The Tank Thread

[MaceCase]

1 hour ago, Watchman said:

Kind of hard to build on draft picks when the young draft picks get tired of losing.  Even if we got someone good, these young guys will be sick of losing, and flee at their first opportunity.

 

http://www.ajc.com/sports/taurean-prince-says-tired-losing-after-homecoming-san-antonio/8MAh6QEdFzb54wrVJcRzaP/

Atlanta Hawks forward Taurean Prince was disappointed to leave his home town of San Antonio with a loss on Monday night.

Prince, a second-year player out of Baylor, recorded 18 points and eight rebounds in his homecoming, but was disappointed the Hawks didn’t get the win.

 

“I had a lot of fun but like you said I want to win so that’s most important. I’m tired of losing games,” Prince said after the game to Fox Sports.

Awe gee, all the good feels of starting on a playoff team as a rookie have already worn off 17 games into a losing season?  Man, further reason to wonder just how meaningful treadmilling is to players...fans...owners...GMs...

[MaceCase]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

Boss...that's a windmill you are tilting at.

Aye, it's sometimes where you get the best breeze on a hot day.

[JTB]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/248118/Michael-Porter-Jr-Likely-Out-For-Season-With-Back-Surgery

 

well he’s automatically out the top 3! Maybe top 5..

Edited November 21, 2017 by JTB

[Diesel]

12 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Diesel, bubeleh, bubbe... How can the Hawks lose what they never had? 

4th most playoff appearance since 68', bottom of the barrel attendance, less than a M80 firecracker damaged handful of notable free agent signings, bare minimum national TV games with even playoff games banished to a cable channel that most people don't have...be a mensch and stop tap dancing.

so you think Losing is going to help this or hurt this??

You obviously forgot the last time we decided to lose on purpose.   We became nothing.  We just got over being nothing with the 60 win season and now you because we didn't win it all, you say.. let's go back in the tank and try our luck again.   We don't even have a target that we're tanking for.. just want to have a draft lottery party.   It's sad.  You say that Hawks lose what we never had.. what we had was closeness. 

Let me script it out for you...

• Bud is a lame duck now.. probably fired mid season. 
• we'll bring in some other coach that's high profile like Mark Jackson and sign him to a long deal. 
• We'll take the doc rivers train back to obscurity over the next 5 years...  probably bring in lottery pick after lottery pick.
• Pretty soon, Schlenk will get the axe because:
  • He can't find talent in the top picks.
  • His trades are underwhelming.
  • His free agent acquistions are poor.
• If we do keep a young fella, we will overpay him or he will be tied to Mark Jackson at the hip. 
• Next 10 years waiting to get back in the playoffs. 

 

[hazer]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

It's easier to see....

For the free agent, it's easier to see that you're trying to establish a winning culture when you're making your way towards the goal... than when you thrown in the towel and started over.   

Here's the questions...

How many good free agents sign on to be with rebuilding teams?

Name one team that one a championship right after a firesale??  2 years after a firesale?  5 years after a firesale?

You ask what do the Hawks have to lose by losing??

1. Fanbase.
2. Dignity.
3. Player Respect.
4. TV time
5. Head Coaches that care.

 

That's my top 5 things... those are things that speak to the culture around here.   We've developed a culture of losing by having a firesale and saying that we want to build from the draft.   If there was a dollar for every team that said..we're going to build from the draft... then there would be 100s of dollars somewhere.   A lot of teams say that... how many get to championship calibre??  very very few... 

Tell Orlando to move over... we're getting on the losing treadmill. 

 

And that's where your house of cards crumbles, with this false premise: Hawks had a firesale. Keeping Menace and Fresh Printz ain't a firesale. Had they moved them as well, you'd be correct. They didn't, so you're incorrect. I was tempted to even include Gaze, but just no.

[GThawks3]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/248118/Michael-Porter-Jr-Likely-Out-For-Season-With-Back-Surgery

 

well he’s automatically out the top 3! Maybe top 5..

Wouldn’t be suprised if he still went top 3. 

[hazer]

59 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You obviously forgot the last time we decided to lose on purpose.   We became nothing.

 

STOP. Just stop. This is not the Pete Babcock, Stan Kasten, Lon Kruger, Terry Stotts, Billy Knight, Mike Woodson, Rick Sund, Larry Drew, Atlanta Spirit Group, era. The last time we did a LOT of $hit is irrelevant now. We have a stable and respected ownership of basically Tony Ressler/Grant Hill, a GM with 2 rings who helped build the current Warriors Dynasty, a COTY with 5 rings, a promising trio of Schröder/Prince/Collins already in place, 5 first round picks to add to them, and a reputation of being Hawks U where players shine where they didn't before or since, with assistants like Chris Jent lifting us to 2nd in the NBA in 3-pt%. The difference is obvious. Again, past performance is not an indication of future results. Stop being intellectually lazy and just falling back on old and tired dogma because it's easier than going out on a limb and being open to the possibility that things have changed.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

so you think Losing is going to help this or hurt this??

You obviously forgot the last time we decided to lose on purpose.   We became nothing.  We just got over being nothing with the 60 win season and now you because we didn't win it all, you say.. let's go back in the tank and try our luck again.   We don't even have a target that we're tanking for.. just want to have a draft lottery party.   It's sad.  You say that Hawks lose what we never had.. what we had was closeness. 

Let me script it out for you...

• Bud is a lame duck now.. probably fired mid season. 
• we'll bring in some other coach that's high profile like Mark Jackson and sign him to a long deal. 
• We'll take the doc rivers train back to obscurity over the next 5 years...  probably bring in lottery pick after lottery pick.
• Pretty soon, Schlenk will get the axe because:
  • He can't find talent in the top picks.
  • His trades are underwhelming.
  • His free agent acquistions are poor.
• If we do keep a young fella, we will overpay him or he will be tied to Mark Jackson at the hip. 
• Next 10 years waiting to get back in the playoffs. 

 

Nice use of the bullet points.  Reminds me of some of my e-mails at work.

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

so you think Losing is going to help this or hurt this??

You obviously forgot the last time we decided to lose on purpose.   We became nothing.  We just got over being nothing with the 60 win season and now you because we didn't win it all, you say.. let's go back in the tank and try our luck again.   We don't even have a target that we're tanking for.. just want to have a draft lottery party.   It's sad.  You say that Hawks lose what we never had.. what we had was closeness. 

Let me script it out for you...

• Bud is a lame duck now.. probably fired mid season. 
• we'll bring in some other coach that's high profile like Mark Jackson and sign him to a long deal. 
• We'll take the doc rivers train back to obscurity over the next 5 years...  probably bring in lottery pick after lottery pick.
• Pretty soon, Schlenk will get the axe because:
  • He can't find talent in the top picks.
  • His trades are underwhelming.
  • His free agent acquistions are poor.
• If we do keep a young fella, we will overpay him or he will be tied to Mark Jackson at the hip. 
• Next 10 years waiting to get back in the playoffs. 

 

Bud's doing pretty good to me. 

[MaceCase]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Let me script it out for you...

 

 

Tell me when the Dwight Howard led Atlanta Hawks championship parade would have been so I can cry into my pillow and lament over accepting Schlenk's plan.  And while you are at it, tell me the winning powerball numbers for tomorrow.  Always with the doom and gloom future predictions over the current path trying to pick and chose whatever past precedent suits your agenda all while waxing over the big goose egg that the previous path produced for the majority of the past 50 years.

[Wurider05]

You can scratch Michael Porter Jr. off the wishlist. back surgery  out for the rest of the season. Once they knife the back they never get it right. He is too young to have back problems.

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Bud's doing pretty good to me. 

I need more fans like you instead of those ingrates that question my use of Malcolm and Kent.  Heck even that dude on Locked on Hawks podcast question my use of Kent and Bembry at power forward against San Antonio.  That guy has some nerve!

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2017/11/21/16684036/locked-on-hawks-podcast-spurs-recap-john-collins

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, hazer said:

And that's where your house of cards crumbles, with this false premise: Hawks had a firesale. Keeping Menace and Fresh Printz ain't a firesale. Had they moved them as well, you'd be correct. They didn't, so you're incorrect. I was tempted to even include Gaze, but just no.

• Traded Kyle Korver for Mike Dunleavy's ashy feet fungus. 
• Let Millsap Walk.
• Trade DHoward and gave away a pick in the process. 
• We let THJr walk after trading Oubre for him.

Millsap is a 3 time allstar.  DHoward is a hall of famer. Korver is one of the best shooters this league has seen. 

You say keeping a rookie draft pick and an unproven PG proves that this is not a firesale??  You would have been more convincing if you would have said that keeping Baze made this not a firesale.  I think you need to go back and learn exactly what firesale means... It doesn't mean trade all your players and picks... Just make dumb cap clearing trades for picks (sometimes) to start over.  We did it.and got less back than most teams who do it and people have seen our firesale since Jan of 2017....  

Don't get me wrong, I'm not mad at a firesale but we made some dumb deals and didn't capitalize on nothing and we still have baze.

 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, hazer said:

STOP. Just stop. This is not the Pete Babcock, Stan Kasten, Lon Kruger, Terry Stotts, Billy Knight, Mike Woodson, Rick Sund, Larry Drew, Atlanta Spirit Group, era. The last time we did a LOT of $hit is irrelevant now. 

Uhm.. This is still Atlanta.  Same conditions still apply.   Not  Free agent attractive.  Not a strong fanbase.  1 newspaper town.  What do you think they dealt with??  I mean this is science... If you do the same experiment in the same conditions, you will get very similar results. 

[AHF]

13 hours ago, Diesel said:

Uhm.. This is still Atlanta.  Same conditions still apply.   Not  Free agent attractive.  Not a strong fanbase.  1 newspaper town.  What do you think they dealt with??  I mean this is science... If you do the same experiment in the same conditions, you will get very similar results. 

GS and  Cleveland never attracted top free agents.  Bron left town because he didn't believe in the supporting cast.  Both teams rebuilt in the lottery and signed MVP free agents.  That is not easy but neither team would have landed those FAs with the base of aging talent we had last year.  They changed their free agent recruiting by landing top young talent in the lottery.

[hazer]

13 hours ago, Diesel said:

Uhm.. This is still Atlanta.  Same conditions still apply.   Not  Free agent attractive.  Not a strong fanbase.  1 newspaper town.  What do you think they dealt with??  I mean this is science... If you do the same experiment in the same conditions, you will get very similar results. 

Same conditions apply, until they don't. GS and Cleveland used to not attract free agents either. The ATL basketball TV audience is Top 5 in the nation, put together an exciting young team, land 1 star in trade/FAcy, and start making it deep into the playoffs with a fighting chance and Phillips will stay sold out. Especially since Atlanta is such a transient city, will make the transplants even more eager to see their team from back home play a challenging Hawks team. All Oakland and Cleveland got were the picks then wins then stars, there was nothing else in those towns. If Atlanta gets those picks then wins then stars there's the better weather, cheaper housing, hopping nightlife, foodie town, y'allywood, civil right/hip-hop capital, international bidness hub. Hell, half the NBA lives in ATL in the off-season, they're just looking for an excuse to live here. Give it to them. THIS.....is Atlanta.  

[Diesel]

Quote

GS made trades and picked up free agents like Iguodala.

Sure, the bulk of GSs players came from the draft but there was a culture developed that had more importance than the players.  Because they could have kept Mark Jackson and probably be on the treadmill. 

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, hazer said:

Same conditions apply, until they don't. GS and Cleveland used to not attract free agents either. The ATL basketball TV audience is Top 5 in the nation, put together an exciting young team, land 1 star in trade/FAcy, and start making it deep into the playoffs with a fighting chance and Phillips will stay sold out. Especially since Atlanta is such a transient city, will make the transplants even more eager to see their team from back home play a challenging Hawks team. All Oakland and Cleveland got were the picks then wins then stars, there was nothing else in those towns. If Atlanta gets those picks then wins then stars there's the better weather, cheaper housing, hopping nightlife, foodie town, y'allywood, civil right/hip-hop capital, international bidness hub. Hell, half the NBA lives in ATL in the off-season, they're just looking for an excuse to live here. Give it to them. THIS.....is Atlanta.  

Atlanta is still a city of transients that won't support the team or a superstar.  We've had Al, Joe Johnson, Paul Millsap all go to multiple allstar games and the seats are empty.   GS couldn't get FAs because they were mismanaged and didn't have the plan or the money to do so.   Cleveland also was capped out but I do remember them getting guys like Shaq, etc... more mismanagement.  Infact, they choose Shaq of Amare..

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

GS made trades and picked up free agents like Iguodala.

Sure, the bulk of GSs players came from the draft but there was a culture developed that had more importance than the players.  Because they could have kept Mark Jackson and probably be on the treadmill. 

We can make trades for role players and sign a key free agent after we have drafted our core stars too.  That is a very realistic bar to clear - most teams in the NBA can sign someone like Iggy when he was at the stage of his career when GS got him. It is getting Durant that is nearly impossible for most franchises like the Hawks.

[DBac]

Iggy was recruited by Steph iirc

 

We might have some competition in the tanking race: Clippers have lost 9 straight, just lost Pat Beverley for the season, and are fielding offers on Deandre Jordan.