The Truth about Lloyd Pierce (Insider Thread)

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@NBASupes @thecampster  is Cam still slotted in as a SG?

The Hawks always seen Cam as a 2/3 with the potential to defend 4s with body development. 

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Our guy was Luka.

Ya he was my #1 I wouldn’t shut up about him on realgm for a year.  

[thecampster]

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@NBASupes @thecampster  is Cam still slotted in as a SG?

No clue but if I had to guess, Huerter is going to be used at the default backup at the 2 and Cam is going to become a 3 permanently (or bigger depending on what his body finishes at). Cam is listed at 218 but could easily be 235 in 2 years.

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by thecampster

[sturt]

59 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@NBASupes @thecampster  is Cam still slotted in as a SG?

 

Edit: To no one in particular...

I know it's a pipe dream... probably mine alone... but I've become increasingly infatuated with what Cam could add to this roster if he was anointed a Shaun Livingston kind of role.

In defense of its practicality, many probably are still unaware that he came to Duke having the reputation of an elite HS point guard, and both as a scorer and as a distributor. Were Schlenk to be able to add a KCP or similar asset to him and Huerter in that second unit, that's some strong coffee in that backcourt both offensively and defensively.

[kg01]

Wait ... did stu just reply to someone ...... outside of PM's ...

Is this real life?

ETA: I'm not gonna say I'm jealous but ... I'm not not jealous.

Edited June 4, 2021 by kg01

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Wait ... did stu just reply to someone ...... outside of PM's ...

Is this real life?

ETA: I'm not gonna say I'm jealous but ... I'm not not jealous.

To whom it may concern...

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Wait ... did stu just reply to someone ...... outside of PM's ...

Is this real life?

ETA: I'm not gonna say I'm jealous but ... I'm not not jealous.

I’m sorry I gotta ask.. what’s the avatar about? I thought it said dic with Dora the explorer  

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

To whom it may concern...

I’m sorry I gotta ask.. what’s the avatar about? I thought it said dic with Dora the explorer  

Round 1 was Tommy Boy in (dis)honor of Tom Thibodeaux.

Round 2 is Doc McStuffins in (dis)honor of Glenn Rivers.

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Glenn Rivers.

He screwed us once with the Celts, won’t happen again.

9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Round 1 was Tommy Boy in (dis)honor of Tom Thibodeaux.

Round 2 is Doc McStuffins in (dis)honor of Glenn Rivers.

What’s the next one, My Buddy (the doll) for Bud and the Bucks.

Or... Hmm what can we do with Nash..

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

in (dis)honor of Glenn Rivers.

Fighting words. Doc is..was our son! 

[terrell]

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

This is a thread about LP and his time in Atlanta and what was good and bad and the real truth. 

He's gifted.
Tremendous eye for talent
Work ethic
He understands the modern game exceptionally well
He knows what works and how it should be implemented.
Player development
Coaches planning prep

LP did a lot of good things that we still use to this day. The problem was his communication with players, using them to perform at their best and not to fit his system and most importantly, his gameday coaching was ass. He needed a lot more coaching development even though his talent level is tremendous.

Let's get real with LP

1. Why did LP get the job? He killed interviews, he fit what Atlanta wanted in a rebuilding coach and he wanted to implement a modern style to the game. 

2. Who that we signed or drafted that LP was critical for? Everyone we signed or traded for that impacted winning, LP signed off on. LP didn't sign off on guys like Parsons and Turner but those guys were from Travis long term vision. Draft wise, while Kevin was liked by LP, he was Travis's guy. The scouts loved Omari and Travis did too. LP didn't care for him as much. Trae would likely not be in Atlanta if it wasn't for LP. Tony liked Luka and even the hometown kid Sexton more, scouts liked JJJ, Travis and Peterson leaned JJJ but loved Trae as well. LP worked out JJJ, liked him but he fell in love with Trae. The org did as well. While TS will say that they was going to take Luka at 3, I never believed it. They knew Dallas and Memphis wanted him and used him as bait.

LP was critical for Hunter. Travis wanted Culver but LP worked out both and promised Hunter. LP didn't like Clarke who TS loved as did I. LP and TS loved Reddish but LP wanted both Reddish and Hunter while TS wanted to see him he could get Barrett who he liked more than either player. Our scouts also was in love with Hunter. LP felt he could develop into K. Leonard. Both felt Reddish had PG potential but LP felt Cam was ready to play right now, TS wasn't so sure nor were the scouts. Bruno was loved by all of them. Okongwu was more of TS call but LP liked his long term potential. Both wanted Haliburton the most. Hali turned down the Hawks and wanted to go elsewhere. 

3. The good? His rookie HC year was a massive hit. His creativity was the star of the league. A lot of teams were stealing his plays. He got a team that many felt was awful to overachieve and he coached well. This got him invited to the USA coaching staff where he was the star performer. This is where the coaching fraternity seen him as the future and the it guy. Everyone fell in love with him. His work ethic and knowledge was 2nd to none. He was honest and his player reports was a hype of legends. Coach K sung his praises as did Pop and Boehiem. He bexame that guy 

4. The bad? He was honest and he was a big part of the reason Trae was cut for Derrick White, not Pop. Trae actually played well at that camp. LP had extremely high expectations for Young. He didn't feel like Trae was playing winning Basketball and until he did, he was a hard ass on him. When he spoke to other coaches about Trae, almost everyone would agree, including our guys. I mean everyone. LP wasn't seen as a liar but he didn't go to bat for his guys. 

5. Trae wasn't one of the 40+ players invited to USA camp in 2020, why? LP told them he doesn't deserve it. Still hasn't changed his style of Basketball. This is a fact that LP did this. LP also told Trae I was told and it was the beginning of the end. Trae didn't mind the tough love but when LP did this, Trae felt LP crossed the line. 

6. Trae didn't make the ASG in Atlanta because LP told coaches not to. This is not true. LP didn't tell coaches not to vote for Trae but LP told the coaches about how Trae is like and they kinda was not impressed with him even if the stats were good. The narrative was there and it wasn't going nowhere. 

7. Collins hated LP. This is NOT true. Collins liked LP and wasn't super happy when he was fired. He just didn't like LP not listening to him when he said he could be a post up player and he didn't like LP unwillingness to listen to the players but he was the #2 option. He also didn't like that LP said, we don't run plays for JC. He felt that was disrespectful to the work he puts in. I would say JC was not the reason he got fired. JC role actually has gotten smaller since Nate took over. 

8. Reddish. While LP loved the idea of Reddish, he didn't really like him as a player. He didn't like the fact that Cam has all of the talent in the world and he was playing soft. He didn't like the fact that Cam's confidence would come and go. He didn't like that Cam wasn't a natural fit as a spot up guy which LP wanted Cam to develop into. He did love his defense and felt it was critical considering how Trae is. LP was hardest on Trae, Cam, and Hunter. While Cam had an amazing offseason in terms of production and earning his peers respect at runs he didn't come back overly better at anything while Hunter improved on everything LP asked him to improve on. Like Trae, Cam was targeted a lot by LP as he went to bat for them and wanted to see growth from them. A big part of the reason he was fired was due to Cam but Trae was probably the biggest. 3rd was the record and Atlanta had to make a change or Tony was going to do it himself. Within the org, many still Cam has the potential to be a superstar but they want to see him make a true commitment into improvement and not earning respect from peers because the NBA is a lot different than runs and you have to fit rules in the NBA. Defense is not enough for a player in 2021. 

9. Trae. While Trae is the biggest reason why LP is gone. When I say the league felt he was the reason and questioned him, including ALL of our guys, even Nate. This really hurt Trae's name and stock within the league. Everyone felt LP was spot on for Trae, even Nate and our coaches did. Truth is, LP system while modern didn't work for Trae. He can't play in a really fast pace. He plays too reckless and LP system was like Houston. He wanted his wings to be DPS but they had to stand in the corner and be reactors. Bogi struggled mightly at it. Cam sucked at it. Kevin was inconsistent at it like he is with everything. Nate changed the pace and ran actions for Bogi and what do you know. The Hawks are good. Honestly, Nate almost rurned down this job and he thought LP was doing an excellent job and he suffered due to injuries and a failure to finish games. Nate massively improved the squad but he's still running the LP system, but with Nate's style.

10. Did others hate LP? No. From what I was told, he was liked but Bogi wasn't a fan of his role with LP. LP used him to play like a PG. Nate just using him to his strength. Kevin loved LP. Hunter really loved LP. Clint really loved him too. It really was Trae and Cam which make sense, he went the hardest at those two the most, especially Cam. 

11.He wasn't' without flaws. His system did not fit his personnel so instead of listening to the players. He wanted them to fit his vision for them. This limited Trae, Cam, Bogi, and Gallo. Just by running actions and getting the ball to Bogi in quality position, he massively improved. Gallo massively improved. Cam had his best game v. Boston with Nate. This is what ended LP in my book. 

12. LP will have an uphill batter to get another job so soon. LP is extremely popular, even he game and money. He still beloved by the coaches so he will get a chance sooner than later. 

I'll never look at Travis the same, knowing he wanted JJJ over Trae, and RJ and Culver over Hunter........lol..

Edited June 4, 2021 by terrell

[h4wkfan]

Just now, terrell said:

I'll never look at Travis the same, knowing he wanted JJJ over Trae, and RJ over Hunter........lol..

Certainly would make me a little more nervous about the draft in future years lol. 

[Gray Mule]

27 minutes ago, sturt said:

I know it's a pipe dream... probably mine alone... but I've become increasingly infatuated with what Cam could add to this roster if he was anointed a Shaun Livingston kind of role. In defense of its practicality, many probably are still unaware that he came to Duke having the reputation of an elite HS point guard, and both as a scorer and as a distributor. Were Schlenk to be able to add a KCP or similar asset to him and Huerter in that second unit, that's some strong coffee in that backcourt both offensively and defensively.

 

[terrell]

1 minute ago, h4wkfan said:

Certainly would make me a little more nervous about the draft in future years lol. 

RJ/Culver over Hunter is a scary thought...And not liking Luka at all? Really? 

[kg01]

10 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

He screwed us once with the Celts, won’t happen again.

What’s the next one, My Buddy (the doll) for Bud and the Bucks.

Or... Hmm what can we do with Nash..

9 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Fighting words. Doc is..was our son! 

Emphasis on 'was', bro

Edited June 4, 2021 by kg01

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

I'll never look at Travis the same, knowing he wanted JJJ over Trae, and RJ and Culver over Hunter........lol..

Scouting is hard. KB thought JJJ was going to be star when he was Marvin Williams Jr to me. I thought Bagley would be a superstar, KB said, JC is better than Marvin. I was like BS. He was right. Marvin dominated JC at USA basketball but in the NBA, JC been superior.

[terrell]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Scouting is hard. KB thought JJJ was going to be star when he was Marvin Williams Jr to me. I thought Bagley would be a superstar, KB said, JC is better than Marvin. I was like BS. He was right. Marvin dominated JC at USA basketball but in the NBA, JC been superior.

Maybe we should hire LP as GM? lol

Edited June 4, 2021 by terrell

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Maybe we should hire LP as GM? lol

There is a lot more to GMing than drafting.

[Gray Mule]

Just now, Gray Mule said:

Well, that didn't work, did it!  No one actually remembers that Cam exists.  Out of sight, out of mind.  Squawk knows.  All others forget.  

 

[terrell]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

There is a lot more to GMing than drafting.

But thats a HUGE part of it..Especially for a rebuilding team..Who's idea was it to trade for Capela? Please dont say LP.. lol

Edited June 4, 2021 by terrell

[JeffS17]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Scouting is hard. KB thought JJJ was going to be star when he was Marvin Williams Jr to me. I thought Bagley would be a superstar, KB said, JC is better than Marvin. I was like BS. He was right. Marvin dominated JC at USA basketball but in the NBA, JC been superior.

I think another underappreciated aspect of drafting is the team situation and development.  There are so many factors that allow guys to flourish or hinder their development and every team situation is different.  It's possible JJJ gets to the Hawks and gets molded into an all-NBA player -- you just never know.  Getting into the right situation is important for players and drafting guys that buy into the team culture, the game plans, etc. is also super important.  It's one reason I think that Trae and Luka both landed in very good situations.  I just don't know if they'd both be doling as well as they are if they swapped teams.