Mo Bamba Comparison

[NBASupes]

Diesel is consistent. Rebounding is his quarrel with Horford. That was always his quarrel with Al

[NBASupes]

The Horford threads back then were hilarious. Per40 Al isnt giving us much than what Shelden gave us. 

[Flight]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

The Horford threads back then were hilarious. Per40 Al isnt giving us much than what Shelden gave us. 

Per40 have to be the most misleading stats to look at honestly lol

[EazyRoc]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

You know my Vin Baker comparison wasnt that bad. The obvious gap was Al was much smarter. Better movement player. Much more of a winner. Much higher BBIQ. Much better passer. Much better defender. 

 

I clearly was judging him from a size, skill, talent stance at the time. I always wondered how I kinda missed on Al. Why I didnt see him being special in college like I did in the pros. 

I really think this is due to not watching enough UF games when he was a prospect. He was superior to what I wrote and thought at the time.

Dude isn’t all that special.

[NBASupes]

12 minutes ago, Flight said:

Per40 have to be the most misleading stats to look at honestly lol

Ikr. It only works for Europe.

[Dejay]

Ah man, these threads are getting as chippy as 2001 when there were enough insults thrown between us on a daily basis that would've surely gotten most of us kicked off the forum now. 

While I claim to be no expert in college basketball (and have the tourney picks to prove it), the eyeball test goes to Bagley as of right now. Like a lot of others, I've heard about him via the hype machine of the net dating back to high school. But from watching him actually perform in a few games, he's done pretty well on the court so far. As for Bamba and Triple J, I never even heard of them before this year's tournament and even afterwards, was left expecting more. And yes, my Spidey senses are giving me the same 'go along to get along, don't ask me to be great' tingles of Marvin Williams when watching Triple J in Spartan gear. 

Of course, I could be wrong and have been before; I was jumping for joy when they drafted Acie Law. But for once, just once, can they get a franchise player from a draft in my lifetime???

[KB21]

The Marvin Williams thing taught me a lesson that shapes my player evaluations now.  Potential means absolutely nothing, therefore, I rely upon skills that are already apparent in these players now and evaluate them based on what they can do now.  It's foolish to rely on a player developing skills they don't currently have when they get to the NBA.  Marvin Bagley is the Marvin Williams pick of this draft.  Everything you say about him is something that has to be developed.  He has to develop his jump shot.  He has to develop his ball handling.  He has to develop his off the dribble game.  He has to develop his defense.  With JJJ, you have a guy who can jump right into the NBA defending and shooting jumpers.  With Bamba, again, you are hoping he develops skills that he has not shown in game to this point in his career.  

I favor Doncic and JJJ because they are the players that can step in right now and play without hurting the team.  Bagley will be so awful defensively that he will be a net negative as a rookie.  Bamba will be a net negative offensively.  JJJ will be a positive both offensively and defensively.  

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The Marvin Williams thing taught me a lesson that shapes my player evaluations now.  Potential means absolutely nothing, therefore, I rely upon skills that are already apparent in these players now and evaluate them based on what they can do now.  It's foolish to rely on a player developing skills they don't currently have when they get to the NBA.  Marvin Bagley is the Marvin Williams pick of this draft.  Everything you say about him is something that has to be developed.  He has to develop his jump shot.  He has to develop his ball handling.  He has to develop his off the dribble game.  He has to develop his defense.  With JJJ, you have a guy who can jump right into the NBA defending and shooting jumpers.  With Bamba, again, you are hoping he develops skills that he has not shown in game to this point in his career.  

I favor Doncic and JJJ because they are the players that can step in right now and play without hurting the team.  Bagley will be so awful defensively that he will be a net negative as a rookie.  Bamba will be a net negative offensively.  JJJ will be a positive both offensively and defensively.  

JJJ had four or more fouls in half his games. He only played 22 minutes a game. Body control and discipline is definitely something he needs to work on if he wants to start in the NBA. I think he can be a good role player and maybe a 3rd string All Star.

That is the most upside I am prepared to give him.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

JJJ had four or more fouls in half his games. He only played 22 minutes a game. Body control and discipline is definitely something he needs to work on if he wants to start in the NBA. I think he can be a good role player and maybe a 3rd string All Star.

That is the most upside I am prepared to give him.

Like the others, you haven't been watching.  The only freshmen who have put up the BPM numbers that JJJ has put up are Anthony Davis, Karl Anthony Towns, and Joel Embiid.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with JJJ's body control, and his discipline is a youth issue, not a skill issue.  The last time we have seen a freshman big this dominant defensively in college basketball was when Joel Embiid was a freshman and was overshadowed by the scorer Andrew Wiggins.  Joel Embiid had a 14.9 BPM.  Andrew Wiggins had a 8.5 BPM.

When I see Bagley play, the player that immediately jumps to my mind is Julius Randle.  Bagley is a more athletic version of Randle.  Similar limited skill sets and low defensive ability.  

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Like the others, you haven't been watching.  The only freshmen who have put up the BPM numbers that JJJ has put up are Anthony Davis, Karl Anthony Towns, and Joel Embiid.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with JJJ's body control, and his discipline is a youth issue, not a skill issue.  The last time we have seen a freshman big this dominant defensively in college basketball was when Joel Embiid was a freshman and was overshadowed by the scorer Andrew Wiggins.  Joel Embiid had a 14.9 BPM.  Andrew Wiggins had a 8.5 BPM.

When I see Bagley play, the player that immediately jumps to my mind is Julius Randle.  Bagley is a more athletic version of Randle.  Similar limited skill sets and low defensive ability.  

You are right. I am not watching a BPM game. Is there one? If so post the tapes lmao.

[KB21]

It's not my issue if you want to ignore the best advanced metric we have at putting proper value on these players.  Let's ignore the fact that previous freshman who have produced a BPM at the level of Jaren Jackson have not only been successful NBA players but star NBA players.  

[Flight]

26 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Like the others, you haven't been watching.  The only freshmen who have put up the BPM numbers that JJJ has put up are Anthony Davis, Karl Anthony Towns, and Joel Embiid.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with JJJ's body control, and his discipline is a youth issue, not a skill issue.  The last time we have seen a freshman big this dominant defensively in college basketball was when Joel Embiid was a freshman and was overshadowed by the scorer Andrew Wiggins.  Joel Embiid had a 14.9 BPM.  Andrew Wiggins had a 8.5 BPM.

When I see Bagley play, the player that immediately jumps to my mind is Julius Randle.  Bagley is a more athletic version of Randle.  Similar limited skill sets and low defensive ability.  

 

Coming from someone that's followed Julius Randle closely and seen him play in person, that's definitely not a good comparison. I see why you'd say it but it doesn't work.

If you're saying the players are what they are at this point and to draft them for that, I'm definitely taking the ACC Player of the Year in Marvin Bagley. JJJ hasn't produced anything on the offensive end. Obviously JJJ is closer to being the Marvin Williams of this draft than Bagley. Offensively JJJ's strengths are pretty much what Marvin does. He's not gonna create for himself and his shots are going to have to come from others creating them for him. Bagley can create on his own and can improvise better than any big in this draft I've seen. JJJ isn't bad but I highly doubt he'll be jumping into the league and being a beast on defense if he could barely stay on the court in college.

[EazyRoc]

Advanced statistics are flawed and useless without proper context. They are not reliable when projecting any more than actually watching a player play. 

[Buzzard]

8 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Advanced statistics are flawed and useless without proper context. They are not reliable when projecting any more than actually watching a player play. 

Some think a piece of paper or web site stat sheet is the most you need. Stats are nice but if a player only gets 22 minutes a game, there is a big cause for concern in my opinion. Seriously, if playing time is not a red flag, then there is no such thing as a red flag.

[KB21]

17 minutes ago, Flight said:

 

Coming from someone that's followed Julius Randle closely and seen him play in person, that's definitely not a good comparison. I see why you'd say it but it doesn't work.

If you're saying the players are what they are at this point and to draft them for that, I'm definitely taking the ACC Player of the Year in Marvin Bagley. JJJ hasn't produced anything on the offensive end. Obviously JJJ is closer to being the Marvin Williams of this draft than Bagley. Offensively JJJ's strengths are pretty much what Marvin does. He's not gonna create for himself and his shots are going to have to come from others creating them for him. Bagley can create on his own and can improvise better than any big in this draft I've seen. JJJ isn't bad but I highly doubt he'll be jumping into the league and being a beast on defense if he could barely stay on the court in college.

You actually think Bagley is going to be able to create for himself when he can't dribble and can only go to his left hand?

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Some think a piece of paper or web site stat sheet is the most you need. Stats are nice but if a player only gets 22 minutes a game, there is a big cause for concern in my opinion. Seriously, if playing time is not a red flag, then there is no such thing as a red flag.

Joel Embiid only played 23.2 MPG.   

[GThawks3]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

You actually think Bagley is going to be able to create for himself when he can't dribble and can only go to his left hand?

Bagley is a very good ball handler. You’re making things up now. 

[Flight]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

You actually think Bagley is going to be able to create for himself when he can't dribble and can only go to his left hand?

Have you ever watched him play? lol You act like have a left hand as a dominant hand will hinder him as a player haha. It's not like he only has two ways he can score. Dude has a solid offensive skillset around the basket and he's just flat out more active than most of his opposition.

He's a lot more consistent and smoother dribbling the ball with either hand than JJJ is. At the BARE Minimum of what he can do would put him at the level of scoring the way John Collins did last year. That's 10 a game off his rebounding, activity and athleticism alone. 

1 minute ago, GThawks3 said:

Bagley is a very good ball handler. You’re making things up now. 

He's been talking so much about Jaren Jackson that he's begun to get their skill sets confused for one another. lol

[Buzzard]

17 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Joel Embiid only played 23.2 MPG.   

As I said, if we draft him I hope he succeeds. But I am not feeling it; and with all the trade down rumors floating around, I am not sure Schelnk is sold on him either.

Now it is time for 10,000th Schlenk bash; so go ahead and reply.

[KB21]

18 minutes ago, Flight said:

Have you ever watched him play? lol You act like have a left hand as a dominant hand will hinder him as a player haha. It's not like he only has two ways he can score. Dude has a solid offensive skillset around the basket and he's just flat out more active than most of his opposition.

He's a lot more consistent and smoother dribbling the ball with either hand than JJJ is. At the BARE Minimum of what he can do would put him at the level of scoring the way John Collins did last year. That's 10 a game off his rebounding, activity and athleticism alone. 

He's been talking so much about Jaren Jackson that he's begun to get their skill sets confused for one another. lol

Yes, I have.  Also, straight from The Stepien's write up on him:

Quote

• Ball slows him down as a face up handler in the half court, especially when guarded by more agile defenders in non-advantage situations. Predictable ball-handler due to the lack of a right hand.
• Lacks tight space dribble move and side-to-side shiftiness with the ball in mid-post isolation situations. Wants to gather off two feet to finish and overpower players rather than slip around defenders, resulting in a lot of awkward floater attempts especially driving right and trying to finish left. Does he have the frame to carve out space here?
• How well will his shot translate to NBA 3? Cocks his wrist back beyond 90 degrees, which leads to flatter arc at times.  More of a jump shooter than a set shooter (despite showing flashes of the latter), which profiles better to the mid-range. Needs the threat of his shot to open up face up attack situations.