The Tank Thread

[Diesel]

23 hours ago, AHF said:

They overtly tanked to move up in the draft and then used those tank improved picks to take Barnes and Green.  Before that, they intentionally went into the lottery and picked up Curry and Thompson.  They went from a playoff team to a lottery team and stayed in the lottery until they got the assets they needed and that Barnes / Green blatant tank was the final rebuilding push after several years of deliberate rebuilding.  Once they had that young core, they reentered the free agent pool and picked up some nice vets, most notably Iggy.

I'm not a Barnes fan but he was in their top 5 during their championship and 73 win seasons (#5 on the team IMO).  Durant was a big upgrade who only came because of the players they drafted during their rebuild.  That said, they did win a championship and 67 and 73 games with Barnes so Durant's absence wasn't crippling the team at all.  His addition was just a nice upgrade on an already championship level squad.  (Hit that easy button, Kevin!)

I don't think they win those rings in they stay in the 40 win area and keep all the free agents they let walk and the players they traded to improve not their present but their future (flexibility and lottery status).

Uhm... Green was a 2nd round pick.  Come on Man.. stop reaching.     They may have tanked to take Barnes but they would have won a championship without Barnes.    That doesn't say anything redeemable about tanking.  Moreover, when the new owner took over, he developed a new way of doing things... a culture.  I outlined that earlier and you ignored it.   He did not come in looking at tanking as being the only way to success.

Schlenk has departed that philosophy. 

[TheFuzz]

42 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Uhm... Green was a 2nd round pick.  Come on Man.. stop reaching.     They may have tanked to take Barnes but they would have won a championship without Barnes.    That doesn't say anything redeemable about tanking.  Moreover, when the new owner took over, he developed a new way of doing things... a culture.  I outlined that earlier and you ignored it.   He did not come in looking at tanking as being the only way to success.

Schlenk has departed that philosophy. 

But they wouldn't have won without Steph. The rest don't matter as much

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, TheFuzz said:

But they wouldn't have won without Steph. The rest don't matter as much

Yeah.. and Steph was drafted by the old ownership in a non-tank year.   AHF is saying that because the new ownership tanked for Harrison Barnes, GS won the championship.   That's Ludicrous.

 

[DBac]

Dwight's boys lost to da Bulls. Back in 2nd place. Mavs pretty close vs the TWolves which would help our pick and our TWolves pick 

 

edit: Aw TWolves pulled away. #2 for another day.

Edited November 18, 2017 by DBac

[Lurker]

The Charlotte Dwight Howards being 5-9 is hilarious.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Yeah.. and Steph was drafted by the old ownership in a non-tank year.   AHF is saying that because the new ownership tanked for Harrison Barnes, GS won the championship.   That's Ludicrous.

 

BS.  I said they tore down and intentionally entered the lottery and got Curry and Thompson.  Then their talent was improved so they had to flat out tank which moved them up to take Barnes and Green.  Stop changing what I say to shoot down red herrings.  New ownership is irrelevant when the decision to go into the lottery on purpose was part of the same rebuild under both owners.  It started before and the new owners finished it.

[KB21]

I love how it is conveniently left out that Golden State had 7 lottery picks in the 8 drafts prior to getting Steph Curry like they didn't even happen.  Apparently, we aren't counting those years as part of their down time prior to finally getting lucky in the lottery.  

Anthony Randolph, Patrick O'Bryant, Ike Diogu,  Andris Biedrins, Mickael Pietrus, Mike Dunleavy, and Jason Richardson were those picks, and if you want to, prior to drafting Curry, between 1993 and 2009, the Warriors had 12 lottery picks in 16 years, and exactly 2 playoff appearances during that span of time.  

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, Lurker said:

The Charlotte Dwight Howards being 5-9 is hilarious.

@Diesel They turned on your boy

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, AHF said:

BS.  I said they tore down and intentionally entered the lottery and got Curry and Thompson.  Then their talent was improved so they had to flat out tank which moved them up to take Barnes and Green.  Stop changing what I say to shoot down red herrings.  New ownership is irrelevant when the decision to go into the lottery on purpose was part of the same rebuild under both owners.  It started before and the new owners finished it.

You heard Schlenk say that they purposely tanked to get Harrison Barnes and assumed that the Old Ownership were tanking too....  However, the Warriors never tanked for Curry or Klay.  In fact, in Curry's draft, they didn't think they would get him and if they were picking high enough, they would have taken Blake.  If you look at their moves in 2008, they were not seeking to tank... It just happened that they were bad.  They drafted Klay with the 11th pick overall.  If they were trying to tank, almost being in the mid first tells me that they were horrible at it. 

[KB21]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

You heard Schlenk say that they purposely tanked to get Harrison Barnes and assumed that the Old Ownership were tanking too....  However, the Warriors never tanked for Curry or Klay.  In fact, in Curry's draft, they didn't think they would get him and if they were picking high enough, they would have taken Blake.  If you look at their moves in 2008, they were not seeking to tank... It just happened that they were bad.  They drafted Klay with the 11th pick overall.  If they were trying to tank, almost being in the mid first tells me that they were horrible at it. 

Also, if Curry had not been available, their pick would have been Jordan Hill.  Now, how would that have worked out for them.

I'll give them credit for overlooking Steph's lack of elite athleticism and his light frame to see what his shooting ability would bring to the table.  Obviously, not every team was able to overlook the skinny, pale skinned guy who wasn't an elite athlete.  However, I'm not going to believe that Travis Schlenk is some scouting marvel just because Golden State had a run where they landed Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green in the draft.  In fact, if you look at what Golden State has drafted since Draymond, where they used picks to land veteran players, it's really not that impressive overall.  

[AHF]

36 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Also, if Curry had not been available, their pick would have been Jordan Hill.  Now, how would that have worked out for them.

I'll give them credit for overlooking Steph's lack of elite athleticism and his light frame to see what his shooting ability would bring to the table.  Obviously, not every team was able to overlook the skinny, pale skinned guy who wasn't an elite athlete.  However, I'm not going to believe that Travis Schlenk is some scouting marvel just because Golden State had a run where they landed Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green in the draft.  In fact, if you look at what Golden State has drafted since Draymond, where they used picks to land veteran players, it's really not that impressive overall.  

And if Duncan wasn't available San Antonio would not have 4 rings.  And if Jordan wasn't available Chicago wouldn't have 6 rings.

It takes luck and nobody just nails it.  Almost every non-Laker champion goes through misses in the lottery on the way to their championship foundation.

Being in the lottery for a few years before getting your championship core is neither surprising nor unusual.   Winning a championship without building through the lottery is extraordinarily unusual.

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, KB21 said:

Also, if Curry had not been available, their pick would have been Jordan Hill.  Now, how would that have worked out for them.

I'll give them credit for overlooking Steph's lack of elite athleticism and his light frame to see what his shooting ability would bring to the table.  Obviously, not every team was able to overlook the skinny, pale skinned guy who wasn't an elite athlete.  However, I'm not going to believe that Travis Schlenk is some scouting marvel just because Golden State had a run where they landed Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green in the draft.  In fact, if you look at what Golden State has drafted since Draymond, where they used picks to land veteran players, it's really not that impressive overall.  

Moreover, the same guys who draft Curry... did not draft Klay and Draymond... and call him what you want, but Barnes has never lived up to his pick.

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, AHF said:

And if Duncan wasn't available San Antonio would not have 4 rings.  And if Jordan wasn't available Chicago wouldn't have 6 rings.

It takes luck and nobody just nails it.  Almost every non-Laker champion goes through misses in the lottery on the way to their championship foundation.

Being in the lottery for a few years before getting your championship core is neither surprising nor unusual.   Winning a championship without building through the lottery is extraordinarily unusual.

You just gave every fan of Sacramento, Philadelphia, and Brooklyn hope...

It's unfortunate because the truth is that you have to have a culture.

Sheez...  We had how many lottery picks in a row??  No championship.  In fact, the pieces that took us to the ECF was not even part of our draft.. they were acquired in FAcy.  You want to look at San Antonio and Golden State but you want to ignore the teams that are always in the lottery and never in the championship conversation.   And it's quite a few.   Then to top it off, you wrongly suggest that it's the Lottery that makes the difference?

If the Lottery makes the difference... then why doesn't Philly have more championship appearances.  I used them because they have recently adopted the philosophy of tank...

 

1	1	Markelle Fultz	United States	PG	University of Washington
2016	1	1	Ben Simmons	Australia	PF	Louisiana State University
2015	1	3	Jahlil Okafor	United States	C	Duke University
201
2014	1	3	Joel Embiid	Cameroon	C	University of Kansas[1]
2014	1	10	Elfrid Payton	United States	PG	University of Louisiana–Lafayette
2013	1	11	Michael Carter-Williams	United States	PG	Syracuse University
2010	1	2	Evan Turner	United States	SF	Ohio State University
2007	1	12	Thaddeus Young	United States	PF	Georgia Institute of Technology
2006	1	13	Thabo Sefolosha	Switzerland	SG	Pallacanestro Biella (Italy)
2004	1	9	Andre Iguodala	United States	SG/SF	University of Arizona
1998	1	8	Larry Hughes			Saint Louis University
1997	1	2	Keith Van Horn			University of Utah
1996	1	1	Allen Iverson		PG	Georgetown University

 

Now.. .this is the truth...  All these lottery picks.  Over the years.  Lottery Pick after Lottery pick since Iverson.   They have only been to the championship 1 time... and I can argue that the only reason they went then is because we traded Deke to them. 

So you can talk about all the misses...  However, the truth is there are so many misses in the lottery that it doesn't make sense to kill your culture to take a swing and a miss. 

 

[Sothron]

This thread has become two negative nancies versus one sane poster. Don't ever change crazy people, never change.

[NBASupes]

15 hours ago, KB21 said:

Also, if Curry had not been available, their pick would have been Jordan Hill.  Now, how would that have worked out for them.

I'll give them credit for overlooking Steph's lack of elite athleticism and his light frame to see what his shooting ability would bring to the table.  Obviously, not every team was able to overlook the skinny, pale skinned guy who wasn't an elite athlete.  However, I'm not going to believe that Travis Schlenk is some scouting marvel just because Golden State had a run where they landed Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green in the draft.  In fact, if you look at what Golden State has drafted since Draymond, where they used picks to land veteran players, it's really not that impressive overall.  

Stop it. Don't compare Steph to Doncic. Don't. They don't play the same position.

[KB21]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Stop it. Don't compare Steph to Doncic. Don't. They don't play the same position.

Who compared him to Doncic?

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Who compared him to Doncic?

You did. Saying, they took a chance on Curry as if relating it to if Atlanta passes up on Doncic, it's like passing up on Curry. I am telling you to stop it. It's not the case. 

[KB21]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

You did. Saying, they took a chance on Curry as if relating it to if Atlanta passes up on Doncic, it's like passing up on Curry. I am telling you to stop it. It's not the case. 

I was talking about Curry.  I didn't say Doncic in my post at all.  Wasn't even thinking about it. 

[Diesel]

23 hours ago, Sothron said:

This thread has become two negative nancies versus one sane poster. Don't ever change crazy people, never change.

The truth is the people who are for tanking point to San Antonio and Golden State.  The argument is that the lottery did so much for them.  Yet they ignore the 14 other teams who live in the lottery and never sniff championship calibre.   It suggests that maybe getting a lottery pick was secondary to having a culture for winning.  We can go through and show team after team who have had lottery picks and high lottery picks and never came close to the championship.   Philly, I have shown, went to the lottery 11 times in 21 years and they have 1 championship appearance and that was in part due to the fact that we traded Deke to them.  There are several others who are lottery mainstays and they barely make the playoffs.   Then you have some teams that arrive at the championship calibre and it's due to good trades. 

If you don't have the culture, you can draft championship calibre players but they won't stay... Ask OKC about that. 

[noble]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

The truth is the people who are for tanking point to San Antonio and Golden State.  The argument is that the lottery did so much for them.  Yet they ignore the 14 other teams who live in the lottery and never sniff championship calibre.   It suggests that maybe getting a lottery pick was secondary to having a culture for winning.  We can go through and show team after team who have had lottery picks and high lottery picks and never came close to the championship.   Philly, I have shown, went to the lottery 11 times in 21 years and they have 1 championship appearance and that was in part due to the fact that we traded Deke to them.  There are several others who are lottery mainstays and they barely make the playoffs.   Then you have some teams that arrive at the championship calibre and it's due to good trades. 

If you don't have the culture, you can draft championship calibre players but they won't stay... Ask OKC about that. 

You can have a winning culture and not get free agents to get you over the hump to be a championship contender too. I think we all know a team like that.