Only five teams with projected cap-space

[aali34]

http://hoopshype.com/2017/09/14/only-five-nba-teams-project-to-have-cap-space-for-2018-offseason/

[hazer]

It's definitely about to get interesting and fun around here.

[hazer]

There's that term "flexibility" Colonel Schlenk kept referring to. Quite possibly, just maybe, has a feasible plan...

[KB21]

1.  Who, exactly, would be the target free agent for Atlanta in the 2018 offseason?

2.  Will the league wide "hold" on signing free agent contracts due to the capped out teams keep the salaries down for the "role" players who have been getting significantly overpaid in the previous market?

[Diesel]

That's not the issue.

Which of those 5 teams can attack Free agents...  If we think about that the rankings are:

Lakers>Mavs>Bulls>Pacers>>>>Hawks.

 

I read that and I thought to myself.  I know Atlanta Fans want to hold on to the Capspace with GIJoe Cobra grip....but maybe we shouldn't.  If there is a decent 2018 Free agent target, Maybe Atlanta ought to be in the Helping teams clear Space to get them plan...

For Instance, LAL may want to get Lebron and Westbrook  to run with Ball and Ingram.  IF that be the case, then maybe we should be willing to trade a first for Jordan Clarkson.  its time for us to catch some prestars.

[AHF]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

For Instance, LAL may want to get Lebron and Westbrook  to run with Ball and Ingram.  IF that be the case, then maybe we should be willing to trade a first for Jordan Clarkson.  its time for us to catch some prestars.

Spit take on the idea of us trading a first for Clarkson.  Our firsts the next few years are our lottery tickets (probably in a fairly literal sense).  Totally not worth that.  A guy who does little more than score and isn't a great shooter isn't worth giving away your picks while you are building.

[High5]

Unfortunately it doesn't quite jive with our timeline. But Schlenk can still get value from it. Hopefully.

[Diesel]

20 hours ago, AHF said:

Spit take on the idea of us trading a first for Clarkson.  Our firsts the next few years are our lottery tickets (probably in a fairly literal sense).  Totally not worth that.  A guy who does little more than score and isn't a great shooter isn't worth giving away your picks while you are building.

It don't have to be our lottery picks.. and it doesn't have to be Clarkson.  What i'm saying is that now is the time for us to be more interested in a product that is on it way than us putting all of our hope in another midrounder (down the road). 

 

[Buzzard]

On 9/20/2017 at 0:47 PM, Diesel said:

That's not the issue.

Which of those 5 teams can attack Free agents...  If we think about that the rankings are:

Lakers>Mavs>Bulls>Pacers>>>>Hawks.

 

I read that and I thought to myself.  I know Atlanta Fans want to hold on to the Capspace with GIJoe Cobra grip....but maybe we shouldn't.  If there is a decent 2018 Free agent target, Maybe Atlanta ought to be in the Helping teams clear Space to get them plan...

For Instance, LAL may want to get Lebron and Westbrook  to run with Ball and Ingram.  IF that be the case, then maybe we should be willing to trade a first for Jordan Clarkson.  its time for us to catch some prestars.

Our value to being an attractive free agent market will be reliant on how well our young team plays. If Schröder, Prince, Bembry, and Collins show they have the hops to be significant we will be attractive. If we fall on our butt, not many will want to come here.

I don't think much of Dallas, Indiana, and the Bulls. If we outplay them, then dollar for dollar we could attract someone over them. LA has the star power even if they suck.

[Diesel]

53 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Our value to being an attractive free agent market will be reliant on how well our young team plays. If Schröder, Prince, Bembry, and Collins show they have the hops to be significant we will be attractive. If we fall on our butt, not many will want to come here.

I don't think much of Dallas, Indiana, and the Bulls. If we outplay them, then dollar for dollar we could attract someone over them. LA has the star power even if they suck.

I have to disagree. 

These superteams are being built by guys getting with other vet guys.  Not guys going to guys who are young and up and coming.  Otherwise, Minny and Philly would have been high on every free agent's list.

Wherever there's a pattern, I say F the pattern and let's see if we can do something less mainstream but great.   When we brought in Bud, his coaching was not the pattern at that time, but it was less mainstream and great.   I say that as far as GMing goes, the moves we make ought not be free up capspace and hope that superstars see something in Dennis that they like.... That's not going to happen...1 and Dennis is not that good...2.  

Instead, we should try to be the team that builds a superteam stopper by going back to the complete team model.   Basketball runs through it's fads but always go back to the tried and true tested model of the 5 positions dominated by a dominate Big.  I think we're going back to that again.   There are too many good bigs in the league for there not to be a team to figure out that Size overcomes shooting. 

 

[Buzzard]

30 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I have to disagree. 

These superteams are being built by guys getting with other vet guys.  Not guys going to guys who are young and up and coming.  Otherwise, Minny and Philly would have been high on every free agent's list.

Wherever there's a pattern, I say F the pattern and let's see if we can do something less mainstream but great.   When we brought in Bud, his coaching was not the pattern at that time, but it was less mainstream and great.   I say that as far as GMing goes, the moves we make ought not be free up capspace and hope that superstars see something in Dennis that they like.... That's not going to happen...1 and Dennis is not that good...2.  

Instead, we should try to be the team that builds a superteam stopper by going back to the complete team model.   Basketball runs through it's fads but always go back to the tried and true tested model of the 5 positions dominated by a dominate Big.  I think we're going back to that again.   There are too many good bigs in the league for there not to be a team to figure out that Size overcomes shooting. 

 

Unfortunately the 3pt shot is not a fad; it is a proven and efficient weapon. I am not saying a good big who can rebound and defend is not needed; but even that definition has changed some with players like Draymond Green and KAT being able to do that and step out to take a three.

Using Minny as your example is weak. The only raved about FA that changed teams was Hayward and he went to a very good young team. Minny did sign the 2nd best FA PG that changed teams this season in Teague ( some may say he is better than Hill ) and signed Taj Gibson. I think Minny did pretty well in signing two good vets to be honest.

[AHF]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

It don't have to be our lottery picks.. and it doesn't have to be Clarkson.  What i'm saying is that now is the time for us to be more interested in a product that is on it way than us putting all of our hope in another midrounder (down the road). 

 

But who is trading a young stud for a midrounder?  I mean keep your eyes open and try to trade for the next Steve Nash or James Harden but those are rare situations (and require lottery picks more often than not).  

More frequently you will end up with a Tim Hardaway for your midrounder.  A guy who has already burned a chunk of his team controlled time; whose upside is well below star level; and whose game has some promise and obvious flaws.   Why go down that road again?  I don't want the next Timmy.  I'd rather use that #15 pick and try to land the next Giannis or Kawhi.  Once that kid is drafted, the team that holds his rights won't give him up until you have a gun to their head ala Kyrie Irving.

[Buzzard]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

But who is trading a young stud for a midrounder?  I mean keep your eyes open and try to trade for the next Steve Nash or James Harden but those are rare situations (and require lottery picks more often than not).  

More frequently you will end up with a Tim Hardaway for your midrounder.  A guy who has already burned a chunk of his team controlled time; whose upside is well below star level; and whose game has some promise and obvious flaws.   Why go down that road again?  I don't want the next Timmy.  I'd rather use that #15 pick and try to land the next Giannis or Kawhi.  Once that kid is drafted, the team that holds his rights won't give him up until you have a gun to their head ala Kyrie Irving.

I never want to give up picks either. Like you say, a mid first rounder will get us a middling vet in return. Better to roll the dice with the pick. I am excited about seeing how our young team performs. If they surprise me; that cap money of ours could be attractive to at least one decent FA.

[KB21]

So basically, what I'm seeing in this thread is what I've felt all along.  Rebuilding sucks.  

The reason it sucks is that if you rely on building your team through the draft, it's going to take 5-6 years of sucking to get the team you want if everyone develops properly.  Relying on youth is not going to attract legitimate free agents either.  

We could decide to overpay in free agency, but that will do nothing but cap us out with a mediocre team.

This team is not going to be able to attract quality free agents with the level of success they are about to experience.  I guess I should say lack of success.  

 

[AHF]

20 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So basically, what I'm seeing in this thread is what I've felt all along.  Rebuilding sucks.  

The reason it sucks is that if you rely on building your team through the draft, it's going to take 5-6 years of sucking to get the team you want if everyone develops properly.  Relying on youth is not going to attract legitimate free agents either.  

We could decide to overpay in free agency, but that will do nothing but cap us out with a mediocre team.

This team is not going to be able to attract quality free agents with the level of success they are about to experience.  I guess I should say lack of success.  

 

You have to get an MVP-level star to compete for a title in this league.  Without a star, you are doomed to be on the outside looking in.  How do you attract stars?  By having one or more stars  yourself.  You can't do that when your best player is at the Al Horford or Joe Johnson level (i.e., never in the MVP discussion and when they hit the All-Star game people forget they were even there).

On a related note, ESPN is officially pumping your guy Doncic as the #1 pick for next year.  I think I've seen 3 articles there this week promoting him as the top prospect for next year's draft.

[Sothron]

News flash: we couldn't attract free agents when we were "that one guy" away from maybe winning a title or at least being in the running for one. Complaining that rebuilding suddenly means we can't sign guys is a bit silly. We have never been able to sign guys.

 

We need to win our lottery pick next year and hope that kid and the expected growth of our guys will maaaaybe lure someone. Grant Hill can at least recruit more than anyone we've had before.

 

 

[BrazilianHawk]

... I would like the tankers to say, how many years this rebuild will take again?

 

5+ to even reach the playoffs in a putrid East. Book it.

[AHF]

5 hours ago, BrazilianHawk said:

... I would like the tankers to say, how many years this rebuild will take again?

 

5+ to even reach the playoffs in a putrid East. Book it.

Hard to say anything other than it depends.  How well will we draft?  What position in the draft will we have?  Who will be the impact (draft eligible) players the next few years?

Could be quick.  Could take a while.  Depends on how we do.

And some are predicting we make the playoffs this season.

[bleachkit]

We have to knock it out of the park in the draft,  a generational talent. That's the only way.

[Diesel]

On 9/21/2017 at 4:55 PM, Buzzard said:

Unfortunately the 3pt shot is not a fad; it is a proven and efficient weapon. I am not saying a good big who can rebound and defend is not needed; but even that definition has changed some with players like Draymond Green and KAT being able to do that and step out to take a three.

Using Minny as your example is weak. The only raved about FA that changed teams was Hayward and he went to a very good young team. Minny did sign the 2nd best FA PG that changed teams this season in Teague ( some may say he is better than Hill ) and signed Taj Gibson. I think Minny did pretty well in signing two good vets to be honest.

The live by the 3pter teams are a fad.  Just wait and you will see.  A team in the mold of Jordan's Bulls will come along.. shut off the ball, close down the perimeter, and force those kind of teams to work in the middle.  Sure basketball is a bit softer now, but basketball is and always will be about matchups.. and fads like these and Fastbreak offense and Westhead offense and 6'8" PGs and Point fowards always comes and goes.   And THE GAME always reverts back to big man dominated teams.  We see it coming.  The stretch 4 will be just as useless as Al Horford vs. the Cavs.