The Tank Thread

[sillent]

44 minutes ago, KB21 said:

This is Philly, right down to hiring an unqualified coach from the Philly tank.

If this was Philly Taurean, Bembry and Baze would be gone. John Collins would be on the block for being too good too early and we wouldn't have drafted players in the mold of the Warriors. We would have picked Doncic to be our Ben Simmons. We probably would have scoffed on the other 2/3 picks maybe getting a player that was good or not great or bringing in question marks like Mitchell Robinson. Fouling up picks to get even better picks later. Erasing our entire identity, getting rid of good players early like Prince, Bembry, Collins and Dedmon. Baze would be gone just to completely erase the old identity. Most importantly we wouldn't build a complete team this early at every position and add vets like Vinsanity and Linsanity because who needs vets like this to possibly teach us how to win or get wins from winning instincts. We are closer to rebuilding like Boston than we are to Philly. All in all as the season unfolds we have the chance to go down as a new name in rebuild/revamp history possibly creating the fastest turn around in history.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, sillent said:

If this was Philly Taurean, Bembry and Baze would be gone. John Collins would be on the block for being too good too early and we wouldn't have drafted players in the mold of the Warriors. We would have picked Doncic to be our Ben Simmons. We probably would have scoffed on the other 2/3 picks maybe getting a player that was good or not great or bringing in question marks like Mitchell Robinson. Fouling up picks to get even better picks later. Erasing our entire identity, getting rid of good players early like Prince, Bembry, Collins and Dedmon. Baze would be gone just to completely erase the old identity. Most importantly we wouldn't build a complete team this early at every position and add vets like Vinsanity and Linsanity because who needs vets like this to possibly teach us how to win or get wins from winning instincts. We are closer to rebuilding like Boston than we are to Philly. All in all as the season unfolds we have the chance to go down as a new name in rebuild/revamp history possibly creating the fastest turn around in history.

Boston never bottomed out or intentionally tanked.

[sillent]

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Boston never bottomed out or intentionally tanked.

Wikipedia says different. To top it off besides Smart they currently have none of these players listed below. 

The 2013–14 season marked the Celtics' first missed playoffs since the "Big Three".^[110]

The next off-season, the Celtics drafted Marcus Smart with the 6th overall pick and James Young with the 17th overall pick in the 2014 NBA draft,^[111] and signed Evan Turner. The 2014–15 season had several roster moves, the most prominent being Rondo and rookie Dwight Powelltraded to the Dallas Mavericks for center Brandan Wright, forward Jae Crowder, veteran point guard Jameer Nelson, and future picks.^[112] A total of 22 players spent time with the Celtics,^[113] leading scorer and rebounder Sullinger suffered a season-ending left metatarsal stress fracture,^[114] and the team was only tenth in the East with 28 games remaining.^[115] However, midseason acquisition Isaiah Thomas helped the team win 22 of their last 34 games, finishing the season with a 40–42 record, enough for the seventh seed in the Eastern Conference Playoffs.^[116] The Celtics were swept by the second seeded Cleveland Cavaliers in the first round.

[JCDBaptist]

14 hours ago, KB21 said:

He tanked the team out.  That should be enough for anyone to dislike him and the direction of the team.  He adopted the one team building strategy that is unforgivable in my eyes.

So tanking is the culprit behind your antagonist persona? 

If you were the GM, what eould you have done? Just go down the list of moves and trades (realistic) you would have done?

Can't/couldn't get a top tier FA here. Being a middle of the pack team wasn't a contending, exciting product. Late lottery and outside the lottery didn't help.

You are making it sound like Schlenk was the first to resolve to tanking. It is so prevalent that the NBA is changing the rules to penalize tanking teams. So it is nothing new. Schlenk had to blow up the team. We were going nowhere. What is expected?

[KB21]

3 hours ago, JCDBaptist said:

So tanking is the culprit behind your antagonist persona? 

If you were the GM, what eould you have done? Just go down the list of moves and trades (realistic) you would have done?

Can't/couldn't get a top tier FA here. Being a middle of the pack team wasn't a contending, exciting product. Late lottery and outside the lottery didn't help.

You are making it sound like Schlenk was the first to resolve to tanking. It is so prevalent that the NBA is changing the rules to penalize tanking teams. So it is nothing new. Schlenk had to blow up the team. We were going nowhere. What is expected?

You make moves to continue to maintain your competitiveness and attempt to win.  It has already been proven that tanking doesn't work.  

[Wurider05]

They are getting the tank off to a proper start.

[JCDBaptist]

3 hours ago, KB21 said:

You make moves to continue to maintain your competitiveness and attempt to win.  It has already been proven that tanking doesn't work.  

So what moves would you make? It takes two to deal.

Who would you have gone after? Who would you trade and trade for? Who would you have drafted say around 10 (if we wouldn't have tanked)? 

I guess Michael Porter would have been a good pick.

Just now, JCDBaptist said:

So what moves would you make? It takes two to deal.

Who would you have gone after? Who would you trade and trade for? Who would you have drafted say around 10 (if we wouldn't have tanked)? 

I guess Michael Porter would have been a good pick.

Also take into consideration that we did not have a squad to compete as a contender regardless.

[hazer]

36 minutes ago, JCDBaptist said:

So what moves would you make? It takes two to deal.

Who would you have gone after? Who would you trade and trade for? Who would you have drafted say around 10 (if we wouldn't have tanked)? 

I guess Michael Porter would have been a good pick.

Also take into consideration that we did not have a squad to compete as a contender regardless.

Most of us have heard of all of this from him 4, 5 times for months and months and months. You’re wasting your time ✋?

[KB21]

43 minutes ago, JCDBaptist said:

So what moves would you make? It takes two to deal.

Who would you have gone after? Who would you trade and trade for? Who would you have drafted say around 10 (if we wouldn't have tanked)? 

I guess Michael Porter would have been a good pick.

Also take into consideration that we did not have a squad to compete as a contender regardless.

Well, they sure don't have a squad that can compete now, and it will be the case for several years due to the path they chose to go in.

 

[JCDBaptist]

1 hour ago, hazer said:

Most of us have heard of all of this from him 4, 5 times for months and months and months. You’re wasting your time ✋?

Duly noted!

Thanks

[Lurker]

To be honest sitting a mild ankle injury going into the season before going through the season and there being some wear and tear does sniff a little of "we don't care if we win or lose this season". If it's 20-30 games in or longer, then it'd make more sense.

But to add on with that, it's like "We don't care if we lose but we want to have veterans around to be mentors" at the same time.

[RedDawg#8]

To the anti-tankers, I have one question.

What possible combination of players could Schlenk have aqcuired with the roster and cap the way it was when he got here, that would have been good enough to beat the Warriors? We couldn’t even beat Lebron and he can barely beat the Warriors.

If we know we aren’t winning a championship as constructed then what point does it make to keep running the same car out there with just a new slab of paint on it like it’s going to yeild different results?

A rebuild is taking everything apart, and building from scratch with new parts, piecing together something that will out perform the previous model.

By the time Lebron and the Warriors are done dominating the league, our young guns will be entering their primes ready to compete for the newly vacated throne.

Right now the Bucks, Sixers, Celtics, and Raptors are gonna have fun battling each other for the East crown just to fall short of the real goal in the finals. And by the time we’re competing  again they will have had to let key guys go because of the cap. And they will be in the same boat we were in 2-3 years ago. On the cusp but with little room to add that piece to get them over the edge.

And there we will be, the young hungry Hawks, with Collins, Trae, Prince and Zion Williamson, ready to dominate the East for an era. 

All because we made the right decision to build now and bear the fruits later.

[KB21]

8 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

To the anti-tankers, I have one question.

What possible combination of players could Schlenk have aqcuired with the roster and cap the way it was when he got here, that would have been good enough to beat the Warriors? We couldn’t even beat Lebron and he can barely beat the Warriors.

If we know we aren’t winning a championship as constructed then what point does it make to keep running the same car out there with just a new slab of paint on it like it’s going to yeild different results?

A rebuild is taking everything apart, and building from scratch with new parts, piecing together something that will out perform the previous model.

By the time Lebron and the Warriors are done dominating the league, our young guns will be entering their primes ready to compete for the newly vacated throne.

Right now the Bucks, Sixers, Celtics, and Raptors are gonna have fun battling each other for the East crown just to fall short of the real goal in the finals. And by the time we’re competing  again they will have had to let key guys go because of the cap. And they will be in the same boat we were in 2-3 years ago. On the cusp but with little room to add that piece to get them over the edge.

And there we will be, the young hungry Hawks, with Collins, Trae, Prince and Zion Williamson, ready to dominate the East for an era. 

All because we made the right decision to build now and bear the fruits later.

The point is not to beat the warriors with the combination of players you have.  The point is to maintain your competitiveness and not do anything to destroy the winning environment that Mike Budenholzer had built in Atlanta.  This team would have had a much better chance of competing for a championship within the next five years had they rebuilt the way Danny Ferry rebuilt the team after the 2012 season or the way the Houston Rockets built their team.

By bottoming out and intentionally building a shitty roster and shitty team, the Hawks guaranteed themselves no fewer than 5 years of complete and utter hopelessness and misery with no guarantees that this goal of a championship will be the final outcome of the misery, particularly since no other team has ever adopted this philosophy and won a championship.

[kg01]

Interesting.  Went from 60 wins ... to 48 ..... to 43 ... to 24 ..... 

Anybody notice a trend with that "winning environment"?

[snake88usa]

21 hours ago, KB21 said:

Vince is playing because they know he isn't going to contribute much to winning games, which is what they do not want to do this year (or next, or the year after...etc).  

Just remember a dead horse is going to remain a dead horse, no matter how many times you keep beating it.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, snake88usa said:

Just remember a dead horse is going to remain a dead horse, no matter how many times you keep beating it.

Well then.  Just admit that I am correct, and the strategy the Hawks have employed under Travis Schlenk will not work.  Because as long as people think something good is going to come out of tanking, I'll be here to beat it back down.

[snake88usa]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Well then.  Just admit that I am correct, and the strategy the Hawks have employed under Travis Schlenk will not work.  Because as long as people think something good is going to come out of tanking, I'll be here to beat it back down.

Tanking or rebuilding, call what you wish. But anything just slightly better than treadmill is an improvment for this franchise and I will say you are looking at no later than 2020 to be there.

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, snake88usa said:

Tanking or rebuilding, call what you wish. But anything just slightly better than treadmill is an improvment for this franchise and I will say you are looking at no later than 2020 to be there.

Ah.  More of this being a playoff team is being on a treadmill myth.  The only treadmill that truly exists is the one you get on when you decide to intentionally dip into the lottery in an attempt to get a high draft pick.  That's a treadmill most teams don't get off of.

[kg01]

12 minutes ago, snake88usa said:

Tanking or rebuilding, call what you wish. But anything just slightly better than treadmill is an improvment for this franchise and I will say you are looking at no later than 2020 to be there.

I think you missed the "Don't feed the dead-horse beater" sign when you walked in.

Don't worry, we've all done it.  I just wanted to give you fair warning so you don't get too deep into the maddening argument with him before you turn around and realize he's lured you into a dark, dark world where up is down and light is dark and nothing you thought makes sense exists anymore ....

[KB21]

31 minutes ago, JTB said:

Hmmmm

As a Atlanta sports fan I think these franchises are messing up with all these extras in the stadiums/arena. Don’t get me wrong I like it but there is a dramatic change adding these new cool things.

For example I’ve attended a decent amount of Falcon games in the Georgia Dome before it was destroyed and this year I’ve attended every Falcons game in the Mercedes Benz stadium. The Benz stadium is much better but our fans DO NOT TAKE THEIR SEATS! I get the falcons haven’t started off the best this season but fans taking their seat wasn’t the issue in the Georgia dome (obviously less cool shit but still) it’s now rare to see that stadium filled up and there are way more Falcon believers than hawks believers!

 

So take that and think about what all this new cool shit in the State Farm arena  is going to do during the games for a franchise who gets less fans to show up!....yeah, exactly!...it’s going to be a haunted house in there.

It's by design.  They have to give the fans a reason to come to the games during the many, many, many lean years that the Hawks are looking at due to the strategy they have undertaken.