Where is your faith in Buds System?

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, JTB said:

What's interesting is that sometime last week when I was listening to NBA radio on Sirius XM ....someone (forgot who) came on one of the shows and said he believes that there are some teams out there that can get a star if they really wanted that star because they have the pieces to acquire that star but he's heard that most of those teams are too afraid to deplete their roster in doing so.

I believe his reports and I believe the Hawks are among those teams that are afraid to go to max to get a star here. We have plenty to give to a team to take back a star player but the Hawks organization is selling us on this so called continuation plan which ultimately means we will protect our core players who are not superstars.

I'd say that describes BOS, PHX, MIL more so than us simply because they have lotto picks to add whereas we have low-1sts only to offer.  We also have no young talent other than Dennis who we probably plan to keep.

[Bonkers]

This isn't a popular opinion but I hope we end up in the lottery

[macdaddy]

29 minutes ago, JTB said:

What's interesting is that sometime last week when I was listening to NBA radio on Sirius XM ....someone (forgot who) came on one of the shows and said he believes that there are some teams out there that can get a star if they really wanted that star because they have the pieces to acquire that star but he's heard that most of those teams are too afraid to deplete their roster in doing so.

I believe his reports and I believe the Hawks are among those teams that are afraid to go to max to get a star here. We have plenty to give to a team to take back a star player but the Hawks organization is selling us on this so called continuation plan which ultimately means we will protect our core players who are not superstars.

Would love to hear an example of a star player that another team would trade to us for some combo of players we have.   And what would be that team's motivation for trading the star?

[High5]

We have to draft much better. That's all there is to it. We don't have the assets to trade our way into contention and we aren't going to win any free agent sweepstakes. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

That's interesting! Most who have replied have stated along the lines that "Buds system is good but he will need stars in the system to actually compete for a championship" 

....but you seem to believe a better wing rotation added to go along with Korver and Baze will be all we need to actually win a championship also adding the fact that we don't need anymore bigs or none of any huge significance.

Well what about the following :

-With that team who's going to get you a bucket when need be?

-Who's the closer?

-Who's the unquestionable leader?

I just believe it's unrealistic to believe you can win a championship in the NBA without a star player. I hate to rant on about what history shows but it's the truth and it's what the NBA has become. No star, no rings! It's not opinionated...it's cold hard facts!

Buckets when you need them is on the premise that you will always need buckets or will always be in a dogfight.

One of the beauties of GS is that anybody on that team can get you buckets.   However, most of the time, they are not in a dogfight because they are so efficient.  That's where I'm coming from.  IF we raise our offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency, we don't need Buckets when you need them players.   You can have guys who run the system and they get buckets.  Honestly, has the Spurs always had a GOTO superstar?  From my perspective, you can die from Green just as easily as Duncan or Leonard.  The same was true of that Piston team we always mentioned.

Don't worry.. if we raise the offensive and defensive efficiency of this team, the media will anoint somebody as the goto superstar of this team (Even if there isn't one).

 

[Diesel]

18 minutes ago, High5 said:

We have to draft much better. That's all there is to it. We don't have the assets to trade our way into contention and we aren't going to win any free agent sweepstakes. 

You sound like Billy Knight.

Billy... Is that you?

The draft is fools gold.

[Guard]

That Pistons team some posters brought up was a unicorn type of  team. They played stifling, elite defense while being able to score when necessary. Building a team like that is INCREDIBLY hard to do. Hell, trying to win a championship with no #1 option is INCREDIBLY hard to do. Almost impossible.

It's only fitting that the team I have to root for thinks they can buck the trend   .  Being a Hawks fan is terrible. 

 

Anyway, having a good system is cool and all but you still need talent.  The Spurs have both.  The Warriors have both. I can keep going if need be. 

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

You sound like Billy Knight.

Billy... Is that you?

The draft is fools gold.

Say the GS Warriors who drafted Curry, Thompson, Green and Barnes

Say the Spurs who drafted Duncan, Robinson, Parker, Manu and Leonard

Say the Heat who drafted D. Wade

Say the Mavericks who drafted* Dirk 

Say the Lakers who drafted* Kobe

Say the Celtics who draft Pierce

Say the Bulls who drafted Pippen* and Jordan

Say the Rockets who drafted Hakeem

Say the Pistons who drafted Isiah Thomas, Dumars, Rodman

Say the Lakers who drafted Magic and Worthy

Say the Celtics who drafted Bird and McHale

etc.

 

* - If you pull the crap that these guys weren't drafted because they were "drafted" by another team like the Hawks "drafted" Gasol I will punch your face.

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

Say the GS Warriors who drafted Curry, Thompson, Green and Barnes

Say the Spurs who drafted Duncan, Robinson, Parker, Manu and Leonard

Say the Heat who drafted D. Wade

Say the Mavericks who drafted* Dirk 

Say the Lakers who drafted* Kobe

Say the Celtics who draft Pierce

Say the Bulls who drafted Pippen* and Jordan

Say the Rockets who drafted Hakeem

Say the Pistons who drafted Isiah Thomas, Dumars, Rodman

Say the Lakers who drafted Magic and Worthy

Say the Celtics who drafted Bird and McHale

etc.

 

* - If you pull the crap that these guys weren't drafted because they were "drafted" by another team like the Hawks "drafted" Gasol I will punch your face.

And the Hawks draft Childress, Smoove, Marvin, Law & Shelden.  And their best players during those times were Harrington, Joe Johnson, Crawford, and Bibby.

 

[Watchman]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

And the Hawks draft Childress, Smoove, Marvin, Law & Shelden.  And their best players during those times were Harrington, Joe Johnson, Crawford, and Bibby.

 

Well, you said it so I don't have to.  So many wasted draft picks.  Ugh.

[AHF]

Here is the difference.

 

You can pan for gold in the draft and come up empty like the Hawks. 

But you don't win a championship without pulling gold from the draft.  

Ignore the draft or pretend it is "fool's gold" at your own risk.

 

 

You'll note the NBA MVPs and Finals MVPs among that group:

Say the GS Warriors who drafted Curry, Thompson, Green and Barnes

Say the Spurs who drafted Duncan, Robinson, Parker, Manu and Leonard

Say the Heat who drafted D. Wade

Say the Mavericks who drafted* Dirk 

Say the Lakers who drafted* Kobe

Say the Celtics who draft Pierce

Say the Bulls who drafted Pippen* and Jordan

Say the Rockets who drafted Hakeem

Say the Pistons who drafted Isiah Thomas, Dumars, Rodman

Say the Lakers who drafted Magic and Worthy

Say the Celtics who drafted Bird and McHale

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, AHF said:

* - If you pull the crap that these guys weren't drafted because they were "drafted" by another team like the Hawks "drafted" Gasol I will punch your face.

Oh, did Memphis acquire Pau through the draft then?

[Jody23]

I don't buy the notion that the Hawks wouldn't trade for a star player.  In the end, it's all about the money.  Teams that have star players have a guy that fans will pay to come see play.  The Hawks would gladly welcome a guy like that as people aren't lining up to see the Hawks' players.  Problem is, what team is going to trade a star for a couple of good but not great players who've probably already seen their best years?

 

[Jody23]

I love what that Pistons team did in 2004 and I don't want to take anything away from that.  But if Shaq and Kobe weren't beefin', that series may have gone differently.

[AHF]

30 minutes ago, hawksfanatic said:

Oh, did Memphis acquire Pau through the draft then?

They arranged the trade and then pulled the trigger after directing us who to take.  As if it makes a real world difference whether they pulled off the trade before the pick was taken or 5 minutes after, LMAO.

 

"You traded for the pick before the draft started?  Yeah - you drafted James Worthy and built through the draft."

"You arranged a trade for the pick before the selection but waited until after to execute the trade?  GTFO.  You didn't draft Dirk Nowitzki and don't care about building through the draft."

[High5]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

And the Hawks draft Childress, Smoove, Marvin, Law & Shelden.  And their best players during those times were Harrington, Joe Johnson, Crawford, and Bibby.

 

It sounds like you agree that the Hawks need to draft better...? 

But I'm not even talking about the blown lottery picks.  Those failures are well documented and ancient history at this point. We still built a perennial playoff team and managed to reach the great heights of last season. The problem is we haven't really supplemented that with the draft over the last several years.  Dennis and THJ are all we have to show for our first round picks since Teague. A couple more solid players from those drafts and we would be in a much better situation right now. 

[Guest]

What really happened:

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

They arranged the trade and then pulled the trigger after directing us who to take.  As if it makes a real world difference whether they pulled off the trade before the pick was taken or 5 minutes after, LMAO.

 

"You traded for the pick before the draft started?  Yeah - you drafted James Worthy and built through the draft."

"You arranged a trade for the pick before the selection but waited until after to execute the trade?  GTFO.  You didn't draft Dirk Nowitzki and don't care about building through the draft."

So they traded for him.

[AHF]

Just now, hawksfanatic said:

What really happened:

So they traded for him.

I will readily admit there is a technical difference and I've done so on numerous occasions.

 

The day you describe how that difference means anything in the context of evaluating importance of building through the draft will be the first.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, hawksfanatic said:

What really happened:

So they traded for him.

Ok so that's @kg01 playing soccer, can I get a video of him playing basketball?....3,2.....1

[Guest]

Just now, AHF said:

I will readily admit there is a technical difference and I've done so on numerous occasions.

 

The day you describe how that difference means anything in the context of evaluating importance of building through the draft will be the first.

There's a fundamental difference between saying you "drafted a guy" versus you trading an asset for a draft pick, which is also an asset that's inversely related to how good your team is. If there is anything in the Pau situation that is similar to a draft pick (in the sense that all teams acquire an asset in June of the NBA season which is called a draft pick) it would be Shareef as a draft pick, which is strange to think about because he was traded for. Just as Pau was traded for.

Where you say "you need to draft well/good players!" really what you're saying is you need to acquire good players. Who the f*** cares if it's through the draft, free agency, or trade (which the trade would be exactly how Kobe, Pippen, and Pau were all acquired by their first teams).

Now Diesel is being a fool by calling the draft "fool's gold" but it's equally foolish to pull the whole "OH DANG LOOK AT ALL THESE PLAYERS WHO WON A CHAMPIONSHIP THAT WERE DRAFTED BY THEIR TEAM!!!"