The Outsiders Den

[NBASupes]

 

This is a thread for fans who aren't really drinking the Kool-Aid and don't want to seem like trolls whenever the new core is mentioned. We just want to talk about the Hawks. The den is an open club. You can say crazy ish here like Millsap is going to win MVP or you can say I hope Dennis hurts himself on a skateboard and we won't care. 

Clearly, since Al has since left, this board has been extremely emotional and hard to read. If you say what I, @KrisWillis or @Hotlanta1981 says. You are a hater, you love Al, you love Dwight, the Hawks University, Dwight just needs another chance, etc. I got tired of reading that shit and yes, I do think Dwight as a starter who is really relied on is trash. I would love him as a 6th man or 3rd big. He would fit that role but as a starter much less a key player, naw. It's like starting Jamal Crawford, it might have some good but it won't end well. 

That said, I watched the Rockets some last year and I wasn't impressed with most of them but I really was shocked how bad Dwight is as an impact guy. His numbers weren't bad but his impact was a net negative and he would get outplayed impact wise consistently by a 20 year old raw Swiss kid named Capela. No, I don't think Dwight is good. Yes, I do think he is talented. I think he and Rondo are still talented. But both are net negatives. You are free to disagree in the den but we all can freely express  our thoughts in the den. Including Diesel. 

I think many posters think I would be sad but I am not. I would be if most of this team was locked up to long deals but only Dwight and Bazemore are and those are tank commanders anyway. The guys who are impactful like Korver and Thabo are FA's next year and the all around good player who puts up numbers and has good impact is a FA as well so we are right inline with the inevitable. 

 

While talking about the tank. I was looking at some players who I really liked a lot: 

1. Josh Jackson- He has it all. Vision, athletic ability, skills, BBIQ, moves well off the ball and has that killer in him. Potential: Tracy McGrady with better off ball potential 

2. Markelle Fultz- Elite scoring potential. Elite defensive potential. Elite shooter. One of the most gifted shooters/scorers for his age since Stephen Curry and is far more physically advanced than Curry at the same stage. He's physically NBA level now. 

3. Henry Giles- I see him more as a blend between Kevin Garnett and James Worthy. I think he has more guard skills as a potential than KG but he's exceptional skill wise like Worthy out of HS. 

These three are elite but this class is exceptional. Eight players in this class with All Star NBA potential. I hope the Hawks get one of these picks. 

 

Edited July 4, 2016 by NBASupes

[Flight]

His name is Harry Giles.... Smh 

[ngc7]

boooo this thread

[TheNorthCydeRises]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

That said, I watched the Rockets some last year and I wasn't impressed with most of them but I really was shocked how bad Dwight is as an impact guy. His numbers weren't bad but his impact was a net negative and he would get outplayed impact wise consistently by a 20 year old raw Swiss kid named Capela. No, I don't think Dwight is good. Yes, I do think he is talented. I think he and Rondo are still talented. But both are net negatives. You are free to disagree in the den but we all can freely express  our thoughts in the den. Including Diesel. 

 

 

Horford was my boy.  I appreciate everything he did here in his 9 years in an Atlanta uniform.

And while I dislike Dwight's childlike personna and non-professionalism at times, we need to simply tell the truth about Howard and Horford.

This is Howard's NBA Efficiency peofile from last season ( regular season + playoffs ).  Remember, NBA Efficiency is a pure production stat, and really an indicator of who is REALLY impacting games.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/houston-rockets/players/dwight-howard/profile/16/10/159

When you talk about his impact, you are somewhat correct.  In the games he logged at least 25 minutes, Dwight head to head was only 25 - 26 - 18.   He lost head to head matchups to the likes of Mahinmi, Len, and our very own Kris Humphries.  And he got destroyed head to head by Cousins and Jordan in 2 of those games.

In the 25 games in which Dwight won his matchup, the Rockets were 16 - 9.  In the 26 games in which he lost his matchup, the Rockets were 8 - 18.

Dwight winning his matchup was more of a barometer for the Rockets winning, than Harden, who posted a gaudy 64 - 15 - 8 record in his matchups, but in those 64 matchup wins, the Rockets were only 33 - 31 in those games.

Now let's look at Horford.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/atlanta-hawks/players/al-horford/profile/16/1/4

25 - 36 - 22 record vs his center counterpart.   Horford in his losses rarely got dominated, but he did get outplayed by the likes of Tristan Thompson, Tyson Chandler, and a particularly embarrassing performance vs Cody Zeller, in which he scored 2 points and grabbed 2 rebounds in 27 minutes.

Here's the dusturbing thing about Horford last season.  We were only 13 - 12 when he won his matchup.  Now you can blame orher players on the team for those losses, but Horford rarely decisively won his matchups.  And when he lost his matchup, the Hawks were 13 - 23.

Unlike Dwight, whose play impacted wins and losses, Horford winning or losing his matchups normally determined if we lost the game.

Contrast that with Paul Millsap

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/atlanta-hawks/players/paul-millsap/profile/16/1/7

46 - 25 - 15 overall matchup record.

A 34 - 12 record in those 46 matchup wins.  In the 25 matchup losses, the Hawks were 6 - 19.   This means that HE was the true impact player for the Hawks.  

The main problem with Horford is that he was consistent as hell, but rarely elite.  So when his opponent raised his level of play and had a great game, we really needed Al to cancel that out.  And on most nights, he just didn't.  And it really was evident in the playoffs.

If Dwight gives us 17 pts - 11 rebounds, it'll surpass anything that Horford could've given us, and will have a tremendous impact on games.

At the end of the day, you, @Hotlanta1981, and @KrisWillis will end up being DEAD WRONG about losing Horford and replacing him with Dwight.

All Bud needs to do is keep that dude engaged on the offensive end, so that he'll rebound and rim protect.

The system and coaching will take care of the rest.

 

[Lurker]

Prepare to be thoroughly shocked if what I think should happen does. If it doesn't I'm not sure I'm watching more that about half the games.

By what I mean is I wouldn't be surprised if the starting lineup was Schröder/Bazemore/Prince/Millsap/Howard. That lineup will shock some people. If you replace Korver with Prince and continue to start Bazemore out of position, the steep regression you think is going to happen will and a lot of it will be on Korver and Bazemore. 

Horford is good but he's not the difference maker. If he was then why was this team looking like it could miss the playoffs until it picked up Humphries? The difference maker in the 60 win season was Bud's system not being as scouted out and two defensive wing players added to the bench, not Horford. Now that system is scouted out thoroughly and Bud needs to make adjustments against it, and would have needed to even WITH Horford. If he doesn't, he is well on his way to being fired.

[Alex]

What camp do I fit in?  I dislike (understatement of the year) Howard and I am not really that bummed over Horford leaving.  I think I belong in the den though.

[MrYellow]

You guys deserve Sacramento

[Guest]

Really? I'm taking my football and going home. Talk about being emotional.

Al has been my favorite player,  but he was no Karl Malone (I couldn't resist).  

I'm not drinking any kool aid on Dwight.  I wanted D12 here WITH Al AND Sap not in lieu of. Didn't happen, move on. It won't be a seamless transition on the court or in the locker room. He has a lot to prove. 

Invoking @Hotlanta1981 who called Al soft is just comical. 

You're better than this Supes.

 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IheartVolt]

6 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Horford was my boy.  I appreciate everything he did here in his 9 years in an Atlanta uniform.

And while I dislike Dwight's childlike personna and non-professionalism at times, we need to simply tell the truth about Howard and Horford.

This is Howard's NBA Efficiency peofile from last season ( regular season + playoffs ).  Remember, NBA Efficiency is a pure production stat, and really an indicator of who is REALLY impacting games.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/houston-rockets/players/dwight-howard/profile/16/10/159

When you talk about his impact, you are somewhat correct.  In the games he logged at least 25 minutes, Dwight head to head was only 25 - 26 - 18.   He lost head to head matchups to the likes of Mahinmi, Len, and our very own Kris Humphries.  And he got destroyed head to head by Cousins and Jordan in 2 of those games.

In the 25 games in which Dwight won his matchup, the Rockets were 16 - 9.  In the 26 games in which he lost his matchup, the Rockets were 8 - 18.

Dwight winning his matchup was more of a barometer for the Rockets winning, than Harden, who posted a gaudy 64 - 15 - 8 record in his matchups, but in those 64 matchup wins, the Rockets were only 33 - 31 in those games.

Now let's look at Horford.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/atlanta-hawks/players/al-horford/profile/16/1/4

25 - 36 - 22 record vs his center counterpart.   Horford in his losses rarely got dominated, but he did get outplayed by the likes of Tristan Thompson, Tyson Chandler, and a particularly embarrassing performance vs Cody Zeller, in which he scored 2 points and grabbed 2 rebounds in 27 minutes.

Here's the dusturbing thing about Horford last season.  We were only 13 - 12 when he won his matchup.  Now you can blame orher players on the team for those losses, but Horford rarely decisively won his matchups.  And when he lost his matchup, the Hawks were 13 - 23.

Unlike Dwight, whose play impacted wins and losses, Horford winning or losing his matchups normally determined if we lost the game.

Contrast that with Paul Millsap

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/atlanta-hawks/players/paul-millsap/profile/16/1/7

46 - 25 - 15 overall matchup record.

A 34 - 12 record in those 46 matchup wins.  In the 25 matchup losses, the Hawks were 6 - 19.   This means that HE was the true impact player for the Hawks.  

The main problem with Horford is that he was consistent as hell, but rarely elite.  So when his opponent raised his level of play and had a great game, we really needed Al to cancel that out.  And on most nights, he just didn't.  And it really was evident in the playoffs.

If Dwight gives us 17 pts - 11 rebounds, it'll surpass anything that Horford could've given us, and will have a tremendous impact on games.

At the end of the day, you, @Hotlanta1981, and @KrisWillis will end up being DEAD WRONG about losing Horford and replacing him with Dwight.

All Bud needs to do is keep that dude engaged on the offensive end, so that he'll rebound and rim protect.

The system and coaching will take care of the rest.

 

It is very early in the A.M. and this right here has already won the honors of post of the day.. Insightful beat down.

[sturt]

I appreciate Supes candor, but also think there's a history there of enjoying the limelight of taking contrarian views, so it's not taken as seriously as he probably wishes it were, at least on my part. Will he let NorthCyde's excellent post intervene in the conclusion he's drawn? I'd like to think so. It should, anyway.

I actually largely share Supes' opinion of Dwight. Many of you were evidently having a Dwight discussion in one or a few threads once it became public that Dwight was meeting with Hawks HQ. Me? Naive as I may be, I thought "that'll never happen... just a ploy on the part of both to create some leverage with their other interests." I couldn't imagine Bud having any serious interest in the skill set unless there was some serious discount... and I mean serious. And like Supes (and I think a lot of others), figured we had to go into FA season laser-focused on keeping Al, yes b/c he's a lifelong productive borderline All-Star Hawk, but mainly b/c to fail to bring him back, you're essentially throwing away ~$10m of cap space and the value of talent that that constitutes to the roster... at a time in the timeline of this franchise when it teeters on the cusp of relevance or irrelevance. Moreover, like Supes, I perceived Deng to be a legit #1 target b/c he really did seem to be an ideal fit in how he can credibly produce at both SF and back-up PF. 

But I also appreciate that it's easier in summer 2016 to swallow that 5th year pill than it will be in summer 2020, when it could be a handicap. And looking at it all soberly, his to-date history says injury could be a prominent theme of Al's retirement bio when it gets written. Budcox can only do so much before the scale tips over to the "unreasonable" side of the ledger. I read some talk as-if oblivious to the point that Budcox weren't in control of everyting here... Horford has a mind of his own.

As happens often, I find myself nodding in agreement with JBH.... Dwight has a LOT to prove here. And the first test is really a matter of personality more than skill--can he find the humility to blend into the mix of this team. I'd like to think so, but skepticism is warranted. As a fan, I want to see  him excel, and will extend some leash in my opinion. He's a Hawk now, as weird as that feels as I write it. His signing has seriously inhibited us from doing everything in FA that I'd thought we might, and there's almost no question that if Budcox could do it all over again knowing what they know now, this all would have went down differently. But.... what is too easily set aside.... they couldn't actually know it. They are not not omniscient.

So, now they (Budcox) really get to earn their money. This is a big-time set-back, but... particularly in view of the leaps in development of Schröder and Bazemore, and as someone has pointed out, in view of Dwight's success on those occasions when he's had a formidable PF playing beside him, not unconquerable.  The out-of-nowhere signing of Delaney yesterday--not even 24 hours following the disappointing announcement from Horford--suggests to me that they took a punch, but they're still in the ring and fully engaged in the off-court battle. There's no giving up. God knows, there have been times in this franchise's history that a development like this would have been the haymaker that put the regime into a tailspin. I don't sense that here. We have leadership who are determined and steady in their approach. That's not discounting the enormity of the task before them, but it is voicing confidence that these are long-distance runners, and that it is, after all, a marathon, not a sprint, to get to where we all want to go.

 

[IheartVolt]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

 

This is a thread for fans who aren't really drinking the Kool-Aid and don't want to seem like trolls whenever the new core is mentioned. We just want to talk about the Hawks. The den is an open club. You can say crazy ish here like Millsap is going to win MVP or you can say I hope Dennis hurts himself on a skateboard and we won't care. 

Clearly, since Al has since left, this board has been extremely emotional and hard to read. If you say what I, @KrisWillis or @Hotlanta1981 says. You are a hater, you love Al, you love Dwight, the Hawks University, Dwight just needs another chance, etc. I got tired of reading that shit and yes, I do think Dwight as a starter who is really relied on is trash. I would love him as a 6th man or 3rd big. He would fit that role but as a starter much less a key player, naw. It's like starting Jamal Crawford, it might have some good but it won't end well. 

That said, I watched the Rockets some last year and I wasn't impressed with most of them but I really was shocked how bad Dwight is as an impact guy. His numbers weren't bad but his impact was a net negative and he would get outplayed impact wise consistently by a 20 year old raw Swiss kid named Capela. No, I don't think Dwight is good. Yes, I do think he is talented. I think he and Rondo are still talented. But both are net negatives. You are free to disagree in the den but we all can freely express  our thoughts in the den. Including Diesel. 

I think many posters think I would be sad but I am not. I would be if most of this team was locked up to long deals but only Dwight and Bazemore are and those are tank commanders anyway. The guys who are impactful like Korver and Thabo are FA's next year and the all around good player who puts up numbers and has good impact is a FA as well so we are right inline with the inevitable. 

 

While talking about the tank. I was looking at some players who I really liked a lot: 

1. Josh Jackson- He has it all. Vision, athletic ability, skills, BBIQ, moves well off the ball and has that killer in him. Potential: Tracy McGrady with better off ball potential 

2. Markelle Fultz- Elite scoring potential. Elite defensive potential. Elite shooter. One of the most gifted shooters/scorers for his age since Stephen Curry and is far more physically advanced than Curry at the same stage. He's physically NBA level now. 

3. Henry Giles- I see him more as a blend between Kevin Garnett and James Worthy. I think he has more guard skills as a potential than KG but he's exceptional skill wise like Worthy out of HS. 

These three are elite but this class is exceptional. Eight players in this class with All Star NBA potential. I hope the Hawks get one of these picks. 

 

Glad to see you have not gotten into mommies medicine cabinet and are still with us Supes. I am praying for you 

[IheartVolt]

55 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Really? I'm taking my football and going home. Talk about being emotional.

Al has been my favorite player,  but he was no Karl Malone (I couldn't resist).  

I'm not drinking any kool aid on Dwight.  I wanted D12 here WITH Al AND Sap not in lieu of. Didn't happen, move on. It won't be a seamless transition on the court or in the locker room. He has a lot to prove. 

Invoking @Hotlanta1981

Holy schmoly talking bout kicking a guy when he is down!! It is true Alice is more the Culligan man then the Mailman

[Thomas]

"So, now they (Budcox) really get to earn their money. This is a big-time set-back, but... particularly in view of the leaps in development of Schröder and Bazemore, and as someone has pointed out, in view of Dwight's success on those occasions when he's had a formidable PF playing beside him, not unconquerable.  The out-of-nowhere signing of Delaney yesterday--not even 24 hours following the disappointing announcement from Horford--suggests to me that they took a punch, but they're still in the ring and fully engaged in the off-court battle. There's no giving up. God knows, there have been times in this franchise's history that a development like this would have been the haymaker that put the regime into a tailspin. I don't sense that here. We have leadership who are determined and steady in their approach. That's not discounting the enormity of the task before them, but it is voicing confidence that these are long-distance runners, and that it is, after all, a marathon, not a sprint, to get to where we all want to go."

Well said sturt.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, sturt said:

I appreciate Supes candor, but also think there's a history there of enjoying the limelight of taking contrarian views, so it's not taken as seriously as he probably wishes it were, at least on my part. Will he let NorthCyde's excellent post intervene in the conclusion he's drawn? I'd like to think so. It should, anyway.

I actually largely share Supes' opinion of Dwight. Many of you were evidently having a Dwight discussion in one or a few threads once it became public that Dwight was meeting with Hawks HQ. Me? Naive as I may be, I thought "that'll never happen... just a ploy on the part of both to create some leverage with their other interests." I couldn't imagine Bud having any serious interest in the skill set unless there was some serious discount... and I mean serious. And like Supes (and I think a lot of others), figured we had to go into FA season laser-focused on keeping Al, yes b/c he's a lifelong productive borderline All-Star Hawk, but mainly b/c to fail to bring him back, you're essentially throwing away ~$10m of cap space and the value of talent that that constitutes to the roster... at a time in the timeline of this franchise when it teeters on the cusp of relevance or irrelevance. Moreover, like Supes, I perceived Deng to be a legit #1 target b/c he really did seem to be an ideal fit in how he can credibly produce at both SF and back-up PF. 

But I also appreciate that it's easier in summer 2016 to swallow that 5th year pill than it will be in summer 2020, when it could be a handicap. And looking at it all soberly, his to-date history says injury could be a prominent theme of Al's retirement bio when it gets written. Budcox can only do so much before the scale tips over to the "unreasonable" side of the ledger. I read some talk as-if oblivious to the point that Budcox weren't in control of everyting here... Horford has a mind of his own.

As happens often, I find myself nodding in agreement with JBH.... Dwight has a LOT to prove here. And the first test is really a matter of personality more than skill--can he find the humility to blend into the mix of this team. I'd like to think so, but skepticism is warranted. As a fan, I want to see  him excel, and will extend some leash in my opinion. He's a Hawk now, as weird as that feels as I write it. His signing has seriously inhibited us from doing everything in FA that I'd thought we might, and there's almost no question that if Budcox could do it all over again knowing what they know now, this all would have went down differently. But.... what is too easily set aside.... they couldn't actually know it. They are not not omniscient.

So, now they (Budcox) really get to earn their money. This is a big-time set-back, but... particularly in view of the leaps in development of Schröder and Bazemore, and as someone has pointed out, in view of Dwight's success on those occasions when he's had a formidable PF playing beside him, not unconquerable.  The out-of-nowhere signing of Delaney yesterday--not even 24 hours following the disappointing announcement from Horford--suggests to me that they took a punch, but they're still in the ring and fully engaged in the off-court battle. There's no giving up. God knows, there have been times in this franchise's history that a development like this would have been the haymaker that put the regime into a tailspin. I don't sense that here. We have leadership who are determined and steady in their approach. That's not discounting the enormity of the task before them, but it is voicing confidence that these are long-distance runners, and that it is, after all, a marathon, not a sprint, to get to where we all want to go.

 

Preach!!!

[Plainview1981]

6 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Horford was my boy.  I appreciate everything he did here in his 9 years in an Atlanta uniform.

And while I dislike Dwight's childlike personna and non-professionalism at times, we need to simply tell the truth about Howard and Horford.

This is Howard's NBA Efficiency peofile from last season ( regular season + playoffs ).  Remember, NBA Efficiency is a pure production stat, and really an indicator of who is REALLY impacting games.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/houston-rockets/players/dwight-howard/profile/16/10/159

When you talk about his impact, you are somewhat correct.  In the games he logged at least 25 minutes, Dwight head to head was only 25 - 26 - 18.   He lost head to head matchups to the likes of Mahinmi, Len, and our very own Kris Humphries.  And he got destroyed head to head by Cousins and Jordan in 2 of those games.

In the 25 games in which Dwight won his matchup, the Rockets were 16 - 9.  In the 26 games in which he lost his matchup, the Rockets were 8 - 18.

Dwight winning his matchup was more of a barometer for the Rockets winning, than Harden, who posted a gaudy 64 - 15 - 8 record in his matchups, but in those 64 matchup wins, the Rockets were only 33 - 31 in those games.

Now let's look at Horford.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/atlanta-hawks/players/al-horford/profile/16/1/4

25 - 36 - 22 record vs his center counterpart.   Horford in his losses rarely got dominated, but he did get outplayed by the likes of Tristan Thompson, Tyson Chandler, and a particularly embarrassing performance vs Cody Zeller, in which he scored 2 points and grabbed 2 rebounds in 27 minutes.

Here's the dusturbing thing about Horford last season.  We were only 13 - 12 when he won his matchup.  Now you can blame orher players on the team for those losses, but Horford rarely decisively won his matchups.  And when he lost his matchup, the Hawks were 13 - 23.

Unlike Dwight, whose play impacted wins and losses, Horford winning or losing his matchups normally determined if we lost the game.

Contrast that with Paul Millsap

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/atlanta-hawks/players/paul-millsap/profile/16/1/7

46 - 25 - 15 overall matchup record.

A 34 - 12 record in those 46 matchup wins.  In the 25 matchup losses, the Hawks were 6 - 19.   This means that HE was the true impact player for the Hawks.  

The main problem with Horford is that he was consistent as hell, but rarely elite.  So when his opponent raised his level of play and had a great game, we really needed Al to cancel that out.  And on most nights, he just didn't.  And it really was evident in the playoffs.

If Dwight gives us 17 pts - 11 rebounds, it'll surpass anything that Horford could've given us, and will have a tremendous impact on games.

At the end of the day, you, @Hotlanta1981, and @KrisWillis will end up being DEAD WRONG about losing Horford and replacing him with Dwight.

All Bud needs to do is keep that dude engaged on the offensive end, so that he'll rebound and rim protect.

The system and coaching will take care of the rest.

 

Would you care to explain what I'm wrong about? Thanks.

It seems like you're trying to put me in the pro Horford camp and that is nonsense.

[Guest]

I guess my view's are similar to many who posted above. Was Al one of my favorite players? Sure. Was he Karl Malone. No. To me, he was a team first player who fit into a system that we built around his strengths. Now, Bud will build a system to fit Dwight's strengths. I believe in the NBA, much like in life, if you aren't able to adjust to a different situation, you could be in trouble. We ran a system of having our bigs shoot from 3, that didn't work, specially in the playoffs so Budcox adjusted and will now play more old school traditional big man power game. It's been successful for decades so there's no reason to think it can't be successful again. 

 

The bottom line is that you have to work with what you are given and try to make the best of any situation. Sounds like a cliché right? Well, we have cliches for a reason. Roll with the punches. Be the best you can be (That one I stole from the Army). 

 

I will look at this as a positive in that Dennis will get a chance to develop as one of the top young players in the league, and having been around high character guys since he was a rookie, start to be a leader in the locker room as well. I will also give Dwight the benefit of the doubt, that now being his family and the great coaching staff that we have, that he will indeed be able to resurrect his career and change the perception many people have of him.

 

I'll end with one last cliché, Rome was not built in a day. This is a work in progress. But I honestly believe that Bud is one of the best at developing players and playing them to their strengths. We will work, and work, and work some more until we get it right. That is all I can ask for as a fan.

[Vol4ever]

It was Horf's decision to leave.  It was about the money and wanting to be the dog.  Horford is not a playoff dominating big, he is a shooter and decent passer.  In the playoffs you must have inside play and Horford has never been a tough inside player.  To trash D12 like some have you may have to rethink those words in the future.  I was never a huge fan of Horf but I did like him and he fit in, he is a good role player and not a star.

Again he made the decision to leave and that is the bottom line.  The Hawks had him in their plan, they were just trying to build the team.  

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Really? I'm taking my football and going home. Talk about being emotional.

Al has been my favorite player,  but he was no Karl Malone (I couldn't resist).  

I'm not drinking any kool aid on Dwight.  I wanted D12 here WITH Al AND Sap not in lieu of. Didn't happen, move on. It won't be a seamless transition on the court or in the locker room. He has a lot to prove. 

Invoking @Hotlanta1981 who called Al soft is just comical. 

You're better than this Supes.

 

I've alway been an impact guy and I've have always stated I loved the way San Antonio does it. Always. To me, talent isn't the 1st thing I look for from NBA players. It's their impact and their ability to fit a system. Regardless if it's the Larry Brown defensive scheme or the Coach Pop scheme of today of ball movement and off ball movement which is an advanced version of what you see in Europe.

Due to this, I have become enamored with players like Tim Duncan, Al Horford, Noah if he's healthy, Carroll, Korver, Manu, Klay,  Steph, Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Draymond Green,  Deng and others. I watch for the little things, screens, off ball movement, hustle plays, contesting shots, ability to run all types of plays with great efficiency, the ability to make others life much easier. 

Now the common NBA fan isn't really smart enough or have time to watch half as many games as I do. During a season, I average about 3 games a day and I watch the games most on my recorded app which I have from others in the community who are passionate about the game. With the exception of a team like the Nets, I watched every NBA team at least 10 times this year. Some obviously more than others. 

While doing that, I've collected a database of players across the NBA and I have been on record that this is the best the NBA has ever been in terms of sheer talent across the league.

Due to that, I have built an index on all NBA players. The one that stand out to this fanbase as well as others is Al Horford. I have been on record for saying I think Al is one of the best players in the NBA. An elite impact guy. So much so, I say things like he's better than Karl Malone and yes, I do believe it. 

It has gotten me in hot water with fanbases and no, I don't care. I value impact and the ability to make winning plays above all else and I stand by that for NBA players. Now for college prospects,  it is all about talent for me since it's hard to see the little things impact since it is just not the same game. 

Al Horford is exceptional. His elite skills are mid range shooting, movement, screens, PnR, PnP, cutting, overall BBIQ, defensive awareness, the ability to hedge, recovery time defensively, the ability to contest shots, the  ability to improvise without the ball. The ability to catch his teammates mistakes before the offensive recognizes it and of course the ability to communicate defensively. These are things I've seen both on film and in person. It's called constantly making the winning playoff if only have of this is done but Al does it all at an elite level. This is why I am extremely high on him and think he is one of the best players in the NBA period.

Now he has his flaws, his lack of wanting to bang for rebounds, his passive nature on offense and at times too unselfish. The fact that he is not a #1 option to a team that needs a #1 option. His talent is good but Aldridge is more talented. His athletic ability is very good overall but Smoove was clearly a better athlete when he was in his prime. To me, I look at the complete package. So I value Al, a lot more than you guys tend to. I value players like Nick Young, Dwight Howard at his present state, Josh Smith of now and then, Jamal Crawford in the wrong role, Nate Robinson, J.R. Smith,  Gerald Green and others a lot less than you guys tend to.

 

I will answer @TheNorthCydeRises post later. I am with the family right now.

[bird_dirt]

This thread has too many long winded rants and not enough gifs. Where's @kg01 when you need him?