Jeff Teague =Better than Kyle Lowry

[Diesel]

29 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Quote

You can compare stats all you want but the fact is that Lowry has taken the Raps further than the Hawks have ever gotten.   

Not too much to miss here Mac.  You say that Lowry is better because his team has done better than the Hawks??  Right?

So I won't call it reading comprehension.  I will call it logic confusion.   You are confused about the differences between team wins and individual ability.   When I suggest that the Cavs have been more successful in these playoffs than the Warriors, I sarcastically said that by your logic.. that means Kyrie is a better PG than Steph.

That is your logic right??  you know  FORGET THE STATS, LOWRY'S team has gone further than TEAGUE's team.... Therefore Lowry is better than Teague.

[macdaddy]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

Not too much to miss here Mac.  You say that Lowry is better because his team has done better than the Hawks??  Right?

So I won't call it reading comprehension.  I will call it logic confusion.   You are confused about the differences between team wins and individual ability.   When I suggest that the Cavs have been more successful in these playoffs than the Warriors, I sarcastically said that by your logic.. that means Kyrie is a better PG than Steph.

That is your logic right??  you know  FORGET THE STATS, LOWRY'S team has gone further than TEAGUE's team.... Therefore Lowry is better than Teague.

 

You are totally missing the point.   It's not that Lowry's team has gone further therefore he is better.  You took one line and didn't pay any attention to the points leading up to it.  

Lowry is the best player, #1 option on a team that has now beaten the Cavs 1 game in the ECF

Teague is the 3rd best player, losing his starting job, on a team that has lost 12 straight games to the Cavs, was worse in the regular season than the Raps, and couldn't win a second round game.

Now that wouldn't automatically mean Lowry is better but it certainly doesn't help the case that Teague is better.     And to me it is a MUCH better indicator than comparing playoff assist numbers to say one is better than the other.   Or the great argument that Lowry took himself out of a game so that must mean Teague is better because Lowry did something unusual.  

I love Teague.   I argued 2 years ago that Teague was the better player, but arguing it now is a fantasy.     Would Toronto make a Teague for Lowry swap straight up with us?  

[Diesel]

31 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

 

You are totally missing the point.   It's not that Lowry's team has gone further therefore he is better.  You took one line and didn't pay any attention to the points leading up to it.  

Lowry is the best player, #1 option on a team that has now beaten the Cavs 1 game in the ECF

Teague is the 3rd best player, losing his starting job, on a team that has lost 12 straight games to the Cavs, was worse in the regular season than the Raps, and couldn't win a second round game.

Now that wouldn't automatically mean Lowry is better but it certainly doesn't help the case that Teague is better.     And to me it is a MUCH better indicator than comparing playoff assist numbers to say one is better than the other.   Or the great argument that Lowry took himself out of a game so that must mean Teague is better because Lowry did something unusual.  

I love Teague.   I argued 2 years ago that Teague was the better player, but arguing it now is a fantasy.     Would Toronto make a Teague for Lowry swap straight up with us?  

So many false statements here.

1.  Derozen is the #1 option in Toronto.

2.  Teague is still the starter in Atlanta.

3.   Atlanta losing to Cleveland has nothing to do with Teague's individual Ability... or do I have to drag Steph back out for another curtain call.

4.  It's so funny how none of your points have any stats to back them up.

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

So many false statements here.

1.  Derozen is the #1 option in Toronto.

2.  Teague is still the starter in Atlanta.

3.   Atlanta losing to Cleveland has nothing to do with Teague's individual Ability... or do I have to drag Steph back out for another curtain call.

4.  It's so funny how none of your points have any stats to back them up.

That is hilarious.     I guess let's compare stats of both of their last games.   Same opponent.  

If you want to talk about who has better stats then I'm not that interested in that.      If you want to talk about who is the better player then just answer the question.   If the Hawks offered Teague for Lowry straight up would the Raptors take it?   If the Raptors offered the same deal to the Hawks would the Hawks take it?    If their was an expansion draft and they were the only two PGs available who would get picked?  

The irony is I might actually pick Teague because i just like him.   But i don't think any NBA Gms would.

 

[Thomas]

It's kind of crazy how Lowry in Memphis was the guy everyone put on the foul line on purpose because at the end of games he choked. Things really changed in Houston. Now he is a fairly deadly shooter who waivers between helping take over the scoring late in games and winning big games or occasionally reverting to the not so mentally strong PG that the media pays intense attention to. Still comparing Teague and Lowry in a vacuum doesn't mean a whole lot to the Hawks if neither will be playing for us after next year. 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

That is hilarious.     I guess let's compare stats of both of their last games.   Same opponent.  

If you want to talk about who has better stats then I'm not that interested in that.      If you want to talk about who is the better player then just answer the question.   If the Hawks offered Teague for Lowry straight up would the Raptors take it?   If the Raptors offered the same deal to the Hawks would the Hawks take it?    If their was an expansion draft and they were the only two PGs available who would get picked?  

The irony is I might actually pick Teague because i just like him.   But i don't think any NBA Gms would.

 

If you do that... are you going to put Lowry in Bud's system and Teague in Toronto's?  I guarantee that Lowry would wither and die in Bud's system and Teague would thrive in Toronto's.

 

[Lurker]

Lowry sure is showing a TON more confidence than Teague did against the same team. Close this thread. It's awful.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Lowry sure is showing a TON more confidence than Teague did against the same team. Close this thread. It's awful.

Lowry is a better scorer than Jeff, and has always been but Jeff has been a better player for the most part. Once again blaming Jeff is weak for Cleveland. He did his job with Dennis. They out producing Kyrie and Delly in every game. We didn't get no games from Korver or Bazemore that was anywhere near DeRozan v. Cleveland 

[benhillboy]

When I was growing up the toughness of your team came from your starting PG and C.  Then a PF off the bench.  If Valencunas were starting the series could conceivably be over.  But Lowry and Biyombo don't  lack for heart and toughness, so the series is amazingly tied.  Can't say the same for the Hawks' duo.

[NBASupes]

Just now, benhillboy said:

When I was growing up the toughness of your team came from your starting PG and C.  Then a PF off the bench.  If Valencunas were starting the series could conceivably be over.  But Lowry and Biyombo don't  lack for heart and toughness, so the series is amazingly tied.  Can't say the same for the Hawks' duo.

Dennis didn't lack heart and we still got lost swept.  We don't match up well v. Cleveland. We need to add a legit scorer.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Dennis didn't lack heart and we still got lost swept.  We don't match up well v. Cleveland. We need to add a legit scorer.

He said starting PG.  We know Dennis didn't  lack heart.

[AHF]

On 5/20/2016 at 4:04 PM, willthepureshooter said:

I can't believe we're having this debate. How can anyone believe Kyle Lowry's better than Teague in the playoffs.  Please take a look at the Per 36 statistics for each player in the playoffs and tell me what part makes Lowry better. The guy is nothing but a chucker that doesn't play defense and tucks his tail against other premium guards. When was the last time Teague walked off the court during any game let alone the playoffs to "decompress?" Man, I get a slight giggle everyday from some of the Squawks eggsperts. Please stop spreading the foolery. 

 

Remember how I was talking about regular season being a factor for people in large part because of the muuuch larger samples size?

Well, since this was posted for the 2015-16 playoffs:

Teague is still at:

18.7 pp36 on .380% FG%

but now Lowry went from:

16.3 pp36 on .357% fg% to 

17.3 pp36 on .389% fg%

Are we supposed to now think that Lowry is that much better than he was a few days ago?  No.  His numbers are up because he had a few good games in the playoffs that helped his team beat the Cavs twice but a few games doesn't change his career trajectory.  We know that from the larger bulk of production that is his combined playoffs and regular season numbers.  This is why you don't focus your attention on a few games and ignore the larger data set.

[willthepureshooter]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Remember how I was talking about regular season being a factor for people in large part because of the muuuch larger samples size?

Well, since this was posted for the 2015-16 playoffs:

Teague is still at:

18.7 pp36 on .380% FG%

but now Lowry went from:

16.3 pp36 on .357% fg% to 

17.3 pp36 on .389% fg%

Are we supposed to now think that Lowry is that much better than he was a few days ago?  No.  His numbers are up because he had a few good games in the playoffs that helped his team beat the Cavs twice but a few games doesn't change his career trajectory.  We know that from the larger bulk of production that is his combined playoffs and regular season numbers.  This is why you don't focus your attention on a few games and ignore the larger data set.

So, the numbers guy is telling us to ignore the numbers? Lol! Anyone with common sense would see the difference in playoff games played. I guess you had to wait until Lowry had a high scoring playoff game to try to make your argument somewhat valid. Including "nick-picking" the stats to fit your agenda. I'm talking about career playoff performance. I guess you had to "decompress" as well. Haha!

Edited May 24, 2016 by willthepureshooter

[SalvorMallow]

3 minutes ago, willthepureshooter said:

So, the numbers guy is telling us to ignore the numbers? Lol! Anyone with common sense would see the difference in playoff games played. I guess you had to wait until Lowry had a high scoring playoff game to try to make your argument somewhat valid. I guess you had to "decompress" as well. Haha!

While Lowry was handling business on his home floor, Teague was riding the bench behind the 2nd string PG in the playoffs in an elimination game!!!!!  I don't understand how this is a debate at this point. 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, willthepureshooter said:

So, the numbers guy is telling us to ignore the numbers? Lol! Anyone with common sense would see the difference in playoff games played. I guess you had to wait until Lowry had a high scoring playoff game to try to make your argument somewhat valid. Including "nick-picking" the stats to fit your agenda. I'm talking about career playoff performance. I guess you had to "decompress" as well. Haha!

So insisting on looking at all the numbers instead of just a small sample size portion of them and you are now "nitpicking" with an "agenda" but ignoring the >1000 regular season games these guys have played makes perfect sense?

I told people to take both the playoff and regular season games into account - not to ignore any of them.  What agenda do I possibly have here?  I hadn't expressed any opinion on Teague vs Lowry when I pointed out that some people were taking into account the much larger data set of regular season games and don't have a strong opinion on that anyway.  

Let me know what argument you think I'm trying to prove when I point to the need for a statistically significant sample size and then we can address whatever agenda you think I have.  Frankly, I have no idea what you are trying to convey here other than suggesting my comments are meritless because I have some undefined agenda (but suggesting this without addressing the SSS issue directly).

[NBASupes]

Jeff is better than Lowry but Lowry is a star and Jeff isn't. Same for Kyrie and Jeff. Jeff might do a lot and do a lot better than them but they do some special shit and Jeff don't do special shit.

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, willthepureshooter said:

So, the numbers guy is telling us to ignore the numbers? Lol! Anyone with common sense would see the difference in playoff games played. I guess you had to wait until Lowry had a high scoring playoff game to try to make your argument somewhat valid. Including "nick-picking" the stats to fit your agenda. I'm talking about career playoff performance. I guess you had to "decompress" as well. Haha!

Here's a cold hard truth for you: Your boy Jeff Teague disappears too much in big situations even when he's allowed loose to do what he wants. If it was Teague out there instead of Lowry for Toronto, he does not do NEARLY as well. He would shrink.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Lurker

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Jeff is better than Lowry but Lowry is a star and Jeff isn't. Same for Kyrie and Jeff. Jeff might do a lot and do a lot better than them but they do some special shit and Jeff don't do special shit.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

Here's a cold hard truth for you: Your boy Jeff Teague disappears too much in big situations even when he's allowed loose to do what he wants. If it was Teague out there instead of Lowry for Toronto, he does not do NEARLY as well. He would shrink.

 

 

[AHF]

The youtube game doesn't prove much.  Teague still has a problem with consistency of aggression.  When he is aggressive, he can be great as Diesel shows.  In other cases...