The Tank Thread

[Macknsweetjones]

Lmao @ bringing up 1999-2006 like that shit was 40 years ago. Man get the f*** out of here with that shit. Pretty sure everyone on this board remember those years.

[EazyRoc]

 Been a fan since 95. I’m built for this.

[Buzzard]

31 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

The whole organization top to bottom is a joke right now.   We will not get a franchise player in this draft.   There is nothing positive to say job about this.   This is a Goodwill Store hire because no proven coach wants to coach a minor league team.  Ive been a Hawks fan for 40 years and Ive never seen the franchise this low.  

I have. Losing Ted Turner as our principal owner, trading Nique. The ASG, BK,  Woody fiasco. You can throw in the Shareef for Gasol and Smitty for JR Rider and Jim Jackson trades.

This is nothing compared to the above. We have a new principal owner who has shown he will spend money. He is paying two head coaches right now and spent a pretty large fortune on players under Bud's guidance. We have picks, youth, and very soon cap space. Today we hired a new coach that has an outstanding reputation around the league to guide them.

The glass is either half full or it is half empty. No one controls how any of us see this.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Buzzard

[hazer]

7 hours ago, Twinblade said:

Rather be a "Debbie Downer" than have false hope..

Because that’s intellectually lazy and low hanging fruit, takes ZERO effort. It’s much easier to be a critic/cynic than a pragmatic optimist.

[sturt]

2 hours ago, hazer said:

Because that’s intellectually lazy and low hanging fruit, takes ZERO effort. It’s much easier to be a critic/cynic than a pragmatic optimist.

Interesting comment, as I too believe that it's too easy for fans to be cynics for the sake of their own egos... love to say they were right about some team morbidity while at the same time, if their cynicism proves wrong, getting to indulge in the good feelings of success like anyone else.

In this case, I'm not even sure where there's much debate. None of us are talking about any ambitions of short-term success.... right? The debate, rather, is centered on how long the GM and owner are prepared to let the team flounder in the wilderness before closing that chapter and turning the corner back to serious competition for an actual title.

Even the most optimistic don't perceive we're actually pushing toward serious competition this next season, right? So, the earliest that will happen is 2019-2020, right? And a more pragmatic view would say one year later, 2020-2021... yes?

So, to my mind anyhow, there's just not that much of a gulf between trains of thought here.

We have a long wait in front of us. And the new coach is going to be very disposable in two years, and without question after three.

Call me Yogi. I'm going back to sleep now. ;)

[Jungle Jack]

Between the number of picks and quality of the draft, the impact of this draft on the Hawks future cannot possibly be minimized.  More than anything, this will predicate how sustained the tanking is going to be.  With the forthcoming changes to the lottery at least shooting for 20 something wins will not be as common.

[AHF]

@Vol4ever Wanted to post this so you had full warning.  @KB21 is well aware this thread was set up to be the home of general thoughts about tanking, what tanking means for this team, the moral imperatives around tanking, etc.  The conversation on tanking is perfectly fine but we have developed a problem with people injecting it into threads and derailing the threads.  

I have previously been splitting those posts off into this thread and giving people a verbal heads up to knock it off.  Lately, however, I am working a lot more hours and have little time for that policing let alone enjoying the board.  So the next time it happens I will simply be handing out a suspension to the derailing poster.

You are free to post in a thread like one on coaches or draft prospects and let people know you will be sharing your thoughts on what tanking means for these players or the new coach, etc in the tank thread but don't post your thoughts on that thread because it will provoke argument and derail the thread.  

I just don't have time to keep mitigating the disruption of discussion on a given topic in order to rehash the same issues raised in this thread.  

This heads up is not directed at both you and KB specifically -- it applies to everyone but since you were both part of it on the new coach thread I wanted to make sure it got to your attention directly.  Both of you are good longterm posters who are part of the Squawk community and should be for a long time into the future but this problem has been a recurring one and I need you guys to do some self editing by focusing this provocative conversion in this thread and not spreading it across the board into discussions intended by the op to be on other topics.

Please help me out on this.  Thanks.

[thescout5]

It all comes down to how the Gm evaluates talent and makes the right pick.Right now the Celtics look to be the team built to dominate the east for the future.Philly right up there once they add a few more pieces and Simmons learns to shoot.Its going to take the Hawks 3-5 yrs of good drafting to compete at hopefully a championship.Just making the playoffs isn't good enough.

[KB21]

Oh, look.  We have had posts moved once again when they were directly upon topic as the reason for why we hired a coach with such a shoddy resume.

[AHF]

57 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Oh, look.  We have had posts moved once again when they were directly upon topic as the reason for why we hired a coach with such a shoddy resume.

This is the first time out.  Getting cheeky about violating forum rules isn't going to help the case.  The mods are available by pm.  The whole goal here is to allow full discussion on topics of interest and rehashing the tank topic should be done on here not repeated in other threads to derail conversion.

(And saying things like "any player we pick is doomed because tanking destroys franchises" or "any coach we hire is a sacraficial lamb because tanking destroys franchises" etc does not make it any less disruptive to discussion of thinks like prospects for the draft.  Those thoughts are not the issue in themselves but just need to be discussed on this thread because the true topic there is tanking not whatever prospect or other element is rendered futile in your view by tanking.)

[Peoriabird]

 

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

This is the first time out.  Getting cheeky about violating forum rules isn't going to help the case.  The mods are available by pm. 

 

[Spud2nique]

Been a fan for a minute myself. One of the biggest Bud fans around as well. Though the future is uncertain, the show WILL go on whether we the fans are on board with it or not. I’ve gotten on board every other time during a rebuild like in 92 or 2000 or 2004. 

 

The best thing to do is welcome Lloyd Pierce with open arms and give the guy a chance to do what he came here to do....develop players, be a coach that players can relate to, and put us back on the map to the playoffs and eventually going after some hardware.

 

#embracetheprocess #LloydZoMournGameface  

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Been a fan for a minute myself. One of the biggest Bud fans around as well. Though the future is uncertain, the show WILL go on whether we the fans are on board with it or not. I’ve gotten on board every other time during a rebuild like in 92 or 2000 or 2004. 

 

The best thing to do is welcome Lloyd Pierce with open arms and give the guy a chance to do what he came here to do....develop players, be a coach that players can relate to, and put us back on the map to the playoffs and eventually going after some hardware.

 

#embracetheprocess #LloydZoMournGameface  

Pretty much my view.  Don't know enough about him to have a strong opinion.  Seen good things but he hasn't stepped out on his own enough to know what we really have. Looking forward to finding out and I'll be rooting for him to succeed.

[Spud2nique]

On 5/10/2018 at 5:11 AM, kg01 said:

Yeah but now you have to deal with me.

You look familiar sun! Who you again?

[Spud2nique]

22 hours ago, kg01 said:

This doesn't deserve it's own thread but I recall a bunch of folks figured Schlenki was gonna try to pry Klay from the Warriors.

Welp, in case it wasn't already obvious that was a pipe dream ...

 

Exclusive footage of Schlenki getting the news ....

 

Punchface extraordinaire! I would have had a hard time accepting him as a Hawk fan. It’s like having a Bill Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn type on your team...or @JayBirdHawk‘s fav..

 

Mr. Alan Anderson...

[SerbianHawk]

Bottom of the bottom of the bottom of the bottom of the barrel junior college move. Great!

Prepare yourself for three years of tanking.

 

 

[KB21]

Quote

Hmm, another bold statement based on ______?_____ facts.

They will have an improving front court that has already put up numbers (Collins and Prince).

A veteran backcourt with athleticism (Schröder and Bazemore).

The addition of veterans added either on 1 year deals or as salary dumps.

And a head coach who emphasizes defense, which is the easiest way to team improvement with lesser talent onboard.

All of that points to a slight increase in wins, to the upper 20's/low 30's.

Hardly  a backslide to some sort of "historically bad" win total in the teens.

Remember, the so-called "tank" is only a function of year one of a rebuild. That is now out of the way.

The goal moving forward is squeezing as many wins, and as much development, as possible out of a young core, without adding any bad contracts.

There is no further need to lose as part of the rebuild. That was the directive for Year 1 only.

That's how a proper rebuild works. You don't need a high lottery pick every year (which is what Sam Hinkie got wrong).

You just need multiple 1st-rounders, you need to hit on a majority of them, and then you develop them.

And that's all the Schlenk has preached from the beginning.

Yeah.  This is why Slinky has already stated that he will use cap space to absorb bad contracts and not use it to get players who can help this team win......like a Derrick Favors.  Taking on a contract like Joakim Noah's or Jarred Bayless's is not going to help this team improve in 2018-2019.  It's going to make them worse, because those contracts will be place holders on 

So, he is intentionally putting the team into position to play young players.  That's tanking.  That's not going to be a strategy that wins you many games.

[nathan2331]

 

 

Hmm, another bold statement based on ______?_____ facts.

They will have an improving front court that has already put up numbers (Collins and Prince).

A veteran backcourt with athleticism (Schröder and Bazemore).

The addition of veterans added either on 1 year deals or as salary dumps.

And a head coach who emphasizes defense, which is the easiest way to team improvement with lesser talent onboard.

All of that points to a slight increase in wins, to the upper 20's/low 30's.

Hardly  a backslide to some sort of "historically bad" win total in the teens.

Remember, the so-called "tank" is only a function of year one of a rebuild. That is now out of the way.

The goal moving forward is squeezing as many wins, and as much development, as possible out of a young core, without adding any bad contracts.

There is no further need to lose as part of the rebuild. That was the directive for Year 1 only.

That's how a proper rebuild works. You don't need a high lottery pick every year (which is what Sam Hinkie got wrong).

You just need multiple 1st-rounders, you need to hit on a majority of them, and then you develop them.

And that's all the Schlenk has preached from the beginning.

Yeah.  This is why Slinky has already stated that he will use cap space to absorb bad contracts and not use it to get players who can help this team win......like a Derrick Favors.  Taking on a contract like Joakim Noah's or Jarred Bayless's is not going to help this team improve in 2018-2019.  It's going to make them worse, because those contracts will be place holders on 

So, he is intentionally putting the team into position to play young players.  That's tanking.  That's not going to be a strategy that wins you many games.

 

Hate to say it, but you're right about this and have been since last year. We're the Sixers 2.0. I don't see us being nearly as successful though, but hopefully we land a centerpiece in the next couple of drafts.

[KB21]

11 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

Yeah.  This is why Slinky has already stated that he will use cap space to absorb bad contracts and not use it to get players who can help this team win......like a Derrick Favors.  Taking on a contract like Joakim Noah's or Jarred Bayless's is not going to help this team improve in 2018-2019.  It's going to make them worse, because those contracts will be place holders on 

So, he is intentionally putting the team into position to play young players.  That's tanking.  That's not going to be a strategy that wins you many games.

 

 

Hate to say it, but you're right about this and have been since last year. We're the Sixers 2.0. I don't see us being nearly as successful though, but hopefully we land a centerpiece in the next couple of drafts.

You know what else I am right about:

This team will have a new GM and HC before they get good again.

This team will not be in playoff contention for at least 5 years.

[CBAreject]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

You know what else I am right about:

This team will have a new GM and HC before they get good again.

This team will not be in playoff contention for at least 5 years.

@KB21,  not even in playoff contention?  So you are saying that they will not even come close to making the playoffs until the 2022–23 season?  Or is it 2023-24