Right Now.. Trae Is...

[kg01]

22 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I am baffled at the coaching reaction to his shot selection. I've never seen a player with a worse shot selection in my life than him. That includes Josh Smith. This kid will pull up with 20 seconds on the shot clock and take a forty foot three point shot for absolutely zero reason.

I would think the coaching staff would ball him out on the sidelines for plays like that but I didn't notice anything. There's a rather large difference between 2 seconds left on the shot clock and having to take a shot wherever you are on the court and chucking up forty foot three point shots with 20 seconds on the shot clock.

Hopefully there's behind the scenes coaching going on to get that mess sorted out pronto. The scarier thing is that based on SL play it seems to be the only three point shot he's actually made. What little threes he hit were from the way, way downtown variety.

Agreed but, to me, this isn't a Rayford issue.  It's a CLP issue.  I can't conceive of a competent NBA HC who will allow this to go on to any high degree.  I mean, it's plainly obvious that there are very, very few instances where a shot like that makes any kind of sense.  And none of those instances occur with greater than 3 seconds on the clock.

Are they just giving him enough rope to drown himself?  Giving them enough 'tape' to turn to him in a film session and say, "See, this is why you don't take that dumb-arse shot.  Your dumb-arse college coach allowed it because he's a dumb-arse, but if you want to win, we can't have that nonsense going on."

I hope so.  And as @JayBirdHawk said, get. rid. of. that. dumb. arse. 4. point. line.  I mean, why?

[AHF]

25 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I am baffled at the coaching reaction to his shot selection. I've never seen a player with a worse shot selection in my life than him. That includes Josh Smith. This kid will pull up with 20 seconds on the shot clock and take a forty foot three point shot for absolutely zero reason.

I would think the coaching staff would ball him out on the sidelines for plays like that but I didn't notice anything. There's a rather large difference between 2 seconds left on the shot clock and having to take a shot wherever you are on the court and chucking up forty foot three point shots with 20 seconds on the shot clock.

Hopefully there's behind the scenes coaching going on to get that mess sorted out pronto. The scarier thing is that based on SL play it seems to be the only three point shot he's actually made. What little threes he hit were from the way, way downtown variety.

I don't have any doubt he can hit the closer ones.  The real question is whether he will have trouble getting his shot off but that will take time to sort out.  He is playing in an almost completely chaotic non-system this summer which is only useful for seeing what people's natural tendencies look like and for getting the footage of teachable moments (which should be overflowing by now).  I expect a more structured offense will get him some better shots and he will shoot a better % on them.  I know a lot of star college guards suffer on their scoring but Trae should not be in the mold of the Salim's of the world who were super efficient in college but can never seem to get their shot off efficiently in the pros.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

And as @JayBirdHawk said, get. rid. of. that. dumb. arse. 4. point. line.  I mean, why?

That 4 pt line is scary as far as what our coaches are getting.  That line encourages and rewards the longer shots.  Not sure why that would be necessary.  At all.  The only circumstance I can see for using that is for teaching defensive principles where your perimeter defenders are not playing close enough to their assignments in the backcourt and you want to punish them in scrimmages if they don't more closely mark their man.  It shouldn't be a tool for shaping how the offense flows.

[kg01]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

That 4 pt line is scary as far as what our coaches are getting.  That line encourages and rewards the longer shots.  Not sure why that would be necessary.  At all.  The only circumstance I can see for using that is for teaching defensive principles where your perimeter defenders are not playing close enough to their assignments in the backcourt and you want to punish them in scrimmages if they don't more closely mark their man.  It shouldn't be a tool for shaping how the offense flows.

It should be for games of H.O.R.S.E. .... maybe.

I do recall Rayford speaking on it at the draft.  When asked, he did say it wasn't something they specifically used in offensive drills.  Reading between the lines, sounds like it's kinda just there and that they didn't use it for anything.

[AHF]

Just now, kg01 said:

It should be for games of H.O.R.S.E. .... maybe.

I do recall Rayford speaking on it at the draft.  When asked, he did say it wasn't something they specifically used in offensive drills.  Reading between the lines, sounds like it's kinda just there and that they didn't use it for anything.

The only thing I could see using it for on offense would be to track his % on shots from a certain distance away more easily to use that to coach him on it.  (You shoot 40% from the actual line but only 27% from the long distance line.  Stop looking for that shot.)

[Spud2nique]

You can be certain Trae will be launching a bunch of unwarranted 4 pointers during his first couple of seasons. Cringeworthy for us watching at home. Some will go in but most wont. He will learn from the and clean it up after a bit. 

 

Warning: If ur not a bald Hawks fan already, you might be after this season of watching 4.5 pointers being launched.

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

You can be certain Trae will be launching a bunch of unwarranted 4 pointers during his first couple of seasons. Cringeworthy for us watching at home. Some will go in but most wont. He will learn from the and clean it up after a bit. 

 

Warning: If ur not a bald Hawks fan already, you might be after this season of watching 4.5 pointers being launched.

This year is going to be brutal. What really sucks is Trae is getting completely outplayed by other one and done guards in Summer League.

[macdaddy]

Has anyone seen the crowd/bench reaction on a made 30 footer?    It's a little guy's dunk.   It has benefits and if you can hit a wide open 30 footer at a 35%+clip then why pass the ball around for 20 seconds?   I'm not saying take a lot of them but pulling the D out that far has advantages.   He makes them at a decent percentage because they are usually wide open and in rhythm like you're shooting in practice vs. normal 3s that are more contested.  

[Gray Mule]

One thing that we must not forget.  We've been told that all three of our draft picks this year have a high NBA IQ.  That means, they will be teachable.  Do we really believe what we've been told?  Or, do we believe that our teen aged players are all "dumb as a box of rocks?"

Come now.  Think.  Will our new head coach just turn these guys loose or will they try to control them and teach them how to be real, top notch NBA players? 

I believe all of us have had our thinking screwed up by last season's tanking.  We're not accustomed to thinking about our Hawks in that matter.  Winning!  That's what we play the game for, isn't it?  Nope.  Not last season.  Gaining that elusive chance in the draft was utmost.

GO ATL HAWKS !!

[AHF]

50 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Has anyone seen the crowd/bench reaction on a made 30 footer?    It's a little guy's dunk.   It has benefits and if you can hit a wide open 30 footer at a 35%+clip then why pass the ball around for 20 seconds?   I'm not saying take a lot of them but pulling the D out that far has advantages.   He makes them at a decent percentage because they are usually wide open and in rhythm like you're shooting in practice vs. normal 3s that are more contested.  

If he makes a high % of them that works.  If he makes them like he has in the summer league, then those should be shut down for good.  Missing 30 footers 70% of the time 4 seconds into the shot clock is really terrible.  You spend in inordinate amount of time on defense and everyone else on the team will be super frustrated.  Curry is the only guy who can get away with shooting that shot regularly today.

[StephenHawking]

To me its pretty obvious why he should keep shooting them IF hes able to knock down upwards from ~36%. Players have to respect his shot from way beyond the 3pt line. This leads to him stretching the floor nicely for all other players on our team. Just imagine how big of a hole arises around the freethrow-line. It makes us extremely tough to guard. 

Im all for it if he can make the shot every now and then.

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, StephenHawking said:

To me its pretty obvious why he should keep shooting them IF hes able to knock down upwards from ~36%. Players have to respect his shot from way beyond the 3pt line. This leads to him stretching the floor nicely for all other players on our team. Just imagine how big of a hole arises around the freethrow-line. It makes us extremely tough to guard. 

Im all for it if he can make the shot every now and then.

We'll see in the actual numbers if he is making them ~36% or not.  That would be a key to letting him have that freedom long-term.

[DBac]

On 7/10/2018 at 9:38 AM, AHF said:

That 4 pt line is scary as far as what our coaches are getting.  That line encourages and rewards the longer shots.  Not sure why that would be necessary.  At all.  The only circumstance I can see for using that is for teaching defensive principles where your perimeter defenders are not playing close enough to their assignments in the backcourt and you want to punish them in scrimmages if they don't more closely mark their man.  It shouldn't be a tool for shaping how the offense flows.

It’s for spacing.

[Flight]

On 7/10/2018 at 3:58 PM, macdaddy said:

Has anyone seen the crowd/bench reaction on a made 30 footer?    It's a little guy's dunk.   It has benefits and if you can hit a wide open 30 footer at a 35%+clip then why pass the ball around for 20 seconds?   I'm not saying take a lot of them but pulling the D out that far has advantages.   He makes them at a decent percentage because they are usually wide open and in rhythm like you're shooting in practice vs. normal 3s that are more contested.  

Also nothing diminishes the hearts of the defense quite like a guard hitting a few of those in a game lol

[AHF]

16 minutes ago, DBac said:

It’s for spacing.

Can you elaborate?  Shooting from half court offers spacing too but there is a reason there is only one player in the NBA regularly shooting from that distance.  Asking our rookie to be #1 in his first year seems like asking for trouble to me.

In addition, I am still unsure what benefit the 4 point line gives.  You get the same spacing benefits by having someone shoot from long distance whether the shot is worth 3 or 4 points but for game theory you distort the value of that shot by artificially increasing its value from 150% of a 2pt shot to 200%.

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

Can you elaborate?  Shooting from half court offers spacing too but there is a reason there is only one player in the NBA regularly shooting from that distance.  Asking our rookie to be #1 in his first year seems like asking for trouble to me.

You don't have to shoot many of them as long as you have convinced the defender he should guard you tight 30' out.   That creates the spacing.  You do have to make a few.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

You don't have to shoot many of them as long as you have convinced the defender he should guard you tight 30' out.   That creates the spacing.  You do have to make a few.

Exactly.  You don't have to make the shot worth 4 points to do this.  But making it worth 4 points meaningfully changes the break even point on that shot for scoring purposes.  25% from 4pt range = 33.3% from 3pt range.  Why artificially incent more shots from this distance?  I'd rather Trae learn to succeed taking higher value shots and only shoot the "4pt shot" when left open at appropriate times in the game to punish people who aren't guarding tight enough.  Making the shot 4pts changes that dynamic.

[Buzzard]

I love this. Trase has been on the highly questionable intrigued not intrigued segment three days in a row. 1st day only Papi voted a Si. Now Le Batard and Kimes are slowly coming over.

Kimes is being hard core still with a no; but it still a funny segment with Le Batard throwing her under the bus by saying she was the only one dead set against Trae to start with.

Now a revision to the original topic.

Trae is a potential combination of:

Nash: ability to pass in close quarters while keeping his dribble alive.

Magic and Bron: passes on target from 3/4 court.

AI: ability to get to the free throw line 8 times a game

Steph, logo range

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

I love this. Trase has been on the highly questionable intrigued not intrigued segment three days in a row. 1st day only Papi voted a Si. Now Le Batard and Kimes are slowly coming over.

Kimes is being hard core still with a no; but it still a funny segment with Le Batard throwing her under the bus by saying she was the only one dead set against Trae to start with.

Now a revision to the original topic.

Trae is a potential combination of:

Nash: ability to pass in close quarters while keeping his dribble alive.

Magic and Bron: passes on target from 3/4 court.

AI: ability to get to the free throw line 8 times a game

Steph, logo range

 

Based on this post I'm saying Trae is a victim of unrealistic expectations!  Let him be the first Trae Young before  we do make him our mix of many of the best aspects of 5 first ballot HOFers who have something like 10 MVPs between them.

[Buzzard]

Just now, AHF said:

Based on this post I'm saying Trae is a victim of unrealistic expectations!  Let him be the first Trae Young before  we do make him our mix of many of the best aspects of 5 first ballot HOFers who have something like 10 MVPs between them.

Anyway I said potential not my expectations, Stop reading into things I say with things you want to hear. tyvm