Chris Paul to the Rockets??

[capstone21]

Thats the latest rumor and talk about a terrible fit ... he and Harden are two players that shouldn't play together ... see Nash and Kobe.

[lethalweapon3]

CP3: Cleared for Takeoff!

~lw3

[capstone21]

Wow, that didn't take long.  I think he is a terrible fit next to Harden but we will see.  interesting to see what will happen ... The Rockets didn't even have to give up any real value for him.  

I wonder what this means for the Clippers?  Are they starting over again?  Is Blake going elsewhere too?  Until recently the CLippers have been the worst franchise in sports ... I wonder if they go back to that ... Lakers are up and coming and CLippers are going downward.

[frosgrim]

9 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

Wow, that didn't take long.  I think he is a terrible fit next to Harden but we will see.  interesting to see what will happen ... The Rockets didn't even have to give up any real value for him.  

I wonder what this means for the Clippers?  Are they starting over again?  Is Blake going elsewhere too?  Until recently the CLippers have been the worst franchise in sports ... I wonder if they go back to that ... Lakers are up and coming and CLippers are going downward.

I agree, the Clippers got little for Paul. But what is his real value around the league. Older, small PG, who tends to fade in the playoffs. 

I also agree this is a strange pairing with Harden. I guess the thinking is to lessen the burden on Harden so he doesn't fade in the playoffs (though I think that is a mental issue v. physical). 

Clippers have to be starting over. I wonder if Millsap is the consolation prize for the teams that don't get Blake? 

[BrazilianHawk]

Perhaps Millsap stays with us, after all. One can hope. Blake Wouldn't want to stay without CP3, would he? That move has "rebuild" written all over it, so...

Back to irrelevance go the Clippers. Their fanbase must be overjoyed right now. Another 15-20 years to get back to where they have been the last couple years.

[AHF]

I see Paul saying that the chance to play off the ball was a big enticement to go to the Rockets.  

[ATLSmith]

This is a strange fit but I think this actually makes the Rockets a bit better.

[lethalweapon3]

#superteam...

Speaking of DeAndres and Dallas, how's Mark Cuban doing this morning?

~lw3

[Plainview1981]

Hard to blame him.

The Clippers accomplished all they were going to accomplish. Sooner or later you have to try something different.

[ATLien_]

40 minutes ago, frosgrim said:

I agree, the Clippers got little for Paul. But what is his real value around the league. Older, small PG, who tends to fade in the playoffs. 

I also agree this is a strange pairing with Harden. I guess the thinking is to lessen the burden on Harden so he doesn't fade in the playoffs (though I think that is a mental issue v. physical). 

Clippers have to be starting over. I wonder if Millsap is the consolation prize for the teams that don't get Blake? 

Chris Paul produced 10.4 win shares in his rookie year. Dennis Schröder has produced 7.6 Win Shares for his entire career and had 3.7 last year. Chris Paul has played 12 years and never had an Ortg less than Drtg, my man Dennis has never had an Ortg surpass his Drtg per 100 possessions; translation Dennis has never produced more offense than he's given up. Chris Paul top 3 career similarity scores Magic Johnson, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson. Dennis top 3 career similarity scores Frank Kudelka, Andrew Anderson and Bill Tosheff.  Not crapping on your post; I just want your realize how outlandish the first part of it sounds.

I like Dennis too, so it's not a bash Dennis post. It's just Chris Paul is a huge upgrade for anyone, although I don't like the fit with Harden either. However, let's not forget Harden didn't always dominate the ball in his career. He blended well with KD and Westbrook.

I really wish the Hawks were in a better place so some of these stars would be trying to come here. We are seeing one of the biggest movements of stars in NBA history, and we're not ready to capitalize. I don't see how we couldn't put together a better package than what the Clippers just got, but we have nothing for Chris to play with if we trade our young assets away. This off season is making me sad.

[Thomas]

Wasn't that long ago that Ballmer stated being the best team in L.A. falls way short of their goals of bringing a championship home. Figure those odds moving forward now. Jeez.

[Alex]

24 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Hard to blame him.

The Clippers accomplished all they were going to accomplish. Sooner or later you have to try something different.

Imagine that...what a concept that is.  

[sturt]

While I compliment Morey on his aggressiveness, there is such a thing as chasing players past their prime, and Morey might be making a name for himself for just that.

I'm about as impressed with this idea as I was with the acquisition of Dwight.

And I find it interesting this all goes down on the same day that another NBA name is let go after such a fantabulous celebration in New York back when he arrived as that team's magic tonic. Seems to be a theme here.

[frosgrim]

55 minutes ago, ATLien_ said:

Chris Paul produced 10.4 win shares in his rookie year. Dennis Schröder has produced 7.6 Win Shares for his entire career and had 3.7 last year. Chris Paul has played 12 years and never had an Ortg less than Drtg, my man Dennis has never had an Ortg surpass his Drtg per 100 possessions; translation Dennis has never produced more offense than he's given up. Chris Paul top 3 career similarity scores Magic Johnson, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson. Dennis top 3 career similarity scores Frank Kudelka, Andrew Anderson and Bill Tosheff.  Not crapping on your post; I just want your realize how outlandish the first part of it sounds.

I like Dennis too, so it's not a bash Dennis post. It's just Chris Paul is a huge upgrade for anyone, although I don't like the fit with Harden either. However, let's not forget Harden didn't always dominate the ball in his career. He blended well with KD and Westbrook.

I really wish the Hawks were in a better place so some of these stars would be trying to come here. We are seeing one of the biggest movements of stars in NBA history, and we're not ready to capitalize. I don't see how we couldn't put together a better package than what the Clippers just got, but we have nothing for Chris to play with if we trade our young assets away. This off season is making me sad.

I don't think you get what I was getting at. It was: 1) that the Clippers got a descent PG plus JAGs but no draft picks for Paul= lower value that you'd think you'd get for the production you stated; 2) Paul is getting up there is years and is slowing down due to injury;  3) that Paul hasn't led his team past the second round of the playoffs, ever. As with QBs, playoff success is both a function of the individual play as well  as the team's by the quality of the opponent; however, Paul hasn't been able to will his team even to a conference finals. 

So, it is great that you posted that Paul is a very good player, it wasn't the point of my post. In fact, what you posted actually argues for my point. 

[Dnice]

Well ya girl can hang out on the coast with Sam now.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, ATLien_ said:

Chris Paul produced 10.4 win shares in his rookie year. Dennis Schröder has produced 7.6 Win Shares for his entire career and had 3.7 last year. Chris Paul has played 12 years and never had an Ortg less than Drtg, my man Dennis has never had an Ortg surpass his Drtg per 100 possessions; translation Dennis has never produced more offense than he's given up. Chris Paul top 3 career similarity scores Magic Johnson, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson. Dennis top 3 career similarity scores Frank Kudelka, Andrew Anderson and Bill Tosheff.  Not crapping on your post; I just want your realize how outlandish the first part of it sounds.

I like Dennis too, so it's not a bash Dennis post. It's just Chris Paul is a huge upgrade for anyone, although I don't like the fit with Harden either. However, let's not forget Harden didn't always dominate the ball in his career. He blended well with KD and Westbrook.

I really wish the Hawks were in a better place so some of these stars would be trying to come here. We are seeing one of the biggest movements of stars in NBA history, and we're not ready to capitalize. I don't see how we couldn't put together a better package than what the Clippers just got, but we have nothing for Chris to play with if we trade our young assets away. This off season is making me sad.

How can we put together a better package, when the GM is quick to pull the trigger and get rid of one of our biggest assets . . . to make us "flexible"?

[AHF]

Guys - The Clippers had no leverage in this trade.  Paul told them he was going to exercise his out clause and leave the team to join the Rockets.  They then crawled over to Houston and pitched them on the cap advantages of doing this through a sign and trade where they could get rid of some players they don't care about losing and where LA would pick up a protected first round pick.  If LAC had tried to trade Paul when he was under contract without an option to leave they would have gotten a lot more.

[capstone21]

Harden will have to really change his game dramatically for this to work.  CP3's success is centered around his ability to run the offense.  You don't acquire him to play off the ball.  Looks good on paper but chemistry wise it doesn't look good at all.

[ATLien_]

2 hours ago, frosgrim said:

I don't think you get what I was getting at. It was: 1) that the Clippers got a descent PG plus JAGs but no draft picks for Paul= lower value that you'd think you'd get for the production you stated; 2) Paul is getting up there is years and is slowing down due to injury;  3) that Paul hasn't led his team past the second round of the playoffs, ever. As with QBs, playoff success is both a function of the individual play as well  as the team's by the quality of the opponent; however, Paul hasn't been able to will his team even to a conference finals. 

So, it is great that you posted that Paul is a very good player, it wasn't the point of my post. In fact, what you posted actually argues for my point. 

I think his player option to opt out gave him a defacto no trade clause, so Houston had no competition. If they send him to a team that's offering more, but he threatens to opt out; the receiving team backs away. Chris Paul has no incentive to weaken the team he's wants to got to, so he get's traded where he wants with little coming back. The alternative is losing him for nothing as he opts out, so it's probably not as bad a hull as we think. I think they did get a first too, so I'm actually mildly impressed. I hope we can swing something like this for Millsap too, but I think he has already opted out.

[ATLien_]

51 minutes ago, AHF said:

Guys - The Clippers had no leverage in this trade.  Paul told them he was going to exercise his out clause and leave the team to join the Rockets.  They then crawled over to Houston and pitched them on the cap advantages of doing this through a sign and trade where they could get rid of some players they don't care about losing and where LA would pick up a protected first round pick.  If LAC had tried to trade Paul when he was under contract without an option to leave they would have gotten a lot more.

Exactly, I don't think it has anything to do with his injury history or declining as a player because he still produced 10 ish win shares last year. That is ironically his lowest total in the last 6 years, but clearly still far superior to most player in the NBA. I would like to see Chris Paul win a ring. He's never been on a team I thought should win a championship. Before Blake the best player he ever played with was David West, and Blake always get's injured in or before the playoffs.