Trae Ceiling....

[JayBirdHawk]

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Long read, including videos:

 

[EazyRoc]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Sexton isn’t comparable to anybody I can recall playing. Probably most like his own coach Avery Johnson. A supreme competitor with a built over the years jumper that didn’t come easy. Sexton will struggle if he can’t shoot from outside...imo...the only way to get separation from your defender in the nba is to prove you can stroke it from the outside. 

Time will tell I guess but I’m happy we didn’t end up with:

JJJ 4th

Wendell Carter 7th

Sexton 8th

Knox 9th

The best comparison I’m seeing is Eric Bledsoe. Quality athlete and good defender. Question marks about playmaking and shooting.

[JCDBaptist]

4 hours ago, DS17Fanboy said:

this franchise is such a joke, but not as funny as the hawks fans. trae young aint shit and hes balding already.

Your name says it all. The writing is on the wall and I guess you will be following D17 on the way out. 

This is a franchise for real fans, not the bandwagoners or faint of heart. So you think that joke of a joke you just told is going to hurt feelings? We can tell whose feelings are hurt.

Oh yeah, Trae Young will be much better than Me-nnis!! No one wants him even with what I consider a decent salary for a 'starting' point guard. He will go somewhere and be the sulking 6th.

[Buzzard]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

You pass on Doncic because he can't shoot.  If Doncic can't shoot then he will have a tough time scoring in the NBA because he isn't athletic

Doncic's shooting is why I gave him a best case 17, 6, and 6, I said a while back he is not JJ. I don't think he is Jason Kidd either. I see his ceiling somewhere in the middle. Not the scorer JJ was, not quite the distributor Kidd was.

Trae's ceiling is higher than Doncic. That is why we took him. Schlenk likes him and swung for the fences. I am good with that approach.

[Spud2nique]

13 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

The best comparison I’m seeing is Eric Bledsoe. Quality athlete and good defender. Question marks about playmaking and shooting.

Oh ya...I saw that a bit ago. That’s actually a pretty good one for sure. 

[JCDBaptist]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I actually like Dennis. Considering his floor, his improvement has been tremendous and he's a above average PG and a decent PG, a starter. 

The reason why I like him is his talent. His issue is simple. He's not a good enough natural PG to justify starting with his talent level. If he was as naturally talented as Westbrook or a young Rose, I could see it but for right now, he's a high end 6th man. Elite. Trae is the same right now to me. Maybe less so than Dennis but in the same range. The difference is, Trae could be much much much better. That's why Atlanta took him and PG is critical for the pace and space offense.

Without the right PG, the offense doesn't work.

I think there are 2 STARK differences between the 2 and that is elite shooting and vision. Also, PG skills with the pnr.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, EazyRoc said:

The best comparison I’m seeing is Eric Bledsoe. Quality athlete and good defender. Question marks about playmaking and shooting.

The issue I have with Bledsoe comparison is 

A. He's not a leader or a top tier competitor like Sexton

B. He is no where near as skilled as Sexton at the same age and I personally don't think he's more skilled right now 

C. Sexton while not being a great passer finds ways to make his teammates better, something I've never seen from Bledsoe.

 

The Bledsoe comparison is extremely shortsighted 

[sturt]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/6/14/17462490/trae-young-short-nba-draft

Quote

......Young’s destiny is unknown. I would bet strongly against him being a complete bust; he’s unafraid and capable of jacking up shots from deep off the catch, off screens, and off the dribble. And he’s a wonderful passer, too. Had his teammates actually hit shots, he’d have averaged even more than 8.7 assists.

 

But Young had a far longer leash in college than he’ll have maybe ever in the NBA, which helped boost his scoring numbers to the top of the college leaderboard. His flaws were also on full display. Young is a subpar athlete who struggles to finish around the rim and frequently gets his shot blocked or altered. That’s not all that different than Curry’s predraft scouting report, but Curry became an elite finisher by mastering creative touch finishes off the glass. Young can do that too, but there are no guarantees considering he’s smaller and not quite as athletic as Curry.

 

Young’s decision-making as a passer and shooter were issues in high school and college. He attempts too many risky passes that he has no business even trying; he averaged 5.2 turnovers with the Sooners. Young also takes far too many deep shots early in the clock and hits them at a low rate—Bjorn Zetterberg of Cleaning the Glass found that a 102 of Young’s 325 triples came from 30 feet or deeper, and he hit only 26 percent of them. Taking those shots is cool. Making them is a different story. Curry didn’t become the player he is now until later in his NBA career, but Young hasn’t displayed the makings of an all-time great shooter like Curry did at Davidson. Young never shot above 37.2 percent from 3 at any level in his life, while Curry has never shot worse than 38.7 percent. Young can become a great shooter, but he’s not Steph.

 

Every prospect can be nitpicked to death, but there’s significant pressure on Young to become either a transcendent offensive player like Curry or even just a great one like Lillard. Nothing less will suffice because no matter what scoring level he reaches, opponents will hunt him on defense.

 

I recently spoke to an executive about Young, and he summed up the debate in simple terms: If you don’t believe point guard defense matters, then pick Young. If you do believe point guard defense matters, then don’t pick Young..............

 

[nathan2331]

Even though I hated the pick, Trae Young is a better prospect than Doncic. His PG skills are just so advanced, and then you add his shooting ability and it puts him on another level. If he hits his ceiling, he's a more prolific Steve Nash, and I don't say that to be hyperbolic.

 

His ability to pass is his best asset and he knows it. I didn't give him the proper credit during the pre-draft process, but his athleticism isn't as big of a concern when you can pull up anywhere on the floor. Defenders have to respect it, which makes any shot fake deadly. He's also got great handles, nothing video game crazy yet, but he can get wherever he needs to go. I was hating on him before, but so long as we can get a SG teams have to respect offensively (whether that becomes Huerter or another draft pick) the sky is the limit for Young if he keeps progressing.

 

Doncic has shown a lot of advanced skills, but without the prolific shooting, his athleticism becomes a bigger concern. The size advantage he enjoyed will be gone in Dallas. While he can certainly become a star, it won't happen unless he becomes a better shooter. He just doesn't have the athleticism to overwhelm opponents driving to the basket.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Even though I hated the pick, Trae Young is a better prospect than Doncic. His PG skills are just so advanced, and then you add his shooting ability and it puts him on another level. If he hits his ceiling, he's a more prolific Steve Nash, and I don't say that to be hyperbolic.

 

His ability to pass is his best asset and he knows it. I didn't give him the proper credit during the pre-draft process, but his athleticism isn't as big of a concern when you can pull up anywhere on the floor. Defenders have to respect it, which makes any shot fake deadly. He's also got great handles, nothing video game crazy yet, but he can get wherever he needs to go. I was hating on him before, but so long as we can get a SG teams have to respect offensively (whether that becomes Huerter or another draft pick) the sky is the limit for Young if he keeps progressing.

 

Doncic has shown a lot of advanced skills, but without the prolific shooting, his athleticism becomes a bigger concern. The size advantage he enjoyed will be gone in Dallas. While he can certainly become a star, it won't happen unless he becomes a better shooter. He just doesn't have the athleticism to overwhelm opponents driving to the basket.

Doncic has much better PG skills and is his system versatile. 

For our system, Young might be a better fit.

[sturt]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

For our system, Young might be a better fit.

We have "a system?" I wasn't aware. Or at least, it's difficult to picture what has so-far been described.

[AHF]

My worry is that his ceiling is Pistol Pete who played a historically selfish game and never won a thing in his life  (college or pros) until he was coattail riding off the bench in Boston.

I strongly hope comps like Curry, Isiah Thomas, Nash, etc. will end up being more along the path he ends up taking.  Guys who could run offenses that didn’t solely revolve around them chucking.

[thecampster]

Go back in the Homecourt draft thread around the high 80's.  I made the case for Trae's defense back then. The simple answer is the vast majority of NBA games are a direct reflection of fast break opportunities. 

One of Lebron's greatest traits is that possessions with Lebron on the floor lead to less transition opportunities.  This is the mark of a great facilitator...how often he creates transition the wrong way.

Consider Jason Williams (White Chocolate).  Very flashy point guard but also very turnover prone and a poor shooter. Williams shot 32.7% from 3 for his career and 39.8% overall.  He averaged a fine assist to turnover ratio (5.9 to 2.1) but that was completely overshadowed by the fact he couldn't shoot and didn't draw defenders.  Turnovers told very little of the story. He created bad possessions. Now compare this to Young's freshman season. He shot 36% from 3 and 49% from 2 but while drawing enough fouls to create 8.6 free throws per game. His offensive creation for both himself and others limits bad shots for both.  A small rise in offensive efficiency across the board limits transition baskets for the other team. Additionally, his rebounding creates 2nd opportunities which immediately stops transition opportunities.

 

One on one defense is only part of the game. Limiting transition opportunities for the opponents is just or more important.

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

We have "a system?" I wasn't aware. Or at least, it's difficult to picture what has so-far been described.

Ya it’s called the Nellie run n gun baby doll!

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

My worry is that his ceiling is Pistol Pete who played a historically selfish game and never won a thing in his life  (college or pros) until he was coattail riding off the bench in Boston.

Wait are speaking about Young or Doncic?

[nathan2331]

 

 

Doncic has much better PG skills and is his system versatile. 

For our system, Young might be a better fit.

 

I disagree. I understand Real Madrid didn't play through Doncic like Oklahoma did for Young, but they both to me have exceptional PG skills. The difference being Doncic has the superior understanding of space on the court (kind of like LeBron has) but you can put the ball in Young's hands and he'll find somebody open before the shot clock expires. Doncic doesn't play like that and I doubt he can unless he either gets Ben Simmons athleticism or he becomes a prolific knock down shooter. Unless he has one of those tools, he's not gonna be able to separation against NBA wings.

[nathan2331]

My worry is that his ceiling is Pistol Pete who played a historically selfish game and never won a thing in his life  (college or pros) until he was coattail riding off the bench in Boston.

I strongly hope comps like Curry, Isiah Thomas, Nash, etc. will end up being more along the path he ends up taking.  Guys who could run offenses that didn’t solely revolve around them chucking.

Watching the games, I don't think he's a chucker, he just resorted to that to try and put points on the board. He's a more than willing passer and he doesn't have the ego of someone like Dennis who gets tunnel vision and starts believing he doesn't need his teammates. The Nash comparisons are there, we just need to put guys around him that can hit shots.

[NBASupes]

20 minutes ago, sturt said:

We have "a system?" I wasn't aware. Or at least, it's difficult to picture what has so-far been described.

Pace and Space. Pierce said it in several interviews I've watched. 

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Go back in the Homecourt draft thread around the high 80's.  I made the case for Trae's defense back then. The simple answer is the vast majority of NBA games are a direct reflection of fast break opportunities. 

One of Lebron's greatest traits is that possessions with Lebron on the floor lead to less transition opportunities.  This is the mark of a great facilitator...how often he creates transition the wrong way.

Consider Jason Williams (White Chocolate).  Very flashy point guard but also very turnover prone and a poor shooter. Williams shot 32.7% from 3 for his career and 39.8% overall.  He averaged a fine assist to turnover ratio (5.9 to 2.1) but that was completely overshadowed by the fact he couldn't shoot and didn't draw defenders.  Turnovers told very little of the story. He created bad possessions. Now compare this to Young's freshman season. He shot 36% from 3 and 49% from 2 but while drawing enough fouls to create 8.6 free throws per game. His offensive creation for both himself and others limits bad shots for both.  A small rise in offensive efficiency across the board limits transition baskets for the other team. Additionally, his rebounding creates 2nd opportunities which immediately stops transition opportunities.

 

One on one defense is only part of the game. Limiting transition opportunities for the opponents is just or more important.

I am out of likes but this is a damn good post.