The Tank Thread

[lethalweapon3]

Phoenix, Dallas, and the HAWKS all checking in at 18-40 tonite!

Maybe the Kings and Suns can win just one more, for the Tank Culture! Let's see who Phoenix and Sacto have to play on Wednesday... ohhh... nvm!

~lw3

[CBAreject]

Hard to believe 6 teams are tied for fewest wins (18) at this point in the season.  Someone who is good at history should tell us whether this has happened before.  It's tough to see a Bud-coached team beat out the field in this tankfest.  That's why the front office needs to help him with some buy-outs.  Don't we owe it to Dedmon to give him the chance to play for a contender???

[Peoriabird]

45 minutes ago, CBAreject said:

Hard to believe 6 teams are tied for fewest wins (18) at this point in the season.  Someone who is good at history should tell us whether this has happened before.  It's tough to see a Bud-coached team beat out the field in this tankfest.  That's why the front office needs to help him with some buy-outs.  Don't we owe it to Dedmon to give him the chance to play for a contender???

Buy out Dedmon? Seriously? That makes no sense!

[AHF]

30 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Buy out Dedmon? Seriously? That makes no sense!

We are tied for first today.  In a single night we could move to 6th in the pecking order.  This is the last year of this system which rewards tanking.  We are at a crossroads point of whether we tank shamelessly or we accept that we won't do so and acknowledge that other teams will.

Hard choices need to be made now that will affect the team for years to come.  It goes back to how big a difference you think it makes to draft guaranteed in the top 4 versus having he potential to drop to 9 or 10 by winning a few extra games.

That thinking is why I wanted to trade him.  Now we face unappealing options going forward.  Jeopardize our draft position, keep him and sit him, cut him / buyout and let him compete -- all scenarios are problematic.

[Peoriabird]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

We are tied for first today.  In a single night we could move to 6th in the pecking order.  This is the last year of this system which rewards tanking.  We are at a crossroads point of whether we tank shamelessly or we accept that we won't do so and acknowledge that other teams will.

Hard choices need to be made now that will affect the team for years to come.  It goes back to how big a difference you think it makes to draft guaranteed in the top 4 versus having he potential to drop to 9 or 10 by winning a few extra games.

That thinking is why I wanted to trade him.  Now we face unappealing options going forward.  Jeopardize our draft position, keep him and sit him, cut him / buyout and let him compete -- all scenarios are problematic.

You keep your best players period! It ain't that complicated! There ain't no saviors in this draft so you do sell the team for what you think is a deliverer. The top of the lottery isn't head and shoulder above the next 5 especially that shooting guard who I definitely don't want the Hawks to draft.

[AHF]

21 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You keep your best players period! It ain't that complicated! There ain't no saviors in this draft so you do sell the team for what you think is a deliverer. The top of the lottery isn't head and shoulder above the next 5 especially that shooting guard who I definitely don't want the Hawks to draft.

Doncic?  Disagree that the #8 and #9 picks aren't head and shoulders below the top guys as prospects.  I do agree this year is unusually deep in intriguing potential stars but it isn't that deep.  Somebody may pop from that low but odds are not great and it won't be their scouting profile.

For Dedmon, he is just as much a member of the Spurs next season as he is the Hawks.  He is an unrestricted free agent.  He will make his decision then and we have no guarantee that he'll ever play for the team again after the final 24 games.  

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Doncic?  Disagree that the #8 and #9 picks aren't head and shoulders below the top guys as prospects.  I do agree this year is unusually deep in intriguing potential stars but it isn't that deep.  Somebody may pop from that low but odds are not great and it won't be their scouting profile.

For Dedmon, he is just as much a member of the Spurs next season as he is the Hawks.  He is an unrestricted free agent.  He will make his decision then and we have no guarantee that he'll ever play for the team again after the final 24 games.  

The Spurs didn't want him! We have such a loser mentality that we can't even imagine resigning any of our own players except the ones nobody else wants like Muscala. Thats pretty sad!

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The Spurs didn't want him! We have such a loser mentality that we can't even imagine resigning any of our own players except the ones nobody else wants like Muscala. Thats pretty sad!

I just posted in the other thread the same thing I've posted a bunch of times already on the site.  I see us wanting to spend our big money not this offseason but at the earliest next offseason (and more likely the one after that).  

Dedmon may not entertain the idea of returning here.  He may demand a premium.  He may be really expensive just from a bidding war so that we don't want to keep him ala THJr.  He might be part of the squeeze in reduced value of big men so that we or some other team can get him at a discount.  It is a big unknown.  I'm not writing him off but us keeping him is secondary to me to getting young cost controlled, team controlled talent.

Unless you are talking about a superstar, free agency is generally a very inefficient way to build your team.  The track record for guys in that 8M - 16M range on long-term deals is not great.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I just posted in the other thread the same thing I've posted a bunch of times already on the site.  I see us wanting to spend our big money not this offseason but at the earliest next offseason (and more likely the one after that).  

Dedmon may not entertain the idea of returning here.  He may demand a premium.  He may be really expensive just from a bidding war so that we don't want to keep him ala THJr.  He might be part of the squeeze in reduced value of big men so that we or some other team can get him at a discount.  It is a big unknown.  I'm not writing him off but us keeping him is secondary to me to getting young cost controlled, team controlled talent.

If he is overpriced then the choice become clearer but you are assuming the worse like a typical Hawk fan. How can we get away from this crazy mentality?

[AHF]

10 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

If he is overpriced then the choice become clearer but you are assuming the worse like a typical Hawk fan. How can we get away from this crazy mentality?

You sign your large dollar free agents after you have your core.  You only sign very cost effective free agents long-term until then.  Anyone who isn't committed long-term isn't a long-term asset that you base your strategy around.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

You sign your large dollar free agents after you have your core.  You only sign very cost effective free agents long-term until then.  Anyone who isn't committed long-term isn't a long-term asset that you base your strategy around.

Why won't Dedmon be considered a part of a core? And who says he is going to be expensive?

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

You sign your large dollar free agents after you have your core.  You only sign very cost effective free agents long-term until then.  Anyone who isn't committed long-term isn't a long-term asset that you base your strategy around.

Plus don't you think we have a core already plus the 3 1st round picks this year????

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Plus don't you think we have a core already plus the 3 1st round picks this year????

I absolutely don't think we have a core in place.  The core of a contender to me is the stars that give the team its high ceiling and around whom the game plan is developed.  The core of the Miami Heat championship teams were LeBron, Wade and Bosh.  The Bulls were Jordan, Pippen and Grant/Rodman.  The Celtics were Bird, Parish and McHale.  Spurs core was Duncan, Parker and Ginobili.  Core of the recent Lakers champs were Kobe / Gasol and Kobe / Shaq.  The guys who surrounded the core had value but were replaceable with a good number of people around the league.  (How much did it matter whether it was BJ Armstrong or Steve Kerr or John Paxson or whether it was Luc Longley or Bill Cartwright?)

The way I see it, we have one long-term potential core piece for a contender  right now in Collins.  That is the only guy who is absolutely part of our future core to me. 

Prince is a flawed young player who could be a core part of the future as well if he takes a couple of significant steps forward but projects more as a DMC level player than someone like Pippen or Wade.  Dennis is iffy but he could be part of the core if he develops -- a Tony Parker ceiling looks theoretically reachable even if there is a long road to get there. 

Dorsey has shown some nice signs of being a useful bench player long-term but I don't think he'll ever be good enough to be part of a team's core.  Every other player on our roster is non-core today either due to lack of talent and/or long-term commitment.  

I view the odds of our top pick being part of the core this year as very good as long as we maintain a top 5 draft slot.  Our late first round picks (currently projected around the #25 and #29 picks) are long shots that have a huge payoff if they hit big but are more likely to lead to nothing significant.

[CBAreject]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Buy out Dedmon? Seriously? That makes no sense!

It makes perfect sense to me, but maybe I have different hopes for this off-season than you do.  My hopes are that we get a top-4 pick and continue to gain flexibility.  That probably involves letting Dedmon walk and trying hard to trade Baze.  Both of those guys are useful players, but they are (or will be) expensive, and they aren’t useful to us given our contention window.  That said, the only function of Dedmon is to knock us down the draft order and prolong our rebuild.  So, let’s speed things up by cutting him so he can play usefully and meaningfully for a contender.  Win-win.  

[Sothron]

I think buying out Dedmon is a good option. It looks better for us than simply sitting him.

Newsflash for Dedmon: dude is a FA after the season and after showing he wasn't just a product of the Spurs system teams will pay him. He may come back here but I sincerely doubt it. Especially if we take a center in the draft. Why not free him now, keep on tanking and let him sign with someone else?

[thescout]

I agree with the 3 previous posters(CBAreject,Sothron,AHF ) Hawks need to do everything possible to secure as high a pick as possible. We have been down this road before with bazemore having a contract year playing his best.Dedmon will want to much money and where as this guy been his whole career except lately he is playing well. Only player I see as a core guy is Collins the rest are spare parts. Schröder isn't the kind of point guard who makes other players better by distributing which is what you want from a point guard. Hawks need to focus on getting high potential players who can be stars. Sure you can get draft busts in the top 3 however the point of having the highest pick possible is so you get your man and isn't off the board come the Hawks pick. Can the GM pick the right player that remains to be seen but will have to see. Hawks have come this far in position to get a top pick why blow the rest of the season with meaningless wins. The players are playing for their contracts or playing time so they want to win and are looking for dollars/playing time at this point. The  smart fans realize winning games now lowers their draft position and want the right player. If I am Hawks management I do what is needed to secure the Hawks on getting the best draft pick.      

[Peoriabird]

At least y'all know what the team would look like without Dennis and Baze!  LOL!

[benhillboy]

Last night’s game was a seminal moment.  Schlenk made it clear this sh@t is real now.  Who in the f@$k is Andrew White?!

[davis171]

19 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Plus don't you think we have a core already plus the 3 1st round picks this year????

Yeah we have a core! A core where the top guys committed to playing next year are the 4th worst starting PG in the nba a heavily over paid shooting guard and a small forward that is 1-25 from 3 in the last 4 games but I guess it is the core of a bad team.

[Wretch]

22 hours ago, CBAreject said:

Hard to believe 6 teams are tied for fewest wins (18) at this point in the season.  Someone who is good at history should tell us whether this has happened before.  

I’m just shaking my head. Can nothing be normal or standard with this team!? Hell, with Atlanta sports in general. 

Seriously...  We finally rebuild and A) we have a historic tank race and B) lottery reform kicks in one season later. 

Atlanta sports man.  I swear... LOL