pimp Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 25 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said: Yes, the Joe Johnson signing set this team back a decade. All those All NBA players that were lining up outside of Phillips arena waiting for their max contract offer from the Hawks had to flock elsewhere. If we hadn't signed Joe we could have made a run at Dewayne Wade and Lebron James, two MUCH better options (and only better options) than Joe in 2010. Not only did we not get Wade or Bron but we also had to miss out on offering huge deals to such talents as David West and Derron Williams in 2011, and 2012, and instead had to suffer through two All star seasons from Joe and back to back top four finishes in the conference. Then we traded Joe away and got MIllsap and Korver with the capspace, another massive whiff since neither of those guys is a guy that can single-handedly carry a team to a championship. Yes the repercussions from that contract were catastrophic indeed. We fans can only ask ourselves when will the front office see the light and stop giving contracts to the best players available and instead hold out for hypothetical better players who may or may not become available or who may or may not have any interest whatsoever to play for us. I get what you are saying, But we resigned Joe, and stayed the same team for 3 years until we unloaded him for capspace. 3 MORE YEARS of same team that wasn't good enough to win. Not bad enough for a lottery pick. Just 3 more years of treadmilling. Until we took a chance, got capspace and Signed Sap and Carroll. As for Joe making the all star team, Not really a amazing feat in an eastern confrence that usally had only 4 or 5 teams that had winning records, by the all star break. Wouldn't have even came close to making the team if he put up the same numbers in the west. Anyway, Joe was a very good player, but not a great player. He was never gonna lead us to the promise land. We were lucky that Billy King was still around , and looking to trade for overpaid guys like JJ and Gerald Wallace. Or else Joe might still be here and scoring 10 ppg in 34 mpg while making 25 million this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted January 1, 2016 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, pimp said: I get what you are saying, But we resigned Joe, and stayed the same team for 3 years until we unloaded him for capspace. 3 MORE YEARS of same team that wasn't good enough to win. Not bad enough for a lottery pick. Just 3 more years of treadmilling. Until we took a chance, got capspace and Signed Sap and Carroll. As for Joe making the all star team, Not really a amazing feat in an eastern confrence that usally had only 4 or 5 teams that had winning records, by the all star break. Wouldn't have even came close to making the team if he put up the same numbers in the west. Anyway, Joe was a very good player, but not a great player. He was never gonna lead us to the promise land. We were lucky that Billy King was still around , and looking to trade for overpaid guys like JJ and Gerald Wallace. Or else Joe might still be here and scoring 10 ppg in 34 mpg while making 25 million this season And if we didn't sign Joe what would we have done with that capspace? Our options would have been Derron Williams, Amare Stoudamire, or David West. Should we have let him walk and become an eighth seed? And draft at the 15-16th spot in the draft. Should we have traded everyone else and tanked a la 76ers. What were our wonderful alternatives to overpaying Joe Johnson??? If we don't get Durant in FAs, the next best player is Horford... and if it takes overpaying him to stay here then we should do it. If it doesn't work out we can always trade the guy. Even if dude takes a few steps back he will still have PLENTY of trade value. We are talking about a league where middle of the pack teams are throwing around 16 million at mediocre SFs left and right. You don't think it'll be fathomable to trade a perennial All Star center??? Edited January 1, 2016 by Atlantaholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHawks89 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 So after one really good game from Al for the first time this season, this is the thread we get? F it. Lets max every player that had huge games too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted January 2, 2016 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 1 hour ago, AHawks89 said: So after one really good game from Al for the first time this season, this is the thread we get? F it. Lets max every player that had huge games too. Nah f*** that; let's let Al walk instead. After all replacing a three time All Star center who has averaged a PER of 21 over his last three seasons is going to be a walk in the park. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdizzle5 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 4 hours ago, Atlantaholic said: And if we didn't sign Joe what would we have done with that capspace? Our options would have been Derron Williams, Amare Stoudamire, or David West. Should we have let him walk and become an eighth seed? And draft at the 15-16th spot in the draft. Should we have traded everyone else and tanked a la 76ers. What were our wonderful alternatives to overpaying Joe Johnson??? If we don't get Durant in FAs, the next best player is Horford... and if it takes overpaying him to stay here then we should do it. If it doesn't work out we can always trade the guy. Even if dude takes a few steps back he will still have PLENTY of trade value. We are talking about a league where middle of the pack teams are throwing around 16 million at mediocre SFs left and right. You don't think it'll be fathomable to trade a perennial All Star center??? Well with that, it looks like Al will be resigned. Since he's the next best player. But man, that's a huge gap between #1 and #2. It's like KD is the globetrotters and Al is the generals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHawks89 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 50 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said: Nah f*** that; let's let Al walk instead. After all replacing a three time All Star center who has averaged a PER of 21 over his last three seasons is going to be a walk in the park. Exactly! Al is the piece we should max out to be closer to that NBA championship. I am definitely satisfied with maxing out our 2nd best player since we have no free agent attraction. Glad we re on the same boat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted January 2, 2016 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 This is the exact same situation we faced with Joe. Don't believe the hype otherwise. The only difference is that Joe didn't have a lot of indifferent performances like Al. Sheez, this is the exact same thing we had with Sap. Sap in his contract year was going to cost us and he did. However, he has not had mediocrity. Lastly, there's a lie going around that Al is the second best player after Durant. I see Whitesides. I see Drummond. I see a whole host of guys. I think it's even possible to piece together guys like: Barnes and Ezeli just for some of that Golden State Love. Or Ryan Anderson and Batum? or Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert. I would rather give Whiteside the max than Horford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Joe did have a big difference than Al's but not a major one. Al was and is better but Joe was a special piece, problem for Joe was, he wasn't a max cat. Sap is a max cat. So is Al. Joe was more of an all star impact cat. So shame in that but paying him that money with his decline being more likely due to his position. Bigs like Al and Sap could play into their late 30s at a high level. While wings don't last well in the mid 30s too often. That was the issue I had with Joe's contract. Too long for his career length. He was worth that pay for like 3 years max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 2 hours ago, Diesel said: This is the exact same situation we faced with Joe. Don't believe the hype otherwise. The only difference is that Joe didn't have a lot of indifferent performances like Al. Sheez, this is the exact same thing we had with Sap. Sap in his contract year was going to cost us and he did. However, he has not had mediocrity. Lastly, there's a lie going around that Al is the second best player after Durant. I see Whitesides. I see Drummond. I see a whole host of guys. I think it's even possible to piece together guys like: Barnes and Ezeli just for some of that Golden State Love. Or Ryan Anderson and Batum? or Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert. I would rather give Whiteside the max than Horford. Whiteside, naw. His BBIQ is low and his mindset isn't of a contender. I love his growth but teams aren't looking at him as the missing piece. Drummond, yes but his restricted. That's why no one mention him. Ahf, I meant what I said about these low BBIQ posters. They make terrible low BBIQ Shaq level comments all the time. I am not going to address low BBIQ posters for more than what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted January 2, 2016 Moderators Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 47 minutes ago, NBASupes said: Whiteside, naw. His BBIQ is low and his mindset isn't of a contender. I love his growth but teams aren't looking at him as the missing piece. Drummond, yes but his restricted. That's why no one mention him. Ahf, I meant what I said about these low BBIQ posters. They make terrible low BBIQ Shaq level comments all the time. I am not going to address low BBIQ posters for more than what it is. Either ignore the post or address the merits. Don't take personal shots at the poster. His post was detailed and factual and then offered in support of his theory about Al's impact. It wasn't a 'Shaq level comment.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RedDawg#8 Posted January 2, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Look, I love Al, he is the man and a huge part of our success but there is no way you can justify paying him more money than we gave Millsap. Al has been our 2nd best player the last 2 years now and yal want to pay him like he is a top 10 guy. That's not good business. Especially when he is essentially giving you less effort night in and night out. When guys aren't putting up superstar numbers they earn a payday through superstar effort. Game 5 against the Wizards and last game against Houston are the only times he has given us Superstar efforts and that's too far apart to warrant a max contract. Say what you want, I know he fits our system like a glove but you don't pay 25 million a year for 15 points and 7 rebounds I'm sorry guys. That's role player production. At least Joe gave us 20 points a year before we maxed him. Again Paul Millsap is our best player and for a team based on the sum of its parts and not individuals there is no way you pay a max contract to your second best player. There's just no excuse to tie up that kind of money on just one player that has not gotten us over the hump yet. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDawg#8 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 For the record I'm OK with a contract similar to Pauls. And if he is willing to take a hometown discount I'm ok with giving him just a little more for nostalgias sake at an even 20 million per. Nothing more though until Al decides he should start playing like its a contract year. I've never seen any body in pro sports visibly try less and end up asking for more money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member hawkman Posted January 2, 2016 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 59 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said: Look, I love Al, he is the man and a huge part of our success but there is no way you can justify paying him more money than we gave Millsap. Al has been our 2nd best player the last 2 years now and yal want to pay him like he is a top 10 guy. That's not good business. Especially when he is essentially giving you less effort night in and night out. When guys aren't putting up superstar numbers they earn a payday through superstar effort. Game 5 against the Wizards and last game against Houston are the only times he has given us Superstar efforts and that's too far apart to warrant a max contract. Say what you want, I know he fits our system like a glove but you don't pay 25 million a year for 15 points and 7 rebounds I'm sorry guys. That's role player production. At least Joe gave us 20 points a year before we maxed him. Again Paul Millsap is our best player and for a team based on the sum of its parts and not individuals there is no way you pay a max contract to your second best player. There's just no excuse to tie up that kind of money on just one player that has not gotten us over the hump yet. I couldn't have said this any better. Part of the benefit of having a system that doesn't utilize superstars should include not having to pay superstar money for players who are clearly not superstars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted January 2, 2016 Moderators Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 On 1/1/2016 at 10:49 AM, kg01 said: Also, whycome @AHF doesn't come to my defense when posters insult me? Take your pick. Either you are tough enough... or I'm the guy with the wrench... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted January 2, 2016 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 19 hours ago, AHawks89 said: Exactly! Al is the piece we should max out to be closer to that NBA championship. I am definitely satisfied with maxing out our 2nd best player since we have no free agent attraction. Glad we re on the same boat! What piece is there that is going to bring us a championship? What mythical star wing player or Center are we replacing Al with after he walks? People are saying "oh my god, what will we do if we tie up our money on Al, our franchise will be doomed". Well what do we do with the money otherwise? Give me one concrete example of a move that would make us better? You guys think we are the only teams that are gonna be "overpaying" our FAs? The cap is going up like 40% next year. 25 million is the new 15, 15 million the new 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpyphish1 Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 20 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said: Look, I love Al, he is the man and a huge part of our success but there is no way you can justify paying him more money than we gave Millsap. Al has been our 2nd best player the last 2 years now and yal want to pay him like he is a top 10 guy. That's not good business. Especially when he is essentially giving you less effort night in and night out. When guys aren't putting up superstar numbers they earn a payday through superstar effort. Game 5 against the Wizards and last game against Houston are the only times he has given us Superstar efforts and that's too far apart to warrant a max contract. Say what you want, I know he fits our system like a glove but you don't pay 25 million a year for 15 points and 7 rebounds I'm sorry guys. That's role player production. At least Joe gave us 20 points a year before we maxed him. Again Paul Millsap is our best player and for a team based on the sum of its parts and not individuals there is no way you pay a max contract to your second best player. There's just no excuse to tie up that kind of money on just one player that has not gotten us over the hump yet. I would imagine Al's contract to be very similar to Millsap's. If he likes being here (and all indications are he does), I don't see him getting much more than 'Sap, But if it takes a max contract, so be it. Cannot afford to let him walk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff_Man Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Things that don't exist: 1. Reasonable contracts for NBA stars. 2. Hometown discounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdizzle5 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 8 hours ago, bumpyphish1 said: I would imagine Al's contract to be very similar to Millsap's. If he likes being here (and all indications are he does), I don't see him getting much more than 'Sap, But if it takes a max contract, so be it. Cannot afford to let him walk. Why can't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpyphish1 Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 7 hours ago, Duff_Man said: Things that don't exist: 1. Reasonable contracts for NBA stars. 2. Hometown discounts That's just ignorant. Millsap turned down more money from the Magic to stay in Atlanta. How soon we forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpyphish1 Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Mdizzle5 said: Why can't we? Because he's worth a max contract to us. Sure as hell can't let him walk. The ignorance regarding the value of Al Horford by many on this board absolutely astounds me. Edited January 3, 2016 by bumpyphish1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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