Hawks Offseason Officially Starts!

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

If Trae is your building block going forward. You need 4 versatile, skilled defenders around him to make up for his subpar defense. 

Do you really? Most here are considering resigning John as a serious option. He's clearly not that. For me, if you can have to elite offensive weapons at the 1/4 like Trae/Toppin, that would overwrite their lack of defensive impact. 

[bleachkit]

26 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Do you really? Most here are considering resigning John as a serious option. He's clearly not that. For me, if you can have to elite offensive weapons at the 1/4 like Trae/Toppin, that would overwrite their lack of defensive impact. 

What are you going to do about teams picking on Trae possession after possession? Maybe he will get better on that end, but probably not that much.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

What are you going to do about teams picking on Trae possession after possession? Maybe he will get better on that end, but probably not that much.

You can win titles with a defensive weaklink like Trae Young if he's that freaking good on offense. 

[bleachkit]

43 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You can win titles with a defensive weaklink like Trae Young if he's that freaking good on offense. 

Steve Nash was an awful defender and still should of won 2. Suns got screwed by the league and had some back luck in the playoffs. 

[Buzzard]

13 hours ago, kg01 said:

Toppin isn't a can't-miss guy.  Not even close.

And, no, I'm not Collins' #1 fan - preemptive strike

I may be one of Collins top fans here and I also like Toppin inside the top 10 of this draft. With that being said, I am not getting all googly eyed over any big in this draft replacing Collins from jump street; and its quite possible they will never be as good.

The nearer the draft gets, the more wide eyed some fans get about the next great something or the other. Schlenk knows where his bread is buttered. His brand of butter is called Trae Young and John Collins. Collins is not going anywhere before the start of next season; especially with the expectations that a rookie will replace him. Imagine the kind of season we would have coming up without Collins. Trae would be so pissed, CP3 like trade demands would be right around the corner.

Here is a clue for the ill informed and/or those wearing rose colored glasses about the bigs in this draft class. We went 4 and 21 without Collins during his suspension. I am sure Schlenk and Trae want some more of that ( sarcasm ).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/collijo01/gamelog/2020

 

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

I may be one of Collins top fans here and I also like Toppin inside the top 10 of this draft. With that being said, I am not getting all googly eyed over any big in this draft replacing Collins from jump street; and its quite possible they will never be as good.

The nearer the draft gets, the more wide eyed some fans get about the next great something or the other. Schlenk knows where his bread is buttered. His brand of butter is called Trae Young and John Collins. Collins is not going anywhere before the start of next season; especially with the expectations that a rookie will replace him. Imagine the kind of season we would have coming up without Collins. Trae would be so pissed, CP3 like trade demands would be right around the corner.

Here is a clue for the ill informed and/or those wearing rose colored glasses about the bigs in this draft class. We went 4 and 21 without Collins during his suspension. I am sure Schlenk and Trae want some more of that ( sarcasm ).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/collijo01/gamelog/2020

 

 

You would be a fool to put losses on purely on Collins absence and not the fact that a team that has tremendous depth issues with Collins like we aren't going to be awful when they are without Collins and at times without Huerter playing rookies, Parker, and Jones with Trae Young. Bread is buttered my f***ing ass.

We didn't win that many games this years regardless and a 20 games overall this season. 15-26 when John played, you are out if your mind if you really think because we went 15-26 with John, we should massively overpay him, maybe even max him and our bread is buttered with John. Please stop it. Embarrassing! Bad teams stay stuck when they overpay guys like John Collins, and get stuck in mediocrity when they massively overpay him unless he's a sum of a part like Wiggins is in Golden State right now. You mean to tell me a kid with a 1.7 WAR and a -0.3 RAPTOR is where our bread is buttered as an overpay candidate? What??? If that's the case, Collins better be worth a lot of wins that don't show up but he's clearly not. 15-26 isn't playoff worthy if you go to 82 games and projected it out but bread is buttered, lol.

[JayBirdHawk]

17 hours ago, NBASupes said:

That's a damn good deal. I guess you think much higher of John than I do and that's why you are hell hath fire over this. If we can get Anthony and Toppin and sign Sap, that's an amazing big moves offseason. We just need to no one cares outside of Atlanta moves to be really good.

You really f***ing love John. I like him, to a point. Hell, I loved Joe to a point. When we overpaid for him, I was furious and I loved him. The only player I was ever pissed we didn't pay the max to was Horford but many including you didn't want him at that price no matter what. I did. So we see shit differently. That's fine but I see the shit I see as the shit I see. You do as well for you. That's cool but let's not knock each other for it. 

For me, Collins overpay would be worse than Wiggins. For you, you think he deserves a lot and what's wrong with the max. I don't see him as impactful, just a stat guy on a bad team who's impact is best in a grouping than as a best player or best of players. He needs to be someone 3rd or 4th best player no matter what. That's not a max cat in ANY WAY if his defense is just below average at best and he can't defend outside of the paint well. 

For you, you see the stats, the age, and you see where he started. You just see things completely sunny and you assume the rest will come. That's fine if that's your take but its not mines at all. 

We see this differently. Even Toppin we see differently. I see an potential offensive monster at the 4. I don't know what you see but it's not what I see. I see Sap as an impact player for 24 mpg. I don't know what you see but that's what I see

No to everything you pretty much said.

We can, still draft Edwards, keep Collins, sign Sap.

We aren't drafting two rookies in a weak class and hope one gives you the production of JC.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

17 hours ago, NBASupes said:

 

You really f***ing love John. I like him, to a point. Hell, I loved Joe to a point. When we overpaid for him, I was furious and I loved him. The only player I was ever pissed we didn't pay the max to was Horford but many including you didn't want him at that price no matter what. I did. So we see shit differently. That's fine but I see the shit I see as the shit I see. You do as well for you. That's cool but let's not knock each other for it. 

For me, Collins overpay would be worse than Wiggins. For you, you think he deserves a lot and what's wrong with the max. I don't see him as impactful, just a stat guy on a bad team who's impact is best in a grouping than as a best player or best of players. He needs to be someone 3rd or 4th best player no matter what. That's not a max cat in ANY WAY if his defense is just below average at best and he can't defend outside of the paint well. 

Just to note...I never said John deserves or we should pay him a max. I'm an advocate of waiting until next season to resign him.  My reference to paying JC a max was in direct contrast that paying Trez $22 mil and Hayward $30 mil I knew who my preference to pay was.

You're the one with irrational love for Toppin, thinking he's gonna just come in and put up JC type numbers as a rookie

[Buzzard]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

No to everything you pretty much said.

We can, still draft Edwards, keep Collins, sign Sap.

We aren't drafting two rookies in a weak class and hope one gives you the production of JC.

 

Its the nature of the beast. If we would have went 0 - 25 during Collins suspension, it would still not change some peoples minds about him. The draft is so much more exciting for some than a player who put up 20 and 10 in just his 3rd season.

Like I said, the closer the draft gets the more hype for players we will be reading. I'd not be surprised one bit if someone does not end up wanting to declare drafting Ball to replace Trae soon due to his weak defense. Despite Ball not being a good defender either

[Vol4ever]

I'm hoping we keep JC.  You are going to have to pay anybody putting up the numbers he is. 

[Buzzard]

11 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

I'm hoping we keep JC.  You are going to have to pay anybody putting up the numbers he is. 

Unless Collins is willing to take a haircut of some sort, Schlenk will probably let the market determine his value. I would bet the bank we do not let him walk.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

No to everything you pretty much said.

We can, still draft Edwards, keep Collins, sign Sap.

We aren't drafting two rookies in a weak class and hope one gives you the production of JC.

 

Sap is not signing to play Teague minutes. Collins minutes is locked in at 30MPG at min. That means at most 18 MPG for Sap. Our PF market is limited just due to Collins minutes per game reqs. The best options we have is the types like Bobby Portis. 
 

Yes to everything I've said if that's the route Atlanta wants to go in my opinion. I've said this a thousand times, we need to keep Collins if we think we can sign him to a market fair or friendly deal. If we don't feel that will be the case, move him to GS for a top 5 pick and sign Millsap to start next season. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

59 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Just to note...I never said John deserves or we should pay him a max. I'm an advocate of waiting until next season to resign him.  My reference to paying JC a max was in direct contrast that paying Trez $22 mil and Hayward $30 mil I knew who my preference to pay was.

You're the one with irrational love for Toppin, thinking he's gonna just come in and put up JC type numbers as a rookie

I don't have irrational love for anyone in this draft. I just value him more than some of you.

NBA positional value speaks for Hayward. Out of the three, he's clearly the one trending south and would be an obvious overpay but true wings with size who produce simply aren't a dime a dozen and it's a need position. Trez would be overpaid at 22 mil per obviously but so would Collins to a worse degree as he's not close to Trez on defense. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

Quote

Ideal fit: Atlanta Hawks

Heavily reliant on Trae Young for generating offense, the Hawks could use another scorer like Edwards to take some pressure off the All-Star point guard. Cam Reddish and De'Andre Hunter have given Atlanta three-and-D, and John Collins is highly productive and efficient off the catch. But they don't offer the creation that Edwards can out of isolation or ball-screen situations. 

A smaller workload for Young could mean fewer tough shots and more energy for defense. He also shot 46.0 percent off the catch, per Synergy Sports, a good sign for his potential to effectively share a backcourt with another creator. 

Edwards will need to get more comfortable playing alongside a ball-dominator, but working on his spot-up game early should be beneficial for his long-term development. 

 

[bird_dirt]

17 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Please, please, please baby jeebus. This is all I ask for the Hawks this year. They deserve it, they've been good. They're due for something like this. 

[JayBirdHawk]

I was hoping they'd have a combine.

Quote

Player workouts leading up to the NBA Draft are unlikely due to liability issues, league sources told Jonathan Givony and Mike Schmitz of ESPN.

There are preliminary discussions for the possibility of a prospect gathering in Orlando that could include medical testing, player measurements, and interviews.

The league's preference is to see how the initial weeks in Orlando go before deciding on whether to bring prospects to Orlando.

The 2020 draft is tentatively scheduled for October 15th.

JONATHAN GIVONY & MIKE SCHMITZ/ESPN

 

[kg01]

Edwards is probably more likely to follow Hezonja's career path than he is to be a productive player in year 1 or 2.

[Buzzard]

17 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Edwards is probably more likely to follow Hezonja's career path than he is to be a productive player in year 1 or 2.

I think the comparisons to Wade are overzealous. He may one day be the scorer but never the defender. Kid needs 2 - 3 years and then watch out.

[warcore]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Sap is not signing to play Teague minutes. Collins minutes is locked in at 30MPG at min. That means at most 18 MPG for Sap. Our PF market is limited just due to Collins minutes per game reqs. The best options we have is the types like Bobby Portis. 
 

Yes to everything I've said if that's the route Atlanta wants to go in my opinion. I've said this a thousand times, we need to keep Collins if we think we can sign him to a market fair or friendly deal. If we don't feel that will be the case, move him to GS for a top 5 pick and sign Millsap to start next season. 

Now that's an avenue I'd be open to. Otherwise, I'm all about keeping JC - this is just the only option I'd be ok with if we don't retain him. Do you know anything about GS planning to trade their pick regardless of where it lands @NBASupes ?

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

I think the comparisons to Wade are overzealous. He may one day be the scorer but never the defender. Kid needs 2 - 3 years and then watch out.

He needs that long just to learn how to play basketball.  Then he'll need time to see how he can be effective.

Then he might be something something.

See where I'm going?  This is like 4-5 years down the line.  By then, Collins and Trae may be on other teams.