Hawks after Lonzo?

[AHF]

Sorry if this was already covered elsewhere in the thread:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/lonzo-ball-seeking-20-million-044318709.html

Quote

he Pelicans’ willingness to discuss Lonzo has everything to do with his own market. That’s a common thread here: It’s not that the team doesn’t like the player, but it may not like him at the price that is likely forthcoming in free agency. To that end, one source who has discussed the Lonzo dynamics with New Orleans said the 23-year-old guard is hoping to make approximately $20 million annually on his next deal (he’s a restricted free agent this offseason).

 

[Spud2nique]

45 minutes ago, thecampster said:

You know, you say things then get me thinking.

I try.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Spud2nique

[JayBirdHawk]

33 minutes ago, AHF said:

Sorry if this was already covered elsewhere in the thread:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/lonzo-ball-seeking-20-million-044318709.html

 

sounds like most of the restricted FAs - we like the player but not at that price Lonzo, JC, Markkenan, etc

[AHF]

19 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

sounds like most of the restricted FAs - we like the player but not at that price Lonzo, JC, Markkenan, etc

I think Lonzo is setting himself up for disappointment but I'd sure rather pay JC 27M than Lonzo 20M.

[Atlantaholic]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

I think Lonzo is setting himself up for disappointment but I'd sure rather pay JC 27M than Lonzo 20M.

Most def. Lonzo should be at around 14, maybe 17 tops. 

[RandomFan]

Lonzo is better than Bogie, who already is getting $18m per on what people think is a good deal.

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, RandomFan said:

Lonzo is better than Bogie, who already is getting $18m per on what people think is a good deal.

We are overpaying Bogi and Gallo, but that's how it goes.

[RandomFan]

Was a good article in BB News about Lonzo recently. I'm not pushing to trade for him, that's up to Travis to decide if it's a good idea or not, and I would imagine it's not something we'll do; but it seems a lot of people don't understand what Lonzo actually would do for us IF we added him. He would be a 6'6" shooting guard here, that could potentially play some backup PG minutes. 

One more thing, Magic Johnson had this to say today about Lonzo: 

Magic Johnson: “I’m going to tell you this: there’s no guard in this league. point guard, whose basketball IQ is higher than Lonzo Ball. The IQ of Lonzo Ball is off the charts.”

Gonna copy+pasta most of the article, but not all. 

https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/nba-trade-deadline-rumors-where-does-lonzo-ball-go-from-here-memphis-grizzlies-miami-heat-new-york-knicks

WHO IS LONZO BALL?

We know what Lonzo brings on the defensive end. He’s able to defend 1-through-3 and can wreak havoc on the weak side of actions due to his feel and length. Offensively, there seems to be a split in thinking.

“Lonzo’s always been a playmaker,” LaVar said during the interview. “Why are you trying to change him into a defensive specialist that stays in the corner and shoots threes? And you’re trying to change Zion [Williamson] and Brandon Ingram who, all through their careers, have never been playmakers. [They’ve always been] scorers! Now you want to put the ball in their hands and be playmakers?” 

The frustration makes sense on the surface. Lonzo was one of the most electrifying college guards in recent memory, flipping full-court darts, tossing lobs and making advanced reads against shifting defenses. His play style drew comparisons to Jason Kidd, though Kidd himself pushed back against those. 

It’s... more than fair to say that Ball isn’t on a Hall-of-Fame trajectory right now. And there is a reason Lonzo has shifted to more of an off-ball role during his NBA career, and especially in New Orleans.

In order to earn primary initiator reps, you have to bend defenses in some way. You can stress defenses with the threat of deep pull-ups -- think Steph Curry, Damian Lillard, Trae Young. You can stress defenses with constant rim pressure -- think Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Russell Westbrook, De’Aaron Fox. The best players in the sport can do both, but you need at least one of those skills to warrant a lead role. 

Lonzo hasn’t done that to this point of his career. He’s averaging 5.8 drives per 36 minutes, according to NBA.com’s tracking data, down from his 6.5 average attempts in the same category last season. He’s never converted higher than 37.5% of his field goal attempts on drives in a season, which is problematic for obvious reasons.

The threat of the pull-up isn’t there yet. Though his percentages have risen over the past couple of seasons -- Lonzo ranks in the 65th percentile in dribble jumpers this season, per Synergy -- teams still largely guard him the same way, ducking under picks and daring him to shoot. It’s a positive that he’s gotten better at knocking those shots down, but defenses are dictating that shot for him, not the other way around.

Compare that to the growth of his off-ball shooting -- he’s drilled 38% of his threes on nearly seven attempts over the past two seasons -- and it’s easy to see why a secondary role makes sense for him. When you have rim threats like Zion and Ingram forcing rotations, Lonzo is able to feast on easier catch-and-shoot looks or “one-more” passes.

At this point, Lonzo is more of a play connector or finisher (on the perimeter) than he is an initiator. That makes him a great fit alongside the Pelicans’ franchise pillars, but it’s understandable for them to be a bit squeamish about paying him north of $20 million per year. Any team looking to pry Lonzo out of New Orleans will need to be willing to shell out that kind of dough, but also have a true primary guy on the roster to fully maximize what Lonzo can do.

WHO COULD USE HIM?

Per O’Connor’s report, the Chicago Bulls and Atlanta Hawks have sent in offers. Both teams have a dynamic lead guard (Zach LaVine, Trae Young) that Lonzo could play off of. There are other teams that could, or at least should, toss their hats into the ring too.

The Memphis Grizzlies have the picks and young players needed to make a real run at Lonzo, though they’d have to think pretty hard about the contract this offseason. Still, it’s fun to imagine what a Ja Morant-Lonzo backcourt would look like. Something like De’Anthony Melton, Gorgui Dieng (who is available, per O’Connor), and the 2021 first-round pick they received from Utah could be a package worth building on in order to land Lonzo and JJ Redick for a playoff push.

The Miami Heat have been linked to guards all year long. 

It’s clear the Heat want to add to their guard room to complement the Jimmy Butler-Bam Adebayo duo. Why not aim for Lonzo, someone who can shoot, make quick decisions and give them more “oomph” at the point of attack defensively? 

[Spud2nique]

Disagree with Magic.. point guards with IQ’s higher than Lonzo:

Trae Young

Chris Paul

Luka Doncic 

Rajon Rondo

Lamelo Ball

 

 

[Peoriabird]

36 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Was a good article in BB News about Lonzo recently. I'm not pushing to trade for him, that's up to Travis to decide if it's a good idea or not, and I would imagine it's not something we'll do; but it seems a lot of people don't understand what Lonzo actually would do for us IF we added him. He would be a 6'6" shooting guard here, that could potentially play some backup PG minutes. 

One more thing, Magic Johnson had this to say today about Lonzo: 

Magic Johnson: “I’m going to tell you this: there’s no guard in this league. point guard, whose basketball IQ is higher than Lonzo Ball. The IQ of Lonzo Ball is off the charts.”

Gonna copy+pasta most of the article, but not all. 

https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/nba-trade-deadline-rumors-where-does-lonzo-ball-go-from-here-memphis-grizzlies-miami-heat-new-york-knicks

WHO IS LONZO BALL?

We know what Lonzo brings on the defensive end. He’s able to defend 1-through-3 and can wreak havoc on the weak side of actions due to his feel and length. Offensively, there seems to be a split in thinking.

“Lonzo’s always been a playmaker,” LaVar said during the interview. “Why are you trying to change him into a defensive specialist that stays in the corner and shoots threes? And you’re trying to change Zion [Williamson] and Brandon Ingram who, all through their careers, have never been playmakers. [They’ve always been] scorers! Now you want to put the ball in their hands and be playmakers?” 

The frustration makes sense on the surface. Lonzo was one of the most electrifying college guards in recent memory, flipping full-court darts, tossing lobs and making advanced reads against shifting defenses. His play style drew comparisons to Jason Kidd, though Kidd himself pushed back against those. 

It’s... more than fair to say that Ball isn’t on a Hall-of-Fame trajectory right now. And there is a reason Lonzo has shifted to more of an off-ball role during his NBA career, and especially in New Orleans.

In order to earn primary initiator reps, you have to bend defenses in some way. You can stress defenses with the threat of deep pull-ups -- think Steph Curry, Damian Lillard, Trae Young. You can stress defenses with constant rim pressure -- think Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Russell Westbrook, De’Aaron Fox. The best players in the sport can do both, but you need at least one of those skills to warrant a lead role. 

Lonzo hasn’t done that to this point of his career. He’s averaging 5.8 drives per 36 minutes, according to NBA.com’s tracking data, down from his 6.5 average attempts in the same category last season. He’s never converted higher than 37.5% of his field goal attempts on drives in a season, which is problematic for obvious reasons.

The threat of the pull-up isn’t there yet. Though his percentages have risen over the past couple of seasons -- Lonzo ranks in the 65th percentile in dribble jumpers this season, per Synergy -- teams still largely guard him the same way, ducking under picks and daring him to shoot. It’s a positive that he’s gotten better at knocking those shots down, but defenses are dictating that shot for him, not the other way around.

Compare that to the growth of his off-ball shooting -- he’s drilled 38% of his threes on nearly seven attempts over the past two seasons -- and it’s easy to see why a secondary role makes sense for him. When you have rim threats like Zion and Ingram forcing rotations, Lonzo is able to feast on easier catch-and-shoot looks or “one-more” passes.

At this point, Lonzo is more of a play connector or finisher (on the perimeter) than he is an initiator. That makes him a great fit alongside the Pelicans’ franchise pillars, but it’s understandable for them to be a bit squeamish about paying him north of $20 million per year. Any team looking to pry Lonzo out of New Orleans will need to be willing to shell out that kind of dough, but also have a true primary guy on the roster to fully maximize what Lonzo can do.

WHO COULD USE HIM?

Per O’Connor’s report, the Chicago Bulls and Atlanta Hawks have sent in offers. Both teams have a dynamic lead guard (Zach LaVine, Trae Young) that Lonzo could play off of. There are other teams that could, or at least should, toss their hats into the ring too.

The Memphis Grizzlies have the picks and young players needed to make a real run at Lonzo, though they’d have to think pretty hard about the contract this offseason. Still, it’s fun to imagine what a Ja Morant-Lonzo backcourt would look like. Something like De’Anthony Melton, Gorgui Dieng (who is available, per O’Connor), and the 2021 first-round pick they received from Utah could be a package worth building on in order to land Lonzo and JJ Redick for a playoff push.

The Miami Heat have been linked to guards all year long. 

It’s clear the Heat want to add to their guard room to complement the Jimmy Butler-Bam Adebayo duo. Why not aim for Lonzo, someone who can shoot, make quick decisions and give them more “oomph” at the point of attack defensively? 

If Lonzo is so great, why don't the Pelicans win?  I mean they have Zion and Ingram right?  The should at least win half their game with such a great point guard right?

[mrhonline]

Here's my take:

Quote

 

ATL out: Bogdan, Fernando, 2021 1st (top-10 protected)
ATL in: Ball, Looney, Melli

GSW out: Oubre, Looney
GSW in: Bogdan

NOP out: Ball, Melli
NOP in: Oubre, Fernando, ATL 2021 1st (top-10 protected)

***Gotta waive Goodwin to make this work.

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

If Lonzo is so great, why don't the Pelicans win?  I mean they have Zion and Ingram right?  The should at least win half their game with such a great point guard right?

Poor defense at the main scoring positions.  Lonzo and Josh Hart are by far the best 2 defenders in that rotation.

Ingram doesn't play much defense at all.  And he has the length to be a really good defender.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Poor defense at the main scoring positions.  Lonzo and Josh Hart are by far the best 2 defenders in that rotation.

Ingram doesn't play much defense at all.  And he has the length to be a really good defender.

Wasn't Ingram just signed to the max?

[ATLHawks3]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Poor defense at the main scoring positions.  Lonzo and Josh Hart are by far the best 2 defenders in that rotation.

Ingram doesn't play much defense at all.  And he has the length to be a really good defender.

Also because their lineup construction doesn't fit well with each other. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Wasn't Ingram just signed to the max?

Yep.  5 yrs / 158 mill

He got the 25% pop because he made the All-Star team

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, RandomFan said:

 

One more thing, Magic Johnson had this to say today about Lonzo: 

Magic Johnson: “I’m going to tell you this: there’s no guard in this league. point guard, whose basketball IQ is higher than Lonzo Ball. The IQ of Lonzo Ball is off the charts.”

Uuummm....wasn't Magic the one that drafted Lonzo, of course he thinks that. Lol

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Yep.  5 yrs / 158 mill

He got the 25% pop because he made the All-Star team

That's a lot for a player you claim can't play defense.

[bleachkit]

20 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

Here's my take:

 

So basically you're swapping Bogi for Ball and throwing in a 1st. It's worth considering. 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

So basically you're swapping Bogi for Ball and throwing in a 1st. It's worth considering. 

Nahh...Not for a rental

[Spud2nique]

I forgot Lonzo was 6’6” he plays like he’s 6’2” or so.