9M last year to get $28M of performance.  This  year we will pay $28M to get that $28M of performance.

 

In the big picture, champions always have some guys who are significantly outperforming their salary.   It is what separates them from the pack.  Frequently, that is a superstar whose value is capped by the maximum salary.  Lebron on the free market might get $40M.  Instead, Miami paid him $19M at his highest.  That is a huge amount of extra value which makes it much easier for them to construct a contender roster because you are starting from a point where you are way ahead of the curve in terms of bang for your buck.

 

We will be more challenged going forward if we are staying with our core because we have had a number of guys outperforming their deals.  Arguably every single starter last season outperformed their deal.  DMC and Sap won't provide that kind of performance to pay leverage next season.  Horf will be up for a big raise the next year which will dilute his leverage, etc.

 

We are going to have to make smart decisions to win a championship and that will be a challenge for Bud to add to this core when the core will cost more every year.

 

That was my point.  The only thing I said about whether we can repeat last year's performance is that I still have optimism for next year because we were elite when healthy and I think there is value in continuity which we will have between our starters , some of our bench guys and Bud.

 

Not sure where you came up with the rest of that.

 

This is a worthless argument.  It totally ignores championship teams who seek to resign their own players and then go on to repeat. (Lakers, Bulls, Pistons anyone).

 

However, let me use a more current example.  The Spurs.  When they lost to the Cavs in 2013,  This is how SI judged their offseason moves.

 

 

Grade: B. The Spurs didn't do anything flashy, but they were a good enough team to hold course.

 

CBS also gave a B+.

 

Overall grade and accomplishments: B+

What the Spurs have is trust. They've accomplished so much and done things so well that no matter what, we all trust that they're making good moves. And while Splitter seems like he got too much money and Ginobili at $14 million feels like a lot, especially with how washed up he looked at times during the Finals, the Spurs have equity with us. They've rarely been wrong, so they get the benefit of the doubt.

 

The only thing that they really did was bring their players up to their "fair market" price and traded out Neal for Bellinili.

 

However, they were hoisting the championship up.  Regardless of if their players were outperforming their deals or not.

[Plainview1981]

No the doom and gloom of your post was saying first or second round exit.   We just got back from the ECF.  We won our 2nd round series in 6 and we were injured at that point.  People say Wall was injured but I counted him in most of their games and he contributed strongly after the injury.  We took the best that Washington could give and we beat them in 6.   As I look around the East right now, I see Miami and Milwaukee getting better.  I see Chicago maybe remaining the same.  I see Washington with Pierce.. maybe falling back and Toronto probably falling back as well.   What team is going to knock us out in the first or second round? The Nets?  The Hornets? 

Come on.  The Gloom and Doom is your acceptance of something that is not based on reality but based on just being a doubter in the Hawks.

 

The road to the ECF was about as easy as it could get. You can't count on that happening again.

 

The Hawks aren't winning the eastern conference next year and they'll proably run into Cleveland before the ECF next year and they will lose. There is nothing wrong with thinking the Hawks will not get back to the 3rd round. They barely got there this past year.

[Plainview1981]

Pop quiz...

Who were the top teams in the Regular season  in the East?

Who were the two teams that met in the ECF?

 

Answer to both:  Hawks and the Cavs.

 

Who were the top teams in the Regular season  in the West?

Who were the two teams that met in the WCF?

Answer to both:  Warriors and the Rockets.

 

The playoffs are more focused than the regular season, however, the outcomes show that the regular season is a pretty good predictor of who the best teams in the conference are.

Sure, there are times when you have upsets.. but that is because Basketball is based on Matchups.

 

The Hawks beat 2 crappy teams to get to the 3rd round last year. Houston had to at least go through the team that knocked off last years NBA champs. The Hawks played very poor quality basketball in the playoffs and barely got to the 3rd round... In which they got swept. Them getting back to the 3rd round is surely not a lock.

[Diesel]

The road to the ECF was about as easy as it could get. You can't count on that happening again.

 

The Hawks aren't winning the eastern conference next year and they'll proably run into Cleveland before the ECF next year and they will lose. There is nothing wrong with thinking the Hawks will not get back to the 3rd round. They barely got there this past year.

 

This is where we differ.  Getting to a Conference finals is never easy.  That's why we have only been to 1 in our history.  I felt that you problem dismissed what we did as Fluke.  And you've proven that you have.

[Diesel]

The Hawks beat 2 crappy teams to get to the 3rd round last year. Houston had to at least go through the team that knocked off last years NBA champs. The Hawks played very poor quality basketball in the playoffs and barely got to the 3rd round... In which they got swept. Them getting back to the 3rd round is surely not a lock.

 

Haha... those same crappy teams will probably still be who we have to face.  What do you think that Philly is going to all the sudden become some superpower that stands between us and the finals??  Gloom and Doom...

 

Let me guess, you feel like some team has been getting much better than the Hawks and Wizards and Bulls and will make it so hard for us to go to the conference finals.  Let me guess which team...  Philly?  No they suck.  Orlando?  No they suck too.  Charlotte?  Good God they suck?  Toronto?  My goodness, they couldn't get out of the first round.  Brooklyn?  NY? 

 

Help me out Hots... since you believe we can't possibly repeat... tell me which of these teams in the East don't suck and will cause us to lose in the first or second?

[atlhawks1]

Hawks are gonna do the SAME thing the Falcons do every year. Get the fanbase all excited about possible free agents, then do nothing but resign their own. Im hearing now that they even wanna reverse what Antić did and resign him........

[AHF]

This is a worthless argument.  It totally ignores championship teams who seek to resign their own players and then go on to repeat. (Lakers, Bulls, Pistons anyone).

 

However, let me use a more current example.  The Spurs.  When they lost to the Cavs in 2013,  This is how SI judged their offseason moves.

 

 

CBS also gave a B+.

 

The only thing that they really did was bring their players up to their "fair market" price and traded out Neal for Bellinili.

 

However, they were hoisting the championship up.  Regardless of if their players were outperforming their deals or not.

 

Yes.  Ignore the fact that the NBA Finals MVP was earning $1.8M and their best playoff performer (Duncan) was getting paid millions under market value and the fact that those two players earning much less than their actual value is what allowed the Spurs to be able to afford those deals.

 

You are proving my point!

 

(Moreover, I'm not even arguing the Hawks can't compete.  I am saying it will be more difficult for them moving forward because they won't be able to do things like sign a Thabo every offseason with the cap space created due to low $$ deals to guys like Sap, DMC, etc.)

Edited June 30, 2015 by AHF

[DJlaysitup]

This is the problem with Hawks fans.   Aint never been good so when we are good, they doubt it.  They don't think that our run this past season was real.  They believe that the glass slipper came off, the clock struck midnight, and the carriage is turning back to a pumpkin.   It's funny, other teams applaud what we have done and see the way we dominated the East this past year, yet, our own fanbase are so skeptical, that they want to revert back to what failing teams are doing.

It's illogical.

Welcome to Hawksquawk.

 

Well to be fair D...this is Hawksquawk.  The regular fans (normal human beings) do applaud the success and will be there for next season expecting more. 

 

They are the foolish "bandwagonners" who get interested in a good team and do something else when the team stinks.  We, on the other hand, are the mad scientists of fandom. 

[Peoriabird]

There doesn't appear to be a lot of interest in Millsap on the free agent front.  Maybe we do sign him for less than his early bird right and will have a little cap flexibility after all.  But the Hawks better get cooking with potential free agent big men...They are going fast!

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Hawks already have Sap and Carroll sherseys with the new color scheme in the team store.

[JTB]

Hawks already have Sap and Carroll sherseys with the new color scheme in the team store.

Really? Or are you being sarcastic?

[Bamalawdawg]

Hawks already have Sap and Carroll sherseys with the new color scheme in the team store.

Aldridge Jersey must be sold out, Oddly, Monta Ellis jersey already in clearance section

[Nicholasp27]

We have no bigs on the team!

Just a previous all-NBA center in his prime

[Nicholasp27]

I don't think you actually read what I wrote.

Let's assume DMC and Sap repeat what they did last year exactly.

Last year Sap earned $9.5M and DMC earned 2.4M. Let's assume the market values that performance at $16M and $12M respectively.

That means that we paid $11.9M last year to get $28M of performance. This year we will pay $28M to get that $28M of performance.

In the big picture, champions always have some guys who are significantly outperforming their salary. It is what separates them from the pack. Frequently, that is a superstar whose value is capped by the maximum salary. Lebron on the free market might get $40M. Instead, Miami paid him $19M at his highest. That is a huge amount of extra value which makes it much easier for them to construct a contender roster because you are starting from a point where you are way ahead of the curve in terms of bang for your buck.

We will be more challenged going forward if we are staying with our core because we have had a number of guys outperforming their deals. Arguably every single starter last season outperformed their deal. DMC and Sap won't provide that kind of performance to pay leverage next season. Horf will be up for a big raise the next year which will dilute his leverage, etc.

We are going to have to make smart decisions to win a championship and that will be a challenge for Bud to add to this core when the core will cost more every year.

That was my point. The only thing I said about whether we can repeat last year's performance is that I still have optimism for next year because we were elite when healthy and I think there is value in continuity which we will have between our starters , some of our bench guys and Bud.

Not sure where you came up with the rest of that.

This is all true, but we already have our roster so it's not as important now

Our core is a contending team already!!