Preseason Game 2: Hawks at Cavaliers

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Hes done nothing tangible in real NBA games yet. 

That being said, I'm willing to bet he is a real baller given playing time. You can hold me to that. 

He is key in my opinion because he can handle the rock better than anyone on the team not named Dennis.

He also knows how to find teammates in scoring position as opposed to most of our roster.

He is very athletic and a savvy defender at a young age and should only get better.

He isn't a pure shooter which is his only knock, but yet he finds ways to create offense and score. 

He isn't a guy you ask to come in and stay in the corner and wait for the ball. He is someone who needs to be involved in the action. 

I could be wrong about him, but I am confident that I'm not. I have more faith in him now than I ever did in Baze. 

I will hold you to it.   My thinking though is he is another guy with no shot and athleticism who can handle the ball.  He's Baze 2.1 but not as good on defense as Baze 1.0. 

[StephenHawking]

vor 32 Minuten, Diesel sagte:

I will hold you to it.   My thinking though is he is another guy with no shot and athleticism who can handle the ball.  He's Baze 2.1 but not as good on defense as Baze 1.0. 

He is athletic and a better defender than baze. Every game he played last regular season he shut down the best opposing player. Best defending guard we have

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

I will hold you to it.   My thinking though is he is another guy with no shot and athleticism who can handle the ball.  He's Baze 2.1 but not as good on defense as Baze 1.0. 

He already is a better ballhandler and passer than Baze.  He was an excellent defender in college and an active rebounder.  He showed a few moments as a defender last year but I'd guess he still has plenty to learn.  Open question how he compares to Baze on D.  His shot has been broken to date, much worse than Baze.

[Lurker]

Diesel's fascination with Bazemore and hating on Bembry might be worse than fascination with Dwight and REALLY hating Dennis (just saying, not hating). Bembry might be a nobody but you don't know until you play him and he had moments outside of garbo time.

The shot is a big worry. He has everything but that. But it's not like Bazemore is a "The face of the Franchise". He's not. He's an average role guy at best...even in THIS case, sorry.

[JTB]

8 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Does our starting 5 have enough shooting?

Geeeezzz you know that is really a excellent question but I must say based on what I’ve seen from baze as being the primary 2nd ball handler/go to play maker in the starting lineup after Dennis....I almost want to make an argument that a ball handler/playmaker is way more important than another shooter for this team.

i guess all in all...I feel baze hasn’t really improved his playmaking ability from last season and this year so far in the preseason  it can be argued that he may have even regressed in the ball handling department even more and though he’s a capable decent 3pt shooter and at the current time way better than Bembry....I would still rather go with Bembrys potential as the starter at SG over baze even though he hasn’t really had a true chance in the NBA consistently.

bembry is just a more natural ball handler and playmaker where baze everything is forced.

[JTB]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Diesel's fascination with Bazemore and hating on Bembry might be worse than fascination with Dwight and REALLY hating Dennis (just saying, not hating). Bembry might be a nobody but you don't know until you play him and he had moments outside of garbo time.

The shot is a big worry. He has everything but that. But it's not like Bazemore is a "The face of the Franchise". He's not. He's an average role guy at best...even in THIS case, sorry.

Right I mean I think baze can’t really be at his best unless he plays beside an true SF who’s a playmaker.

[JTB]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

He already is a better ballhandler and passer than Baze.  He was an excellent defender in college and an active rebounder.  He showed a few moments as a defender last year but I'd guess he still has plenty to learn.  Open question how he compares to Baze on D.  His shot has been broken to date, much worse than Baze.

Yeah this whole thing about Bembry vs Baze is a pick ya poison ya know.

i rather have one less shooter in the starting lineup than the current only one ball handler/ capable playmaker in the starting lineup .

Bembry > Baze for me

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

Diesel's fascination with Bazemore and hating on Bembry might be worse than fascination with Dwight and REALLY hating Dennis (just saying, not hating). Bembry might be a nobody but you don't know until you play him and he had moments outside of garbo time.

The shot is a big worry. He has everything but that. But it's not like Bazemore is a "The face of the Franchise". He's not. He's an average role guy at best...even in THIS case, sorry.

We can get rid of both of them.  IF we could trade them both for a late first, I would... and start Dorsey or Jenkins...  How bout that for an agenda.

[AHF]

11 hours ago, Diesel said:

We can get rid of both of them.  IF we could trade them both for a late first, I would... and start Dorsey or Jenkins...  How bout that for an agenda.

I'd deal Baze for a late first but not Bembry.  I still want to see what we have in him.  Even if his shot is broken (and he did lead his team in scoring in college and averaged over 17 points on 48% shooting his last year so I'm not sure he can't Chillz himself to some scoring), I still hold promise he can be a useful playmaker and defender at a good price on his rookie deal.  He showed high BBIQ and was very active in college - 7.8 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.4 spg and 0.8 bpg his junior year (very similar his sophmore year).

[rd79]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'd deal Baze for a late first but not Bembry.  I still want to see what we have in him.  Even if his shot is broken (and he did lead his team in scoring in college and averaged over 17 points on 48% shooting his last year so I'm not sure he can't Chillz himself to some scoring), I still hold promise he can be a useful playmaker and defender at a good price on his rookie deal.  He showed high BBIQ and was very active in college - 7.8 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.4 spg and 0.8 bpg his junior year (very similar his sophmore year).

Everybody would love to get a late 1st for Baze and his salary... Unfortunately I doubt anybody wants to do it the other way around...

[HawkItus]

I don't understand the issue with Baze.  He is subpar, yes.  But, his contract is not prohibitive to anything we are trying to do.  On the contrary it may be beneficial should we come across an opportunity.

 

 

 

[AHF]

17 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

I don't understand the issue with Baze.  He is subpar, yes.  But, his contract is not prohibitive to anything we are trying to do.  On the contrary it may be beneficial should we come across an opportunity.

 

His contract is toxic.  If  he was producting at a $15M rate and getting paid $17M that would be fine.  Producing at a $7M rate and getting paid $17M means you have to pay someone else to take that contract.  As his contract starts to run down, he will become a more palatable piece of filler in a trade but he isn't an attractive trade candidate.  He is more like Plumlee - a guy the other team doesn't want at all but might have to take to make the numbers work if they are desperate.

He is not good enough to derail anything we are trying to do right now so it isn't nearly as big a deal as it would be if we were trying to sign a stud FA or two.  However, it runs for several more years and may end up being an obstacle to something we want to do down the line.  

[DBac]

Thought Bembry looked pretty good in those stints guarding Lebron and Harden last year. Looked even better on offense in summer league too.

[HawkItus]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

His contract is toxic.  If  he was producting at a $15M rate and getting paid $17M that would be fine.  Producing at a $7M rate and getting paid $17M means you have to pay someone else to take that contract.  As his contract starts to run down, he will become a more palatable piece of filler in a trade but he isn't an attractive trade candidate.  He is more like Plumlee - a guy the other team doesn't want at all but might have to take to make the numbers work if they are desperate.

He is not good enough to derail anything we are trying to do right now so it isn't nearly as big a deal as it would be if we were trying to sign a stud FA or two.  However, it runs for several more years and may end up being an obstacle to something we want to do down the line.  

I don't see it.  What exactly are we trying to accomplish where his contract is toxic?   He is steady number on our books.  He isn't eligible for an extension, nor is he close to FA.  He doesn't disrupt our losing or negatively affect the young guys in the locker room.  His contract stinks, but time has proven that player can be retired due to injury with a big cap number and still be traded.   If we ever need to move him I am sure we can.   Even if it is for to smaller bad contracts like we did with Howard.  I just don't see the issue.  We are 3 years away from making any significant moves.   He is a none issue.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, HawkItus said:

I don't see it.  What exactly are we trying to accomplish where his contract is toxic?   He is steady number on our books.  He isn't eligible for an extension, nor is he close to FA.  He doesn't disrupt our losing or negatively affect the young guys in the locker room.  His contract stinks, but time has proven that player can be retired due to injury with a big cap number and still be traded.   If we ever need to move him I am sure we can.   Even if it is for to smaller bad contracts like we did with Howard.  I just don't see the issue.  We are 3 years away from making any significant moves.   He is a none issue.

Toxic means you have to give up assets to get rid of him.  We had to do that with Howard, dropping in the draft and taking on a terrible contract on a player who can barely get minutes in the NBA.

Timing is good for us holding a toxic contract but it doesn't make it any better.  Baze is a good team's 8th or 9th best player who is getting paid like a good team's 3rd best player.

[Thomas]

On 10/6/2017 at 0:20 PM, DBac said:

Thought Bembry looked pretty good in those stints guarding Lebron and Harden last year.

Bembry did what no one else could do for us in those situations. Thabo injured from the get go and Baze not being consistently what he was/is touted from some of us and Bud as well on defense. Prince has the size but is a serious step behind Bembry on defense no doubt. We'll see plenty of Bembry as our stopper against the opponents hot hand whether at the one, two or three. Be interesting to see how that pans out with lots of minutes this season.