De'Andre Hunter

[Gray Mule]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

If you are asking if I will trade LP for Pops, etc. then the answer is "yes please."  

Teams trade all types of players, even superstars. They almost never trade coaches.

But sometimes a coach will "walk away" because the grass is greener.  The crazy, even, shall we say stupid part is, the coach is still on our payroll.  Bud left.  His salary went with him.  As long as he draws pay from Atlanta he should be required to stay here and work.  He could sell peanuts to the fans if nothing else.

When a coach leaves and goes to another team, that team should be required to take his contract and pay his salary.  If a coach is fired and has money coming to him, he should get his money until some team hires him.  Then, they pick up the coach AND the contract.

[hazer]

40 minutes ago, hazer said:

Ded returning to his 3-ball form, Cam/Dre/Red continuing to raise their 3-ball %, respectable 3-shooting Teague shooting MORE 3s, and acquiring Joe Harris will do the trick

 

39 minutes ago, turnermx said:

More effective drives will lead to higher 3pt% - granted they are infrequent but if Heurter and Dre got better at finishing it would open up the perimeter a little more for Trae and Cam as well. 

Let's not forget J-Bap's 40% from 3 on nearly 4 shots a game

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Don't get me wrong, talent is very important to winning in the NBA but coaching is a close second cause outside of Jordan and Pippen and Pippen wasn't a complete player himself, what did the Bulls have? They even made it to the conference finals without Jordan in 95.  So to me, wasting time with a coach that is obviously below average while you should be searching for that exceptional coach makes no sense to me.

First of all.  Wow.  You are super underrating Pippen.  He wasn't a complete player?  That is crazy.   Few players in NBA history were more complete than him.  Elite defender.  Stud rebounder at the SF position.  Outstanding passer.  Averaged over 20 ppg over 7 years of his prime.  He wasn't a guy who was going to lead the league in scoring but other than that?  What else do you possibly want from him?!?

The Bulls also had supporting players who were good enough to make All-Star appearances in their careers like Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman, and Charles Oakley. 

They also had a host of other supporting players ranging from near All-Stars to more limited but effective role players:  Ron Harper, Toni Kukoc, Bill Cartwright, BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley, etc.

[AHF]

37 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

But sometimes a coach will "walk away" because the grass is greener.  The crazy, even, shall we say stupid part is, the coach is still on our payroll.  Bud left.  His salary went with him.  As long as he draws pay from Atlanta he should be required to stay here and work.  He could sell peanuts to the fans if nothing else.

When a coach leaves and goes to another team, that team should be required to take his contract and pay his salary.  If a coach is fired and has money coming to him, he should get his money until some team hires him.  Then, they pick up the coach AND the contract.

You may remember me complaining loudly about this.  Ressler clearly valued positive PR at that point in time more than the money.  I can't explain why we paid him to coach the Bucks without him agreeing to a reduced buyout.  

[Peoriabird]

20 minutes ago, AHF said:

First of all.  Wow.  You are super underrating Pippen.  He wasn't a complete player?  That is crazy.   Few players in NBA history were more complete than him.  Elite defender.  Stud rebounder at the SF position.  Outstanding passer.  Averaged over 20 ppg over 7 years of his prime.  He wasn't a guy who was going to lead the league in scoring but other than that?  What else do you possibly want from him?!?

The Bulls also had supporting players who were good enough to make All-Star appearances in their careers like Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman, and Charles Oakley. 

They also had a host of other supporting players ranging from near All-Stars to more limited but effective role players:  Ron Harper, Toni Kukoc, Bill Cartwright, BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley, etc.

The point is that many players on that all star list were very limited and would not win under Pierce.  Can you imagine Rodman and Oakley playing for LP?  LOL!

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The point is that many players on that all star list were very limited and would not win under Pierce.  Can you imagine Rodman and Oakley playing for LP?  LOL!

Jordan's Bulls would have won under me let alone LP.  My lack of expertise would almost surely have lowered their ceiling but you could take a group like that and roll them out without a coach and they would trounce the 2019-20 Hawks if they were coached by some mutant ultra combination of Red, Pops, Riley and Phil all rolled into one. 

Talent is more important than coaching.  Coaching is important but secondary to the roster.

[Peoriabird]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

Jordan's Bulls would have won under me let alone LP.  My lack of expertise would almost surely have lowered their ceiling but you could take a group like that and roll them out without a coach and they would trounce the 2019-20 Hawks if they were coached by some mutant ultra combination of Red, Pops, Riley and Phil all rolled into one. 

Talent is more important than coaching.  Coaching is important but secondary to the roster.

Jordan didn't win jack without Phil Jackson.  Even though he had been in the league 6 years prior to Jackson getting there.

[Peoriabird]

Even Steph Curry needed a better coach

[AHF]

23 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Jordan didn't win jack without Phil Jackson.  Even though he had been in the league 6 years prior to Jackson getting there.

Not sure what point you think you are making here. 

If your point is Phil Jackson is more important than Michael Jordan to those rings then...

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

You may remember me complaining loudly about this.  Ressler clearly valued positive PR at that point in time more than the money.  I can't explain why we paid him to coach the Bucks without him agreeing to a reduced buyout.  

well i'm afraid to even start but he did agree to a reduced buyout.  we paid him the difference between his bucks salary and hawks salary.  

[macdaddy]

Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Pop, Kerr.  They suddenly don't coach as well without hall of famers.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Not sure what point you think you are making here. 

If your point is Phil Jackson is more important than Michael Jordan to those rings then...

Jackson does have more rings 11 vs 6 and 5 of them were without Jordan

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

well i'm afraid to even start but he did agree to a reduced buyout.  we paid him the difference between his bucks salary and hawks salary.  

First time I've heard this.  Would be interested to read the source on this.

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Jackson does have more rings 11 vs 6 and 5 of them were without Jordan

You hitch yourself to the notion that it was Phil who did it and not the MVP level talent.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

First time I've heard this.  Would be interested to read the source on this.

You hitch yourself to the notion that it was Phil who did it and not the MVP level talent.

Remember those rings he won in NY when he didn't have Kobe / Shaq/ MJ?

How many rings did Kobe win without Jackson...He had a long career?

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

How many rings did Kobe win without Jackson...He had a long career?

Look at Larry Brown as an example.

He won a title with the Pistons.  The season after he left how far did they fall?  Oh, they won 10 more games than they won with him previously.

How did he do after that with  overmatched rosters?

111-163 with NY and Charlotte.  Is it because he forgot to coach?

Kobe won 61 games before Phil arrived.  Phil never coached without multiple HOFers on his teams.  

[Peoriabird]

In fact, Jackson left after the 03-4 season.  That team went to the finals.  The very next year the team was coached by someone else and they won 34 games.  Jackson came back the following year and they were in the playoffs again

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

Kobe had a winning record without Phil.  Phil never coached without multiple HOFers on his teams.  

SF	6-8	215	June 30, 1985	us	4	UCLA
12	Shannon Brown	SG	6-4	205	November 29, 1985	us	2	Michigan State
24	Kobe Bryant	SG	6-6	212	August 23, 1978	us	12
17	Andrew Bynum	C	7-0	285	October 27, 1987	us	3
5	Jordan Farmar	PG	6-2	180	November 30, 1986	us	2	UCLA
2	Derek Fisher	PG	6-1	200	August 9, 1974	us	12	Little Rock
16	Pau Gasol	C	7-0	250	July 6, 1980	es	7
28	Didier Ilunga-Mbenga	C	7-0	245	December 30, 1980	cd	4
31	Chris Mihm	C	7-0	265	July 16, 1979	us	7	Texas
6	Adam Morrison	SF	6-8	205	July 19, 1984	us	1	Gonzaga
7	Lamar Odom	PF	6-10	220	November 6, 1979	us	9	Rhode Island
21	Josh Powell	PF	6-9	225	January 25, 1983	us	3	NC State
10	Vladimir Radmanović	SF	6-10	227	November 19, 1980	ba	7
18	Sasha Vujačić	SG	6-7	195	March 8, 1984	si	4
4	Luke Walton	SF	6-8	235	March 28, 1980	us	5	Arizona
9	Sun Yue     Is this a superstar laden roster?

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

SF	6-8	215	June 30, 1985	us	4	UCLA
12	Shannon Brown	SG	6-4	205	November 29, 1985	us	2	Michigan State
24	Kobe Bryant	SG	6-6	212	August 23, 1978	us	12
17	Andrew Bynum	C	7-0	285	October 27, 1987	us	3
5	Jordan Farmar	PG	6-2	180	November 30, 1986	us	2	UCLA
2	Derek Fisher	PG	6-1	200	August 9, 1974	us	12	Little Rock
16	Pau Gasol	C	7-0	250	July 6, 1980	es	7
28	Didier Ilunga-Mbenga	C	7-0	245	December 30, 1980	cd	4
31	Chris Mihm	C	7-0	265	July 16, 1979	us	7	Texas
6	Adam Morrison	SF	6-8	205	July 19, 1984	us	1	Gonzaga
7	Lamar Odom	PF	6-10	220	November 6, 1979	us	9	Rhode Island
21	Josh Powell	PF	6-9	225	January 25, 1983	us	3	NC State
10	Vladimir Radmanović	SF	6-10	227	November 19, 1980	ba	7
18	Sasha Vujačić	SG	6-7	195	March 8, 1984	si	4
4	Luke Walton	SF	6-8	235	March 28, 1980	us	5	Arizona
9	Sun Yue     Is this a superstar laden roster?

An All-Star and two HOFers.   It was all Phil.

[Peoriabird]

Well that team won 65 games as well as a championship

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

An All-Star and two HOFers.   It was all Phil.

You know there were better team out there right?

 

Like this team for starters

20	Ray Allen	SG	6-5	205	July 20, 1975	us	12	UConn
42	Tony Allen	SG	6-4	213	January 11, 1982	us	4	Butler County Community College, Oklahoma State
11	Glen Davis	C	6-9	289	January 1, 1986	us	1	LSU
5	Kevin Garnett	PF	6-11	240	May 19, 1976	us	13
4	J.R. Giddens	SF	6-5	215	February 13, 1985	us	R	Kansas, New Mexico
50	Eddie House	PG	6-1	180	May 14, 1978	us	8	Arizona State
8	Stephon Marbury	PG	6-2	180	February 20, 1977	us	12	Georgia Tech
7	Mikki Moore	C	6-11	225	November 4, 1975	us	10	Nebraska
26	Patrick O'Bryant	C	7-0	260	June 20, 1986	us	2	Bradley
43	Kendrick Perkins	C	6-10	270	November 10, 1984	us	5
34	Paul Pierce	SF	6-7	235	October 13, 1977	us	10	Kansas
0	Leon Powe	PF	6-8	240	January 22, 1984	us	2	California
13	Gabe Pruitt	SG	6-4	170	April 19, 1986	us	1	USC
9	Rajon Rondo	PG	6-1	186	February 22, 1986	us	2	Kentucky
44	Brian Scalabrine	C	6-9	241	March 18, 1978	us	7	USC
12	Henry Walker	SF	6-6	220

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

Not sure what point you think you are making here. 

If your point is Phil Jackson is more important than Michael Jordan to those rings then...

What you're witnessing is agenda-ing at work.  Peo wants us to be the Suns and there's nothing any of us can do to sway him off it.