De'Andre Hunter

[Buzzard]

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

Try to spin it any way you want.  Now that you are agreeing with what I said, I think we've exhausted the useful debate for this thread.

No coach in the league would have had our team this season winning big.  The horses weren't there to run.  Is LP the right guy to help the team make the leap?  I don't know.  You are certain he isn't.  

Next season will be his first with a roster that should compete.  If they don't, then that is on him and we'll both agree on shipping him out.

He gets his pass because I have no control over it but he needs to improve dramatically with his rotations. I honestly think if we are on the losing end of .400 after 20 - 30 games next season he will get the boot before Christmas.

I do not want to see that happen. I hope Pierce is a solid young coach who keeps learning and can lead this team to the playoffs. But I don't have a lot of confidence in him after almost two seasons.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Buzzard

[JayBirdHawk]

Bud won 60 games, we should have kept him 

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The irony is that y'all are trashing Hunter's 1st year stats but elevating Pippin's? 

Pippen Shot 17% from 3, 57% from the free throw line https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/663/scottie-pippen

I am not elevating rookie Pippen's stats.  Rookie Pippen was a negative value player.  He got better.  A lot better.  HOFer better.  Getting better is what Hunter needs to do as well.  If he improves like Pippen did, we'll be in a great place with our roster.  Pippen is basically your best case scenario for Hunter.  

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

He gets his pass because I have no control over it but he needs to improve dramatically with his rotations. I honestly think if we are on the losing end of .400 after 20 games next season he will get the boot before Christmas.

I do not want to see that happen. I hope Pierce is a solid young coach who keeps learning and can lead this team to the playoffs. But I don't have a lot of confidence in him after almost two seasons.

But for some reason he has a lot support here.  Even more support than our players.  People were questioning Young his 1st year and now Collins and Hunter this year.  I find it pretty amazing in fact. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

But for some reason he has a lot support here.  Even more support than our players.  People were questioning Young his 1st year and now Collins and Hunter this year.  I find it pretty amazing in fact. 

I don't believe he has more support than our players on this site but feel free to start a poll if you really believe that.  

For example, Supes is one of LP's biggest advocates on the site.  Do you really think he believes in LP more than Cam and Trae?  I don't.  Not for a second.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

I don't believe he has more support than our players on this site but feel free to start a poll if you really believe that.  

For example, Supes is one of LP's biggest advocates on the site.  Do you really think he believes in LP more than Cam and Trae?  I don't.  Not for a second.

He believes in LP over Collins

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

But for some reason he has a lot support here.  Even more support than our players.  People were questioning Young his 1st year and now Collins and Hunter this year.  I find it pretty amazing in fact. 

Moving players around is the popular fix. Fantasy trades and speculation on trades is the fun thing to do. Firing someone is a much harder line and not as much fun to speculate about. At the end of the day, talking Coaches is boring.

Back on topic, I think half our roster was misplayed most of the season and this includes the subject of discussion, DeAndre Hunter.

[Peoriabird]

On 4/9/2020 at 5:26 PM, Buzzard said:

Moving players around is the popular fix. Fantasy trades and speculation on trades is the fun thing to do. Firing someone is a much harder line and not as much fun to speculate about. At the end of the day, talking Coaches is boring.

Back on topic, I think half our roster was misplayed most of the season and this includes the subject of discussion, DeAndre Hunter.

Without a doubt.  In fact at the 1st games of the season against Detroit and Orlando, He played a traditional line up and the defense and rebounding was excellent.  The Hawks were a top defensive team and were tops in rebounding. He was even playing Bruno a lot then everything changed.  Once Huerter got healthy, Pierce went all in on launching 3's which lead to the birth of majority small ball line ups.  He was playing Bruno a lot

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

He believes in LP over Collins

So now it is someone questions the long-term fit of one of our players and is positive on the coach and that gets you the label of believing in the coach over the players when you clearly believe much more strongly in other players than the coach?

I believe in LP over Damion Jones.  Guess I'm a player hater and LP lover by that definition.

I don't see a lot of value in that definition since all of us have our players who we believe in more than other posters.  I know I personally would not let any of our core go if it were them or LP.

(And I don't know that I agree with your characterization with him with Collins and LP - he has gone back and forth on Collins not based so much on his belief in Collins as a talent but more in whether he would fit with his long-term vision for the roster but I'll let him speak to it.)

[Vol4ever]

43 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Bud won 60 games, we should have kept him 

Yes you are correct.  One of the better coaches in the league.  No reason a coach of his calibur would go through a total teardown. 

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

(And I don't know that I agree with your characterization with him with Collins and LP - he has gone back and forth on Collins not based so much on his belief in Collins as a talent but more in whether he would fit with his long-term vision for the roster but I'll let him speak to it.)

Me and Buzzard couldn't be further apart. He wants a vet wing who can start. I just think we should roll with the kids and let them go through their bumps. 

He thinks much more of Collins than I do long term. I think we should make Harrell the primary target and sign him. Regardless if he starts or doesn't start, I want to see who makes us better long term. Since Collins is so low on the salary poll, we got options. I just know the sooner, the better in terms of compensation. 

I will be honest with you guys. I am disappointed in John overall. His impact just isn't there. His efficiency is exceptional but he's not that guy. Our offensive rating with him last year was 8th in the NBA. This year, we are barely better with him at 24th in the league. 

His raw stats look great but metrics are disappointing, I haven't been impressed with the eye test and I really think teams adjusted extremely well to him this year. This isn't John fault, he adjust to a degree but his impact isn't there this year regardless if his raw numbers are there.

I've moved on honestly. He got one more year of starting but he needs to be much better and I don't know if that's possible. 

You don't understand what I am saying. Without John, our offensive rating was dead last, 30th! With John 8th. John was significant in terms of impact for us. 

 

This year, our offensive rating is bad with him and without him. His impact hasn't been much different on offense than Jabari Parker for us. Last year, he was a star impact wise. His PPP has exceptionally high. 

I don't struggle with these numbers as the eye test says his game isn't that impactful, the metrics agree. Unless you have a better plan, shoot at it

We know Harrell is capable of shooting threes. He has done it in the Drew League. In our system, we will give him the chance. 

Also, our system has had non space guys in Jones and Parker. Neither of them are PnR guys or screen setting bigs. Our system would benefit all four of these bigs. Trae, Cam, and Kevin will benefit from them 

I see LP in a much higher light than you. LP can and will make this work

These are just a few of his comments

[Peoriabird]

Anyway, Back to Hunter. I agree with @Buzzard 100%

[AHF]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Me and Buzzard couldn't be further apart. He wants a vet wing who can start. I just think we should roll with the kids and let them go through their bumps. 

He thinks much more of Collins than I do long term. I think we should make Harrell the primary target and sign him. Regardless if he starts or doesn't start, I want to see who makes us better long term. Since Collins is so low on the salary poll, we got options. I just know the sooner, the better in terms of compensation. 

I will be honest with you guys. I am disappointed in John overall. His impact just isn't there. His efficiency is exceptional but he's not that guy. Our offensive rating with him last year was 8th in the NBA. This year, we are barely better with him at 24th in the league. 

His raw stats look great but metrics are disappointing, I haven't been impressed with the eye test and I really think teams adjusted extremely well to him this year. This isn't John fault, he adjust to a degree but his impact isn't there this year regardless if his raw numbers are there.

I've moved on honestly. He got one more year of starting but he needs to be much better and I don't know if that's possible. 

You don't understand what I am saying. Without John, our offensive rating was dead last, 30th! With John 8th. John was significant in terms of impact for us. 

 

This year, our offensive rating is bad with him and without him. His impact hasn't been much different on offense than Jabari Parker for us. Last year, he was a star impact wise. His PPP has exceptionally high. 

I don't struggle with these numbers as the eye test says his game isn't that impactful, the metrics agree. Unless you have a better plan, shoot at it

We know Harrell is capable of shooting threes. He has done it in the Drew League. In our system, we will give him the chance. 

Also, our system has had non space guys in Jones and Parker. Neither of them are PnR guys or screen setting bigs. Our system would benefit all four of these bigs. Trae, Cam, and Kevin will benefit from them 

I see LP in a much higher light than you. LP can and will make this work

These are just a few of his comments

Back and forth means he has made comments in both directions.  

[JayBirdHawk]

 

Quote

The Hawks sacrificed a great deal (including four draft picks) for the right to draft Hunter last summer. Atlanta viewed him as both a central long-term piece and a valuable short-term cog, and thus invested heavy minutes in him early in his career. Hunter led all rookies in minutes this season (32 per game, 2018 total) while starting 62 of his 63 appearances.

While he showed flashes of offensive upside as a rookie, Hunter’s primary appeal is his defense. With Trae Young clearly at the center of its long-term plans, Atlanta must build a specific kind of roster around its point guard. Young will likely always be one of the worst defensive players in the NBA, which necessitates placing a cast of versatile defenders around him. Hunter -- at 6-foot-7, 225 pounds, with a 7-foot-2 wingspan -- is critical to that endeavor.

 

Quote

. Like his teammate, Cam Reddish, Hunter could be more proactive in stepping into and attaching himself to ball-handlers before screens occur to avoid getting picked off. He’ll also need to get stronger to hold up as a small-ball power forward and to physically challenge superstar wings.

Unlike Reddish, he isn’t a particularly disruptive or aggressive defender; he prefers to simply stay in front of the ball and keep the action under control. Hunter posted extremely low block and steal rates for a forward, which diminished his value as a rim protector and help defender. He seldom gets in the passing lanes or reaches for the ball, and doesn’t dart around the floor looking to incite chaos. There is a balance to find between disruption and discipline; wreaking havoc and forcing turnovers shouldn’t necessarily come at the expense of defensive integrity. But Hunter could stand to dial up his activity, and likely will as he becomes more comfortable on defense.

Quote

Hunter was more productive and efficient after Collins returned from suspension. In a more limited off-ball role -- the kind he’ll play for the fully-formed Hawks -- the rookie blossomed into a reliable standstill 3-point shooter from both the corners and above the break. Hunter shoots an easy ball with a high release and tight rotation, and he became increasingly willing to shoot as coaches and teammates encouraged him to do so.

He showed flashes of proficiency in the midrange and the post -- areas he could develop into handy failsafes as a tertiary creator or on second units. Hunter isn’t an outstanding playmaker, but for a rookie showed promising feel and acuity making basic reads -- possibly a product of spending two years in a finely-tuned college system. He keeps his head up in drive-and-kick scenarios, and instinctively makes the extra pass to the corner when defenses close out to him

 

[Peoriabird]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

Hunter’s primary appeal is his defense. With Trae Young clearly at the center of its long-term plans, Atlanta must build a specific kind of roster around its point guard. Young will likely always be one of the worst defensive players in the NBA, which necessitates placing a cast of versatile defenders around him. Hunter -- at 6-foot-7, 225 pounds, with a 7-foot-2 wingspan -- is critical to that endeavor.

Sounds like an amateur wrote this!

[JayBirdHawk]

Quote

Hunter’s shot woke up in November, shooting 39% from beyond the three-point arc in the 30-day period. This proved to be more of the norm, as he shot 36% on above-the-break threes for the season, per Cleaning the Glass. Hunter was passive in the early going, on both ends of the court, but more so in terms of physical contact than being too shy to turn down an open jumper.Somewhat surprisingly, he was actually part of the Hawks’ shooting issues in terms of not living up to the potential of their overall team shot profile, as he converted on only 32.7% of “open threes” (open is classified as the closest defender being 4-6 feet away on NBA Stats), 

The overall shooting success was as expected, if there’s an area of concern and uncertainty in regards to Hunter’s game at this stage, it’s how big of an impact he truly makes on the defensive end after a relatively quiet rookie season. Both his block and steal rates rank among the worst at his position, below the 25th percentile in each category. While ‘stocks’ don’t tell the entire story, he was not necessarily a positive defensively for the Hawks, particularly compared to the fellow rookie wing Reddish, who is already developing a reputation as one of the future wing ‘stoppers’ around the league.

This is perhaps the biggest red flag to monitor for Hunter whenever basketball resumes. He projects to be and looks the part of a capable shooter, and even showed a little bit of a face-up game.

The one part of Hunter’s defensive game that did deliver right away was his versatility.

The Hawks may be more willing to put Hunter at the 4 given his late-season rebound surge, but for now, it appears they enjoy using his length on the wing as opposed to near the basket. With Clint Capela and John Collins in the fold, look for Hunter to play a lot of wing whenever play resumes for Atlanta. With three more years of team control, Hunter is obviously still a huge part of Atlanta’s core and should be a solid piece going forward, with his overall level of impact largely tied to his ability to be a clear positive defensively.

 

 

[Buzzard]

21 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

The only thing I don't care for is the comment about Hunter playing Power Forward. 6 - 8 boards a game is PG13 and Leonard territory for a Small Forward. It is pitiful for a Power Forward.

Quote

The Hawks may be more willing to put Hunter at the 4 given his late-season rebound surge, but for now, it appears they enjoy using his length on the wing as opposed to near the basket.

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Buzzard

[hazer]

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

The only thing I don't care for is the comment about Hunter playing Power Forward. 6 - 8 boards a game is PG13 and Leonard territory for a Small Forward. It is pitiful for a Power Forward.

 

Couldn't agree more: 'Dre is a 3 and should only play 4 in very limited small-ball minutes. 

[Buzzard]

On 4/9/2020 at 6:02 PM, Peoriabird said:

Me and Buzzard couldn't be further apart. He wants a vet wing who can start. I just think we should roll with the kids and let them go through their bumps. 

He thinks much more of Collins than I do long term. I think we should make Harrell the primary target and sign him. Regardless if he starts or doesn't start, I want to see who makes us better long term. Since Collins is so low on the salary poll, we got options. I just know the sooner, the better in terms of compensation. 

 

I see LP in a much higher light than you. LP can and will make this work

These are just a few of his comments

I don't want Crowder to start. I want someone who can come off the bench. Crowder or Grant will do. I do think a lot of Collins and he cannot be moved just to move. Despite his PED fubar, he is still one of only a handful of Power Forwards capable of giving us 20 and 10 in as efficient a manner as anyone has a right to ask for.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Buzzard

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I don't want Crowder to start. I want someone who can come off the bench. Crowder or Grant will do. I do think a lot of Collins and he cannot be moved just to move. Despite his PED fubar, he is still one of only a handful of Power Forwards capable of giving us 20 and 10 in as efficient a manner as anyone has a right to ask for.

These are quotes from @NBASupes