The Truth about Lloyd Pierce (Insider Thread)

[macdaddy]

On 6/5/2021 at 9:26 AM, benhillboy said:

Damn 5 pages on this dude?  Y’all got time today lol.

I’m just happy as hell I don’t have to hear the same ole tired “they made shots, we didn’t” after every loss.  I hear enough of that simplistic dribble from Renee Montgomery.  An NBA game ain’t no damn casual shoot around.

First you disparage Trae and now Renee?   Everything ok?

[HawkItus]

9 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I don't know if you are joking but it's pretty clear Nate slowed the pace for the Hawks.   TNT saying otherwise probably only further proves the point they don't know what they are talking about half the time.

No, Sir they had facts and numbers.  Talked how our pace increased and Nate himself telling them he in the past slowed down the pace, but looked at our personnel and sped it up. 

[AHF]

On 6/5/2021 at 1:26 PM, REHawksFan said:

I always did like Rich Eisen and never found him to be the shock jock kind of host that SAS and Bayless are.  I'm as big a homer as there is for the Hawks, but trying to be objective for a second, I just don't see THAT much separation between Luka and Trae that would negate the opportunity to get another 1st round pick. 

Now I get that everyone will say, yeah but Cam hasn't amounted to anything.  But that's not the point.  Ignore Cam as a player for a second, is there really 1 lottery pick difference between Luka and Trae?  I don't see it.  

So yeah, as a Hawks fan, I'd do that trade over again 100 times out of 100, knowing what we know now.  

If we ignore what these guys have done and focus on the decision as of the date of the draft, I would not make this deal again.  I felt like Luka was a high floor, high ceiling guy who was going to be an impact player at worst while I felt like Trae was a boom or bust player with a very low floor and high ceiling depending on how effectively he could score in the NBA and even moreso whether he was going to be a selfish shot chucker or a play maker.  I hated the trade on draft day.

Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't reverse it.  I think we were lucky to get Cam the next season (I think Dallas could have ended up with a little better record and lower pick, perhaps even outside of the lottery if things had gone better) and obviously Trae quickly won me over and he has absolutely shown himself to be a very special player.  Now Cam's season this year was a disaster both in terms of his play when healthy (big regression from his Jan - Mar 2020 play) and his injury issues but I still am a fan of his upside going forward.  If he can come back and be 75% of the player that I think he can be, this trade will look really good for Atlanta.  It already looks good for both teams, imo.  The team that looks terrible around this is Sacramento (and frankly the only thing saving Memphis is that Ja Morant turned out to be a stud the next year because JJJ vs Trae is a no-brainer miss in isolation).  

[REHawksFan]

6 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

No, Sir they had facts and numbers.  Talked how our pace increased and Nate himself telling them he in the past slowed down the pace, but looked at our personnel and sped it up. 

Per NBA/com/stats.....

Hawks Pace from Game 1 though February 28 when LP was fired:  99.67 (16th in the NBA)

Hawks Pace from March 1 through end of season:  97.80 (22nd in NBA)

Hawks Pace in Playoffs:  97.00 (8th among PO teams)

 

Either the TNT dudes were wrong or you heard them wrong.  Nate definitely slowed the pace down in general.  Now, I know they did say that they got too slow in Game 1 and needed to play faster, but the data is clear that the overall PACE is slower under Nate than LP.  

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

No, Sir they had facts and numbers.  Talked how our pace increased and Nate himself telling them he in the past slowed down the pace, but looked at our personnel and sped it up. 

I'd be curious what they based it on.   if you run it on nba.com we dropped from 16th in pace to 23rd after Nate took over and Pace went down 2 points.  

Teams Advanced | Stats | NBA.com

sorry for the dup

[HawkItus]

1 minute ago, REHawksFan said:

Per NBA/com/stats.....

Hawks Pace from Game 1 though February 28 when LP was fired:  99.67 (16th in the NBA)

Hawks Pace from March 1 through end of season:  97.80 (22nd in NBA)

Hawks Pace in Playoffs:  97.00 (8th among PO teams)

 

Either the TNT dudes were wrong or you heard them wrong.  Nate definitely slowed the pace down in general.  Now, I know they did say that they got too slow in Game 1 and needed to play faster, but the data is clear that the overall PACE is slower under Nate than LP.  

I wish I had a transcript, but yeah they definitely said increased the pace.  And I think they had that number reversed.  I recorded the game, so maybe I will upload that portion.(probably won't though lol)

 

[REHawksFan]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

If we ignore what these guys have done and focus on the decision as of the date of the draft, I would not make this deal again.  I felt like Luka was a high floor, high ceiling guy who was going to be an impact player at worst while I felt like Trae was a boom or bust player with a very low floor and high ceiling depending on how effectively he could score in the NBA and even moreso whether he was going to be a selfish shot chucker or a play maker.  I hated the trade on draft day.

Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't reverse it.  I think we were lucky to get Cam the next season (I think Dallas could have ended up with a little better record and lower pick, perhaps even outside of the lottery if things had gone better) and obviously Trae quickly won me over and he has absolutely shown himself to be a very special player.  Now Cam's season this year was a disaster both in terms of his play when healthy (big regression from his Jan - Mar 2020 play) and his injury issues but I still am a fan of his upside going forward.  If he can come back and be 75% of the player that I think he can be, this trade will look really good for Atlanta.  It already looks good for both teams, imo.  The team that looks terrible around this is Sacramento (and frankly the only thing saving Memphis is that Ja Morant turned out to be a stud the next year because JJJ vs Trae is a no-brainer miss in isolation).  

I wasn't suggesting that you ignore what Luka and Trae have done.  I was saying ignoring Cam being the "other" lottery pick.  Knowing what we know about Luka and Trae, I'd do the trade again every day even without knowing that we'd get Cam.  I was just trying to point out that Cam is NOT the reason the trade still works for me.  

Edited June 9, 2021 by REHawksFan

[AHF]

24 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I wasn't suggesting that you ignore what Luka and Trae have done.  I was saying ignoring Cam being the "other" lottery pick.  Knowing what we know about Luka and Trae, I'd do the trade again every day even without knowing that we'd get Cam.  I was just trying to point out that Cam is NOT the reason the trade still works for me.  

It makes sense to me to look at it from the perspective of what we knew on draft day and what we know now.  I wouldn't have done it on draft day and if facing the same decision I wouldn't do it on a future draft day.  Knowing what we know now, I am glad we did it and wouldn't reverse it if I could because I'm sold on Trae (and sold on him being comparable to Luka) and still very high on the player that I think Cam can be.

[MarylandHawk]

On 6/5/2021 at 10:46 AM, marco102 said:

Since this has divulged into a Trae and Luka thread. I found this interesting.

 

Wow. 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, HawkItus said:

The TNT broadcast completely debunked your arguments on what Nate did with the pace.  Any thoughts?

I heard it but thought they got it wrong based on the articles I read previously to end the season. @REHawksFan provided the link and data.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, HawkItus said:

I wish I had a transcript, but yeah they definitely said increased the pace.  And I think they had that number reversed.  I recorded the game, so maybe I will upload that portion.(probably won't though lol)

 

He heard wrong. Nate wanted them to push up the the pace from a stance of catching Philly before they are set but once they got set. We ran our normal system. With LP, he just wanted us to play fast and by 10-14 seconds left, we took a shot. We use the entire shot clock under Nate

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

It makes sense to me to look at it from the perspective of what we knew on draft day and what we know now.  I wouldn't have done it on draft day and if facing the same decision I wouldn't do it on a future draft day.  Knowing what we know now, I am glad we did it and wouldn't reverse it if I could because I'm sold on Trae (and sold on him being comparable to Luka) and still very high on the player that I think Cam can be.

I look forward to the takes on that trade in 3 years when everyone is debating if Cam or Trae should win finals MVP

[JayBirdHawk]

46 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I look forward to the takes on that trade in 3 years when everyone is debating if Cam or Trae should win finals MVP

Love it!

[RandomFan]

5 hours ago, HawkItus said:

The TNT broadcast completely debunked your arguments on what Nate did with the pace.  Any thoughts?

Ahem.

The ATL beat writers were all left scratching their heads. 

[bird_dirt]

5 hours ago, macdaddy said:

TNT saying otherwise probably only further proves the point they don't know what they are talking about half the time.

Like Kenny saying you shouldn't expect Hunter to be able to keep up with defending 6ers because He iS a RoOkIE! 

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Like Kenny saying you shouldn't expect Hunter to be able to keep up with defending 6ers because He iS a RoOkIE! 

I missed that one.