Fansided wrote a great article on the real impact of Trae Young's defense

[NBASupes]

https://fansided.com/2020/01/02/nylon-calculus-trae-young-defensive-issues/

Very interesting. They mentioned that Trae Young is one of the most active defenders in the NBA. This is true from the eye test. It also mentions, he is attacked at a fair high rate. It also mention his offense which excellent isn't elite and really doesn't make up completely for his defensive flaws which I also found to be true. He was right next to Bradley Beal who also been excellent on offense but poorus on defense. Even worse than Trae even though he is a more than capable defender in most seasons when his team is playing for something. 

These details tell me what I already know. We need a lot of defense around Trae Young to win games like Iverson with the Sixers. But we need those defenders, unlike the Sixers to be offensive studs as well in the modern NBA. 

Reviewing my metrics, we are a legit 31 win team if this lineup we had played all season via production and 32 if at full strength (Parker healthy, etc.). It's clear to me, we are underachieving this year when last year, we overachieved. A lot of this is terrible 4th quarter play and poor execution which is an issue all game this season compared to last when it was only an issue in the 1st half of the season. 

Interesting to see how we continue to build with these marks. 

[JayBirdHawk]

31 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

A lot of this is terrible 4th quarter play and poor execution which is an issue all game this season compared to last when it was only an issue in the 1st half of the season. 

Interesting to see how we continue to build with these marks. 

Trae, Huerter, Baze, Prince, Collins, Dedmon vs Trae, Huerter, Reddish, Hunter, Collins, Len

There's something to be said about NBA experience in executing a game plan.  

These young players will hopefully learn by doing, learn from the mistakes.

 

[benhillboy]

Trae’s career win shares tell you all you need to know about how fatal his floor game is.  3.5 below Mitchell Robinson.  Same as SGA, who actually helps his teams to the playoffs in a tougher conference.  I don’t want no beef Supes lol.

Edited January 12, 2020 by benhillboy

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

Trae’s career win shares tell you all you need to know about how fatal his floor game is.  3.5 below Mitchell Robinson.  Same as SGA, who actually helps his teams to the playoffs in a tougher conference.  I don’t want no beef Supes lol.

So let's trade Trae for Mitchell Robinson, seeing that we need a center.  We'll let Goodwin run the point full time.

 

PG - Goodwin

G - Huerter

F - Hunter

PF - Collins

C - Robinson

 

LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

[JTB]

Definitely!....Defense around Trae is a huge huge priority but like supes said those guys have to be able to be efficient offensively as well.

We pretty much know Schlenk is aware of this and the drafting of Cam and Hunter are clear indications that it’s being addressed or effort is at least going into it.

i can’t get completely behind the make up of all these numbers though defensively....not to suggest trae is better than the actual numbers but he’s so heavily relied on offensively that if he goes cold it wouldn’t matter if we are playing defense or not in many of these games as these guys simply can’t score when he’s off the court .....in other words I just think it all works hand in hand together.

[AUhawksfan]

I’m curious from the miles standpoint on defense:  is that a result of Trae fighting through screens constantly on defense?

 

if so, I’m wondering if doing more switching would conserve his energy throughout the game and we’d get better quality on the offensive and defensive end. 

[JTB]

I’m a stat head on a lot of stuff I really am but this is a great example why numbers don’t always tell it all.

Trae is a bad defender no doubt but even on a losing season like this year there’s just no way in hell his offense isn’t making up for his bad defense the majority of the time! I mean maybe we will see these numbers by the eye test more once the team can actually play defense and score on close to avg without his presence on the court.

this team is so bad at scoring without Trae its NOT laughable 

12pts in the first quarter !...really ? 

[EazyRoc]

Our defense looked terrible without him today. Maybe his impact is really neutral because the entire team is just bad.

[NBASupes]

16 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Our defense looked terrible without him today. Maybe his impact is really neutral because the entire team is just bad.

His impact is twice times as much as his negative impact. He makes us substantially better. 

 

Brooklyn is a prime example why mid 1st rounders matter. The difference is, they landed two superstars in FA and we landed three top 10 picks. Our time table will take longer.

[EazyRoc]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

His impact is twice times as much as his negative impact. He makes us substantially better. 

 

Brooklyn is a prime example why mid 1st rounders matter. The difference is, they landed two superstars in FA and we landed three top 10 picks. Our time table will take longer.

Oh without a doubt.

I meant to say  defensive impact..

[NBASupes]

Just now, EazyRoc said:

Oh without a doubt.

I meant to say  defensive impact..

Sometimes your offense is so good, it's makes defense easier even if it's bad. Like tonight, our defense was better than it was with Trae but we still was fouling like crazy as usual, not getting stops with needed as usual, and struggling to rebound as usual. The difference was, we couldn't execute for shit on offense even if we made good decisions. Like I've said before, this team isn't build for the modern NBA this year. 

[macdaddy]

I was definitely ready to move on from Baze and Prince but we've gotten basically nothing from their replacements. 

There are times I really want to blame LP but no one is winning a lot of games when most of the rotation are rookies and sophomores sprinkled with some vets who are borderline in the league at all. 

As you've said many times Supes, Trae has accelerated the timeline.  I don't think all Hawks fans even thought he'd be an all star this year much less the non Hawks fans but i think everyone knows he is absolutely a star. 

I'm being patient but it seems like there is some vet talent out there to be had without mortgaging the future.  I think we need to do it. 

[AHF]

I didn't want us to sign Baze to that contract originally but I was in no way ready to move him for Evan freaking Turner.  You were already stuck paying that kind of salary.  Why take an obvious downgrade in a trade for him?  It just never made sense.

Prince made more sense as driven by 2 1st round picks and with Crabbe seeming like a fine stop-gap rotation piece (he has disappointed there for sure).

[Thomas]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I didn't want us to sign Baze to that contract originally but I was in no way ready to move him for Evan freaking Turner.  You were already stuck paying that kind of salary.  Why take an obvious downgrade in a trade for him?  It just never made sense.

LP's explanation made even less sense. 

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I didn't want us to sign Baze to that contract originally but I was in no way ready to move him for Evan freaking Turner.  You were already stuck paying that kind of salary.  Why take an obvious downgrade in a trade for him?  It just never made sense.

Prince made more sense as driven by 2 1st round picks and with Crabbe seeming like a fine stop-gap rotation piece (he has disappointed there for sure).

And Prince has disappointed this season too

[Atlantaholic]

7 hours ago, AHF said:

I didn't want us to sign Baze to that contract originally but I was in no way ready to move him for Evan freaking Turner.  You were already stuck paying that kind of salary.  Why take an obvious downgrade in a trade for him?  It just never made sense.

Prince made more sense as driven by 2 1st round picks and with Crabbe seeming like a fine stop-gap rotation piece (he has disappointed there for sure).

In all fairness adding Baze and removing Turner would at the very,very most give us maybe 1 more win this season. 

But yes, at its best a completely pointless move. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Atlantaholic

[AHF]

43 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

In all fairness adding Baze and removing Turner would at the very,very most give us maybe 1 more win this season. 

But yes, at its best a completely pointless move. 

It is tough to get too much worse than what Turner has done:  .434% TS% with a 27% turnover rate.  Even having the worst season of his career, Baze is a step or two better than ET.  

* Just noticed as an aside that with a single decent game, Cam should pass both Turner and VC for scoring efficiency on the season.   Hurray! 

[Atlantaholic]

47 minutes ago, AHF said:

It is tough to get too much worse than what Turner has done:  .434% TS% with a 27% turnover rate.  Even having the worst season of his career, Baze is a step or two better than ET.  

* Just noticed as an aside that with a single decent game, Cam should pass both Turner and VC for scoring efficiency on the season.   Hurray! 

Turner has been worse, but Baze is negative win shares on the year and has a 47% TS&, so it's really not that much of a difference.

[AHF]

3 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

Turner has been worse, but Baze is negative win shares on the year and has a 47% TS&, so it's really not that much of a difference.

Plus one has been a cancer of an attitude to the point where he is asked to stay home while the other has been a positive attitude.  Turner = burning money.