The Tank Thread

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And I'm sorry.  As a fan that pays to go see games, I wouldn't be cool at all waiting 4, 5, 6, 7 years just to get back to playoff level.   As a Cincinnati Reds fan, this is the worst point ever in franchise history.   They're going to lose 94+ games for the 4th year in a row.

That team went 14 years without making the playoffs.  Then they made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years, but couldn't get out of their first round playoff series.  Now they're on their way to missing the playoffs for the 5th year in a row.   Joey Votto should be one of the more celebrated Reds players in history, yet, his entire career is being wasted because he plays on an awful team.  He won't be with us much longer, which means more losing.

 

[buckyboy2]

4 hours ago, AtlKauzie said:

Like us last year?

I think it was the 2nd rd when we were swept away.....................................

[KB21]

The thing with baseball is that you have a true minor league system set up, and you aren't using contract time to develop the players like you do in the NBA.  When a player is drafted in baseball, he gets a signing bonus and then goes to the minors.  Their service time doesn't start until they actually get to the majors.

In the NBA, you draft some 19 year old raw kid with the #1 overall pick, and then you are playing that player more than his production warrants, losing games in the process because you are giving major minutes to a player who isn't producing.  Then, by the time the kid "gets it", you are having to resign him to a max deal, sometimes even before he "gets it".  

[JSmooooove]

1 hour ago, buckyboy2 said:

I think it was the 2nd rd when we were swept away.....................................

No the Wizards took care of us easily in the 1st round last year. You're thinking of 2 years ago when the Cavs absolutely destroyed us in 4 games. Or maybe the year before that when they... absolutely destroyed us in 4 games. What a shame that we couldn't have another fun year of that.

[davis171]

As someone who works for the Braves I can tell you a lot of people are excited about how we are playing but chill we aren't even in first in our conference hell our division right now and Ozzie, Dansby, and Flaherty still have to keep the hot bats with Acuna being the star everyone thinks he can be. Tanking works in all sports but using the braves is bad considering through the 90s they were a top 5 organization and can be made an argument top 3 so the pedigree is there. I do think it would be interesting if the hawks end up with Porter and decide to sit him ala 76ers for a year to maximize the loses next season while he gets with the team and the NBA lifestyle. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by davis171

[Guard]

Of course. Tanking works when you know what you’re doing. 

[KB21]

12 minutes ago, Guard said:

Of course. Tanking works when you know what you’re doing. 

Correction.  If you know what you are doing, you wouldn't be tanking.

[cam1218]

Keep in mind that the Braves signed Albies in 2013 and Acuna in 2014. We made the playoffs in 2013 and were expected to make them again in 2014. After the 2014 season is when we decided to gut our team. These guys would have been here regardless of the tank or not. Swanson is the guy you can say we acquired because we decided to tank.

Some of the pitching coming up you can credit to the tank, but so far most of the guys playing on the big league team have been inconsistent (Newcomb and Folty) and some of the others like Wisler and Blair haven't been good at all.

[KB21]

2 hours ago, JSmooooove said:

No the Wizards took care of us easily in the 1st round last year. You're thinking of 2 years ago when the Cavs absolutely destroyed us in 4 games. Or maybe the year before that when they... absolutely destroyed us in 4 games. What a shame that we couldn't have another fun year of that.

Yeah.  This team isn't going to be playing for the Eastern Conference finals anytime soon with the direction they have chosen.  Thank goodness, because who actually wants to play for anything other than ping pong balls so we can get all excited about the next hyped up prospect who will never live up to the hype.

[REHawksFan]

The only proven way of winning and or competing for a championship with any regularity in the NBA is to have elite, super-star talent.  Hall of fame talent.  The 04 Pistons (or whatever year that was) were an anomaly not the blueprint.  You need star power to win in this league. 

And there's exactly 3 ways to acquire such talent:  1. You trade for it; 2. You draft it; or 3. You sign in in FA.  Problem is, if a team has a truly elite player, the ransom they require to trade said talent is more than any franchise can bare generally.  So really, there's only 2 practical ways to acquire the necessary talent to win a title.  Draft em or sign em. 

And last I checked, superstars in their prime ain't walking through that door.  So while I don't necessarily like tanking, I'm willing to see how it goes as it's really the only way for a team like the Hawks to acquire elite talent, barring something unforeseen or out of the norm.  

I do agree that the front office has to know what they are doing for this strategy to work.  They better be really good at talent eval and be able to make good moves to parlay assets into legit NBA vets at some point.  IMO, you build the base through the draft and then try your luck at either signing quality vets to support the base or attracting an elite FA to play with the exciting young base.  

[JSmooooove]

3 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

The only proven way of winning and or competing for a championship with any regularity in the NBA is to have elite, super-star talent.  Hall of fame talent.  The 04 Pistons (or whatever year that was) were an anomaly not the blueprint.  You need star power to win in this league. 

And there's exactly 3 ways to acquire such talent:  1. You trade for it; 2. You draft it; or 3. You sign in in FA.  Problem is, if a team has a truly elite player, the ransom they require to trade said talent is more than any franchise can bare generally.  So really, there's only 2 practical ways to acquire the necessary talent to win a title.  Draft em or sign em. 

And last I checked, superstars in their prime ain't walking through that door.  So while I don't necessarily like tanking, I'm willing to see how it goes as it's really the only way for a team like the Hawks to acquire elite talent, barring something unforeseen or out of the norm.  

I do agree that the front office has to know what they are doing for this strategy to work.  They better be really good at talent eval and be able to make good moves to parlay assets into legit NBA vets at some point.  IMO, you build the base through the draft and then try your luck at either signing quality vets to support the base or attracting an elite FA to play with the exciting young base.  

This exact point has been re-hashed over and over on here and 99% of us understand the logic behind it. Someone will be here soon to tell you why you're completely wrong though. 

[EazyRoc]

13 hours ago, KB21 said:

Poised to make a run?   More like poised to get run out of the playoffs in the first round.  

1-1 without their best player is not “getting ran out of the first round”. I know pride is a mother****** 

[marco102]

58 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

1-1 without their best player is not “getting ran out of the first round”. I know pride is a mother****** 

Like he will counter your argument, that would counter EVERYTHING he's been preaching for the last 6 months. 

He also said, being in the playoffs in contending for a championship.   However, Philly isn't competing for one this year because they tanked 4 years ago.   He's literally keeping the message board alive so I guess we can't complain about him.

[KB21]

39 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Like he will counter your argument, that would counter EVERYTHING he's been preaching for the last 6 months. 

He also said, being in the playoffs in contending for a championship.   However, Philly isn't competing for one this year because they tanked 4 years ago.   He's literally keeping the message board alive so I guess we can't complain about him.

Correction.  I have said that you HAVE to be in the playoffs to compete for a championship.  

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Correction.  I have said that you HAVE to be in the playoffs to compete for a championship.  

Point being, the Philly's this year are doing exactly that.  Either way, their process worked out for them.  Will it result in a Championship? It remains to be seen.  They do have the young talent to definitely get farther than the Hawks ever have in their first year back in the playoffs.   I'd like to see how the Miami series will go once Embid starts.

Edited April 17, 2018 by marco102

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Point being, the Philly's this year are doing exactly that.  Either way, their process worked out for them.  Will it result in a Championship? It remains to be seen.  They do have the young talent to definitely get farther than the Hawks ever have in their first year back in the playoffs.   I'd like to see how the Miami series will go once Embid starts.

Really?  So, they have the talent to get to the NBA Finals right now?

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Really?  So, they have the talent to get to the NBA Finals right now?

Yes.

Edited April 17, 2018 by marco102

[KB21]

[marco102]

Just now, KB21 said:

How am I wrong my good sir?  They have the exact same squad you said the Hawks should produce, in the near future if they kept Milsap and Howard.  Young players with good veteran pieces.  This is what you said it takes to compete for a championship.  So again sir, how am I wrong? 

 

[KB21]

Just now, marco102 said:

How am I wrong my good sir?  They have the exact same squad you said the Hawks should produce, in the near future if they kept Milsap and Howard.  Young players with good veteran pieces.  This is what you said it takes to compete for a championship.  So again sir, how am I wrong? 

 

They don't have the veteran pieces to do it.  The team is also poorly put together, but that happens when you use tanking as a team building philosophy.