It's Time to Pull the Plug on the Stop Gap at the 4!

[LastDon]

Erasan would be better served as a more featured reserve..Yeah he draws a few charges but he doesn't protect the rim and the spacing that he  so call provide is overrated with his Slow release allowing defenders to close out on him too easily..

With the second unit maybe he would have the ball more in areas where he can create some offense..Watching him jus standing on the perimeter has been disgusting because defenders are still sagging off him in help defense and getting back in time before he catches and releases that slow shot..We are basically playing 4 on 5 with him on the floor..He is playing as a more older type of player than his age states as the rumors have suggested..frfr..smh

That man has been ineffective all preaseason and this ineffectiveness has continued in to the regular season..This sample size of games is large enough to help us understand that Ersan isn't the answer long term at the 4 and isn't a good fit for the starting lineup..

Its time to start John Collins and allow Dedmon to masquerade as the spacer with Collins playing inside..Collins brings another dynamic with the pressure he puts on the rim in pick in roll..The threat of him rolling will also open up things for Schröder if Schröder would put forth a concentrated effort in gettin others involved..

Collins  has shown nimble feet on switches with the pick and roll which was a concern that I think has been alleviated..I think rim protection is more valuable than Ersan's charge drawing..Solid rim protection not only is blocking shots but contesting and altering them as well..Which is another reason why Collins is more valuable than illysova..

Let's stop playing charades and move forward with the Future!

Edited October 21, 2017 by LastDon

[Thomas]

Seems Baptist is playing more at center than PF right now, at least in the so called regular rotation. Certainly better suited at PF as last night displayed though not everyone puts a monster on the floor at C so matchups can work at both spots depending on who we play. To your point I think everyone was ready for Collins to get starter type minutes before the season started and I agree with that but Bud didn't start Prince till the last two or three weeks of the season last year and really there had been no choice other than him starting thirty or more games before it happened. A pretty reluctant coach with rookies and big minutes no matter what. Think we'll get there this season but its going to have to be way more than obvious for the Budster to finally start him. Certainly hoping I'm wrong with the timeline. 

[cam1218]

I’m not disagreeing with you because I see why he should be starting too, but it makes sense to bring him off the bench for now. I think it’ll be good for him to earn his starting role, shouldn’t just be handed to him. He needs to limit his fouls too, and if he picks up a quick two against the opposing teams starter he might start pressing. I think we will see him starting by February.

I’m a little bummed with Ilyasova’s play thus far, hopefully he can start making his wide open looks.

[Wurider05]

I notice that Bud is using him in the center spot more than at the PF.

[Thomas]

15 hours ago, cam1218 said:

I’m a little bummed with Ilyasova’s play thus far, hopefully he can start making his wide open looks.

Yeah, his game was so off against the Hornets he ended up with frustration fouls which is really not like him. He is actually known for being savvy and on the other end of those type of fouls. Don't think I have seen him look so poorly with his overall game before. His one very good play was taking a charge against Dwight and thats about all I remember. But you know, today is a new day and against the Nets am expecting lots of open shots for just about everyone so we'll see lots of action for our shooters. Heres hoping we connect from deep. 

[sillent]

On 10/21/2017 at 4:16 PM, LastDon said:

Erasan would be better served as a more featured reserve..Yeah he draws a few charges but he doesn't protect the rim and the spacing that he  so call provide is overrated with his Slow release allowing defenders to close out on him too easily..

With the second unit maybe he would have the ball more in areas where he can create some offense..Watching him jus standing on the perimeter has been disgusting because defenders are still sagging off him in help defense and getting back in time before he catches and releases that slow shot..We are basically playing 4 on 5 with him on the floor..He is playing as a more older type of player than his age states as the rumors have suggested..frfr..smh

That man has been ineffective all preaseason and this ineffectiveness has continued in to the regular season..This sample size of games is large enough to help us understand that Ersan isn't the answer long term at the 4 and isn't a good fit for the starting lineup..

Its time to start John Collins and allow Dedmon to masquerade as the spacer with Collins playing inside..Collins brings another dynamic with the pressure he puts on the rim in pick in roll..The threat of him rolling will also open up things for Schröder if Schröder would put forth a concentrated effort in gettin others involved..

Collins  has shown nimble feet on switches with the pick and roll which was a concern that I think has been alleviated..I think rim protection is more valuable than Ersan's charge drawing..Solid rim protection not only is blocking shots but contesting and altering them as well..Which is another reason why Collins is more valuable than illysova..

Let's stop playing charades and move forward with the Future!

The only issue with this is that we'd have to play Irsan & Muscala off the bench around the same time and that might negate any lead/defense we'd have with our starters.

[Alex]

The entire team is a stop gap.

[frosgrim]

What is encouraging to me is that Collins seems to be getting the offense quickly. Bud seems to want vets because they've seen it all and, in theory, can make good decisions about passing, cutting, and screening.  Collins seems to the exception to that rule and is making, for the most part, smart choices with the ball and his offensive movement.   I do agree with @sillent that Collins gives the bench some  offensive punch. However, given we really don't want to win this year, why not invest in Collins' full growth and get him starting sooner than later? 

[Thomas]

9 hours ago, sillent said:

The only issue with this is that we'd have to play Irsan & Muscala off the bench around the same time and that might negate any lead/defense we'd have with our starters.

That would indeed be a net negative for our plus/minus. Of course there are some lousy backups elsewhere so some hope there. 

[CP61]

I mean, if it were me, I'd  be playing the baptist almost all game and giving him the full green light. I don't even care if we are losing, he gets me hyped. He's getting a bunch of fouls in just 20 minutes though, so we might see him hit the bench early anyway. I say he probably will sit the bench until Ily it Dedmon get moved at the deadline. 

[hawkman]

1 minute ago, CP61 said:

I mean, if it were me, I'd  be playing the baptist almost all game and giving him the full green light. I don't even care if we are losing, he gets me hyped. He's getting a bunch of fouls in just 20 minutes though, so we might see him hit the bench early anyway. I say he probably will sit the bench until Ily it Dedmon get moved at the deadline. 

Collins is a Lottery talent that just happened to fall to us. He already looks like the 2nd best player on this team under Dennis. Bud needs to give him all the minutes he can take AND his teammates need to get him more involved in the offense. I'd like to see him get the ball in the post more as well. My only concern is he may get worn down banging against Centers every game. He's a PF and I'd much rather have him playing next to Dedmon instead of subbing for him.

[aali34]

 

[aali34]

He also outplayed Jarrett Allen who the hawks were interested in before the draft. Thank god we didn't pull that trigger.

 

[KB21]

Collins and Dedmond do not fit together when they are on the court at the same time, at least not until Collins's range on his jump shot becomes consistent.  Both are essentially roll men off the pick and roll at this time, so they would end up clogging things up for the offense if both are on the court.

Now, that brings us to what to do down the road, because I think long term, Collins is better as a power forward and not as a center.  

 

[AHF]

Dedman's jumper is better than I expected for sure.  For me, I just want to see maximum development for Collins.  Pairings in the front court are only relevant to the extent they impact his development.

[CP61]

24 minutes ago, AHF said:

Dedman's jumper is better than I expected for sure.  For me, I just want to see maximum development for Collins.  Pairings in the front court are only relevant to the extent they impact his development.

Yeah. Winning ain't the goal. Getting the young guys better is what's important 

[Sothron]

28 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Collins and Dedmond do not fit together when they are on the court at the same time, at least not until Collins's range on his jump shot becomes consistent.  Both are essentially roll men off the pick and roll at this time, so they would end up clogging things up for the offense if both are on the court.

Now, that brings us to what to do down the road, because I think long term, Collins is better as a power forward and not as a center.  

 

I agree with this. I'd also add both guys are low post players as well. One of them would have to significantly improve their jumper to make that a long term pairing.

That being said I would give Collins all the minutes he can handle and worry about who to pair best with him in the front court.

[High5]

I'm not sure Collins has the stamina to play much more than he's playing now. He looks really tired out there at times.

[hawkman]

1 hour ago, High5 said:

I'm not sure Collins has the stamina to play much more than he's playing now. He looks really tired out there at times.

Banging against Centers is the issue. He's willing to mix it up in the paint, but wrestling with grown men who have 40 to 50lbs over him takes a toll. He's wiry strong right now but he still needs to add size and strength if Bud is going to keep him at center.

[High5]

35 minutes ago, hawkman said:

Banging against Centers is the issue. He's willing to mix it up in the paint, but wrestling with grown men who have 40 to 50lbs over him takes a toll. He's wiry strong right now but he still needs to add size and strength if Bud is going to keep him at center.

I think he may have picked up a few things from playing against Dwight. He really bullied the Nets on some of those rebounds yesterday. He's definitely willing to do the work.