Hawks Offseason Officially Starts!

[kg01]

Why would we purposely trade a productive player for another pick in a bad draft?

If we do that Schlenk should be fired and investigated for being a GS mole.

[Buzzard]

13 minutes ago, kg01 said:

He needs that long just to learn how to play basketball.  Then he'll need time to see how he can be effective.

Then he might be something something.

See where I'm going?  This is like 4-5 years down the line.  By then, Collins and Trae may be on other teams.

I think he can explode by year three. Players are adapting faster these days. Wade blew up his 2nd year at 23. Beal showed us what he was capable of in his 4th season at 22.

I would say Edwards ceiling is somewhere between those two when its all said and done. He is worth taking and sticking with. I don't want to trade Collins for Edwards. I am saying if we get lucky in the lottery we draft him.

[Buzzard]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Why would we purposely trade a productive player for another pick in a bad draft?

If we do that Schlenk should be fired and investigated for being a GS mole.

I agree 100%. If we can get two unprotected picks for Collins, swing for it. But not just one in a very weak draft.

[JayBirdHawk]

47 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Why would we purposely trade a productive player for another pick in a bad draft?

If we do that Schlenk should be fired and investigated for being a GS mole.

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, warcore said:

Now that's an avenue I'd be open to. Otherwise, I'm all about keeping JC - this is just the only option I'd be ok with if we don't retain him. Do you know anything about GS planning to trade their pick regardless of where it lands @NBASupes ?

GS been open to moving that pick for awhile if it's not Edwards but the Hawks haven't been exactly open to moving up either outside of for Edwards. Edwards is the only player I've seen teams hyped for this year of the bad teams who are trying to be good. 

Some good teams like Wiseman but they haven't exactly did their homework as he's out of their range. Ball seems to be the consensus #1 but so few teams have the need for a starting PG who you have to build everything around.

I haven't heard any trade talks between Atlanta and GS about any picks but I know they been primarily talking about prospects. 

It wouldn't surprise me if Atlanta liked Haliburton because I know Golden State does. Then again, both teams like Toppin. Fit is the issue I am hearing in GS. They want to sign a FA vet center if they can't trade for a perfect fit with their assets. They would like to land Myles Turner but I've heard no interest from Indy. 

Like I said previously, no key players are available right now. People want to know what 2020-21 could look like before anyone is available outside of guys like Hield who isn't worth a top 5 pick.

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I agree 100%. If we can get two unprotected picks for Collins, swing for it. But not just one in a very weak draft.

No one in hell is trading two unprotected 1st round picks for John, he ain't Indy Paul George. 

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Why would we purposely trade a productive player for another pick in a bad draft?

If we do that Schlenk should be fired and investigated for being a GS mole.

TS would be smart to do it if he knows John is playing hardball. At the end of the day, good PFs are a dime a dozen. 

[bird_dirt]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Hawks not even listed among the top 3 lotto team fits for Toppin. BR clearly does not get follow @NBASupes. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by bird_dirt
Extra letter

[bleachkit]

54 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

TS would be smart to do it if he knows John is playing hardball. At the end of the day, good PFs are a dime a dozen. 

WWJD? (What would Jerry Krause do?)

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, bird_dirt said:

Hawks not even listed among the top 3 lotto team fits for Toppin. BR clearly does not get follow @NBASupes. 

I think Toppin is going to be one the better offensive bigs in this draft. Offensively I see him as #2 behind Wiseman. I think that speaks just as much to the weakness of this class as it does to Toppin's talent. He will never be a stretch four or five jacking up 4 - 6 threes a game. Furthermore, he is pretty much useless defensively and that is against lower level college players.

Anyone that follows the Hawks knows our two biggest weaknesses. 3 Point shooting and defense. The bigs in this class are not known to be stretch fours or fives. Some are thought to be good defenders.

A few of the guards in this draft are seen as two way players. If we don't get Wiseman or Edwards, I think its going to come down to one of the guards who can shoot and/or defend, or a utility wing or big who can defend. If Schlenk does take Toppin, I am not going to complain. I do see him as a good offensive big; but he is never going to help us defensively.

BPA all day; but that could be a starting caliber player and not a star in this class.

[warcore]

One thing to consider as far as trading John for a top 5 pick in this years class:

Allows 2 max FA slots for next summer instead of 1. 

And for the record -  I'm a huge John fan and hope we keep him. Just tossing that out there in case people haven't thought about that. 

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, bird_dirt said:

Hawks not even listed among the top 3 lotto team fits for Toppin. Bleacher Report 

Thanks. You should now continue to trust everything Hawks with BR. 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2886883-ranking-nbas-top-15-point-guards-this-season

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2890076-re-drafting-the-2017-nba-draft-class

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2802657-luka-doncic-and-trae-young-intriguing-rookie-pgs-with-different-approaches

[Buzzard]

6 hours ago, warcore said:

One thing to consider as far as trading John for a top 5 pick in this years class:

Allows 2 max FA slots for next summer instead of 1. 

And for the record -  I'm a huge John fan and hope we keep him. Just tossing that out there in case people haven't thought about that. 

One time in the past 30 - 40 years a max free agent wanted to come here; and JJ was not a superstar. If we ever start making regular appearances in the ECF and Finals, this perception may change. For now, we need to draft our max players.

[NBASupes]

9 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I think Toppin is going to be one the better offensive bigs in this draft. Offensively I see him as #2 behind Wiseman. I think that speaks just as much to the weakness of this class as it does to Toppin's talent. He will never be a stretch four or five jacking up 4 - 6 threes a game. Furthermore, he is pretty much useless defensively and that is against lower level college players.

Anyone that follows the Hawks knows our two biggest weaknesses. 3 Point shooting and defense. The bigs in this class are not known to be stretch fours or fives. Some are thought to be good defenders.

A few of the guards in this draft are seen as two way players. If we don't get Wiseman or Edwards, I think its going to come down to one of the guards who can shoot and/or defend, or a utility wing or big who can defend. If Schlenk does take Toppin, I am not going to complain. I do see him as a good offensive big; but he is never going to help us defensively.

BPA all day; but that could be a starting caliber player and not a star in this class.

It's pretty damn idiotic to see him #2 offensively in this class in general as of right now especially behind Wiseman of all people. The Obi slander on this site is beyond garbage.

Comparing a f***ing 5.5 on offense to an offensive 8.5 right now is absolutely ridiculous. I don't even know how anyone can come to that conclusion in a million years. 

Let's look at the last 8.5 that's entered the draft out of college.

Luka

Steph Curry

Harden

Griffin 

Durant

Melo

Morant

Hield

Let's just look at last year at the 5.5 offensive prospects

Jaxson Hayes

Goga

Romeo Langford

Jordan Poole

 

None of these guys set the world on fire offensively as rookies. Even if you want to swing high end with the physical tools, you looking at Mitchell Robinson. You starting to remind me of Diesel. Don't start to remind me of Diesel. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by NBASupes

[Gray Mule]

Yep,  We are a long ways from anywhere.

We would like to know our draft position - - But we don't.

We would like to know when the free agents will be available to sign - - But we don't.

If we knew Who might be available in a trade, we could guess about our interest - - but we don't.

Pandemic has messed up everything.  NBA is scheduled a re-start of the season - - but we weren't invited to be any part of it.  Can't even be there to watch.  Watch on TV or do without seeing.  Guess our brain part of the Hawks will tape the TV coverage and watch, over and over, to see who does what so they will have a better idea about what is what when we finally do hit the draft, trade deadline and free agency.

Yep.  Our season is over.  But, here we hang.  In limbo.  

[JayBirdHawk]

8 hours ago, warcore said:

One thing to consider as far as trading John for a top 5 pick in this years class:

Allows 2 max FA slots for next summer instead of 1. 

And for the record -  I'm a huge John fan and hope we keep him. Just tossing that out there in case people haven't thought about that. 

Assuming 'old' projected cap of $126 million, John's caphold for next season is $12 (if he is not extended this season), Dedmon's $13 million is guaranteed for only $1... so we'd still have space for 2 max contracts which is really a pipe dream for the Hawks signing not 1 but 2 max FAs. So, no it should not be a consideration for trading him for another pick in a weak draft.

Hawks have to show that they are at least playoff worthy to sign a 'Top' max  FA - drafting 2 players in this draft doesn't get us there.

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Assuming 'old' projected cap of $126 million, John's caphold for next season is $12 (if he is not extended this season), Dedmon's $13 million is guaranteed for only $1... so we'd still have space for 2 max contracts which is really a pipe dream for the Hawks signing not 1 but 2 max FAs. So, no it should not be a consideration for trading him for another pick in a weak draft.

Hawks have to show that they are at least playoff worthy to sign a 'Top' max  FA - drafting 2 players in this draft doesn't get us there.

We have won 73 games over the last three seasons. Who in their right mind is going to come here thinking they are the one piece needed to make us a contender?

No one. Stay the course; see how a full roster and better bench does.

[kg01]

Even if Toppin matches Collins' production (not likely, let's be honest here Supes), he won't do it in year 1.  Maybe not even in year 2.  And, even if he does, he's a significantly worse defensive player.  Significantly worse, same age (basically, and yes that matters).

So that basically means we're wasting another year.  Probably wasting 2 years getting him up to where Collins is right now.

Why?  Even if he turns into Stoudamire, and not Derrick Williams/Thomas Robinson, what are we as a team by then?

If I'm Trae, my eyes start wandering the second you trade Collins for a start-over rookie.

See, I get all the analytics and nimbers.  What you're ignoring is (1) the reality of the situation we're in and (2) that these dudes aren't robots.  You will never, NEVER, be able to quantify which guys show up to work, which guys are just happy to have 'made it', which guys get caught up in the life, etc., etc., etc.

I respect the work that you do.  I just think you have a blindspot in that regard.

[Thomas]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

If I'm Trae, my eyes start wandering the second you trade Collins for a start-over rookie.

A legitimate and scary thought. They and Cam are our viewing power to boot right now. Not saying I would not draft Toppin but still would hope JC is still here and starting if we do.

[capstone21]

Personally I would trade something like JC/pick for JJJ/their first

That really adds to our D with Clint and JJJ and also very solid three point shooting.  With JJJ not being a great rebounder is offset by Clint's arrival.   

The extra part of the pick is because Memphis has to spend to resign JC.  He would be a nice fit next to Ja Morant and that team already has solid D.