Premium Member shakes Posted July 31, 2022 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 Should’ve never drafted him in the first place. a completely wasted pick. Literally no way a team in today’s NBA could ever roster two tiny PG’s on the same roster. Just a really stupid decision by Travis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted July 31, 2022 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, shakes said: Should’ve never drafted him in the first place. a completely wasted pick. Literally no way a team in today’s NBA could ever roster two tiny PG’s on the same roster. Just a really stupid decision by Travis. Uhm... Dude. he was the 48th pick in the draft. We needed a BU PG and he was the last PG picked in his draft class. He was ranked 8th among PGs in his class by one publication. NBA.com expected him to go in the 2nd half of the first round.. Sportingnews ranked him 8th overall... So you pissing and moaning about a guy that we picked with the 48th pick of the draft that many people felt would be a first rounder... on top of that, an Atlanta Native... Secondly... his height wasn't his problem.... what a dubious hot take... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Diesel said: Uhm... Dude. he was the 48th pick in the draft. We needed a BU PG and he was the last PG picked in his draft class. He was ranked 8th among PGs in his class by one publication. NBA.com expected him to go in the 2nd half of the first round.. Sportingnews ranked him 8th overall... So you pissing and moaning about a guy that we picked with the 48th pick of the draft that many people felt would be a first rounder... on top of that, an Atlanta Native... Secondly... his height wasn't his problem.... what a dubious hot take... Not a wrong take, if we're being honest. And it no longer matters that "everybody thought he'd be a 1st rndr". At this point, it's obvious he fell for reasons that likely ultimately came to fruition. This was a bad pick at the time made only worse because the gamble didn't pay off. I'm tired of us wasting late picks while other teams are picking 'dudes'. You tellin me .... and no this isn't a GT thing ... Jose Alvarado couldn't have helped us? If we weren't the 'sell 2nd rounders' team and actually went for it, could we not have traded up for a Herb Jones or a Jared Butler or a Miles McBride or a Dosumnu? Sorry, later round picks don't have to be throwaways which is how we treat them. And I'm also sick of us punting on SL. Another way they cheap out. No, it's not easy to juggle it all but that's the job man. If it was easy, they'd be paying minimum wage to the GM. Edited July 31, 2022 by kg01 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted July 31, 2022 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 22 minutes ago, kg01 said: Sorry, later round picks don't have to be throwaways which is how we treat them. And I'm also sick of us punting on SL. Another way they cheap out. .....it would be nice to 'luck' into a later pick or a couple of undrafteds like some other teams seem to do. Seems like we lack real scouting for the second rounders since they seem to just like selling them so no real effort and focus placed in this area. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member sturt Posted July 31, 2022 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 54 minutes ago, kg01 said: Not a wrong take, if we're being honest. And it no longer matters that "everybody thought he'd be a 1st rndr". At this point, it's obvious he fell for reasons that likely ultimately came to fruition. This was a bad pick at the time made only worse because the gamble didn't pay off. I'm tired of us wasting late picks while other teams are picking 'dudes'. You tellin me .... and no this isn't a GT thing ... Jose Alvarado couldn't have helped us? If we weren't the 'sell 2nd rounders' team and actually went for it, could we not have traded up for a Herb Jones or a Jared Butler or a Miles McBride or a Dosumnu? Sorry, later round picks don't have to be throwaways which is how we treat them. And I'm also sick of us punting on SL. Another way they cheap out. No, it's not easy to juggle it all but that's the job man. If it was easy, they'd be paying minimum wage to the GM. I'm hard to convince that the 2nd round isn't more like playing the lottery than it is playing the stock market. And to the Cooper selection in particular, the success rate of #48 pick 2nd rounders making an NBA team can't be very high, by definition. I'll grant you that there's always the possibility one can trade up and get someone that looks appealing, but I repeat... it's still more like playing the lottery than playing the stock market. Think what gets lost here, sometimes anyhow, is that there's really only so much you can gauge. These are mostly kids who only recently got the right to vote. They're all talented to some degree in some aspects of the game, but the key isn't what they've done, but what will they do (future tense). Specific to Cooper, he ended his G-League season on a high note. There had been every reason to believe he would, at minimum, be on another 2W contract, and had a sliver of a chance of making the 15-man. This post-SL decision almost certainly was a direct consequence of something SL-related... and as unsatisfying as his performance was, it seems a valid open question whether it was actually his performance on its own that resulted in the decision, or his performance plus some evidence of a lack of maturity. I don't fault anyone for finding it difficult to project maturation of 20 year-old kids... I had one at one time, and unfortunately in his case, it wasn't appreciably different from gauging him at 18 or 16. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 2nd round picks are tough to nail. I think the Pelicans kind of lucked into the Herb Jones and Alvarado (pickup). They aren’t known for it either just kinda fell into their laps. Lotta luck but better scouting needed from us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Spud2nique said: 2nd round picks are tough to nail. I think the Pelicans kind of lucked into the Herb Jones and Alvarado (pickup). They aren’t known for it either just kinda fell into their laps. Lotta luck but better scouting needed from us. True but you also make your own luck through work. To elaborate, you increase your odds of landing a diamond if you do a better job scouting, etc. Looking at our SL rosters ... IMHO ... illustrates we have a deficiency there. Or atleast shows we don't take it as serious as others. If we're gonna be a tax team ... and obviously we're gonna be a tax team ... hitting on 2nd rnders and UDFA's is of tantamount importance. So far, again JMHO, we're handlin it like greased pig wrasslin. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 36 minutes ago, kg01 said: So far, again JMHO, we're handlin it like greased pig wrasslin. Yup agreed, just kind of like it’s icing but we now see the Pels might be much better due to those diamonds like Herbie Hancock Jones and your boy who would run through a wall for the ball Alvarado. Ya, better scouting, hoping Landry or Travis is on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member sturt Posted July 31, 2022 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 4 hours ago, Spud2nique said: Herb Jones The record will show that some of us nailed that one. (I don't know who all are included in "us," but I do know there's at least one. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member sturt Posted July 31, 2022 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 3 hours ago, kg01 said: Looking at our SL rosters ... IMHO ... illustrates we have a deficiency there. Our 2nd rounders of the Schlenk era: 2017: Tyler Dorsey (Back in the league after Europe success; mid-season 2018 trade to MEM for Shelvin Mack) 2017: Alpha Kaba (Draft and stash guy, who has had some Europe success; of course, resurfaced again this Summer League) 2018: Omari Spellman (Initially gave Hawks reason to believe they acquired a keeper, but then was traded for Damian Jones + 2026 2nd round pick; hasn't been in the league since 2021) 2019: Bruno Fernando (Do we really need to rehearse a story that so many of us know well? Suffice it to say, hope springs eternal.) 2020: Skylar Mays (Still some sliver of a chance he could be brought back; one of the very few individual players who the head coach made a point to compliment in his 30 minute exit interview for the 2021-22 season) 2021: Sharife Cooper (Again, no explanation necessary) 2022: Tyrese Martin (Summer 2021 Sharife Cooper-like enthusiasm for this guy so far in Summer 2022) Honestly, I believe the opposite. No spectacular hits here, but no complete whiffs either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted July 31, 2022 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 41 minutes ago, sturt said: Our 2nd rounders of the Schlenk era: 2018: Omari Spellman (Initially gave Hawks reason to believe they acquired a keeper, but then was traded for Damian Jones + 2026 2nd round pick; hasn't been in the league since 2021) Spellman was a 1st round pick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member sturt Posted July 31, 2022 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 Just now, Peoriabird said: Spellman was a 1st round pick You're right. Nice catch. For some reason, I had him as the 1st pick of the 2nd round in my head. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted July 31, 2022 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 27 minutes ago, sturt said: You're right. Nice catch. For some reason, I had him as the 1st pick of the 2nd round in my head. That's the year Schlenk passed on Mitchell Robinson who was the 3rd or 4th pick in the 2nd round by trading the 2nd pick in the 2nd round away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted July 31, 2022 Moderators Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 The hit rate around the 48th pick is abysmal so I still think Cooper was a nice pick and good gamble. If he had worked out we absolutely could have used another small point guard off the bench. He represented very nice upside for that area of the draft. It didn’t work out but the process behind it made sense, imo. With respect to whether we are putting in the time scouting second picks properly, I would say none of us really know but the fact that I think we have clearly done our work on our first round picks suggests we would likely have done the same with the second rounders. Draft is part art and part science and the success rate falls off rapidly from the lottery to the end of the draft. If you find a rotation player in the second round you’ve done great. If you find a starter or star it is like winning the lottery. Hope the Hawks did that this year with Martin but will just have to wait and see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 hour ago, sturt said: Our 2nd rounders of the Schlenk era: 2017: Tyler Dorsey (Back in the league after Europe success; mid-season 2018 trade to MEM for Shelvin Mack) 2017: Alpha Kaba (Draft and stash guy, who has had some Europe success; of course, resurfaced again this Summer League) 2018: Omari Spellman (Initially gave Hawks reason to believe they acquired a keeper, but then was traded for Damian Jones + 2026 2nd round pick; hasn't been in the league since 2021) 2019: Bruno Fernando (Do we really need to rehearse a story that so many of us know well? Suffice it to say, hope springs eternal.) 2020: Skylar Mays (Still some sliver of a chance he could be brought back; one of the very few individual players who the head coach made a point to compliment in his 30 minute exit interview for the 2021-22 season) 2021: Sharife Cooper (Again, no explanation necessary) 2022: Tyrese Martin (Summer 2021 Sharife Cooper-like enthusiasm for this guy so far in Summer 2022) Honestly, I believe the opposite. No spectacular hits here, but no complete whiffs either. None of those players are contributing NBA players on any level, kind sir. So I have to vehemently oppose the notion that there are "no complete whiffs". Martin is an incomplete at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted July 31, 2022 Moderators Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 42 minutes ago, kg01 said: None of those players are contributing NBA players on any level, kind sir. So I have to vehemently oppose the notion that there are "no complete whiffs". Martin is an incomplete at this point. They are all misses other than Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member sturt Posted July 31, 2022 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 I'm fine with calling them all "misses," except I also need to understand what youse guys consider to be a median 2nd rounder outcome. Median in the statistician sense of the term. If you please, @kg01 and @AHF. (Careful how you answer... I do have some discretionary time coming up, and you know I'll be the nerd who goes back and digs out comparisons.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted July 31, 2022 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 8 hours ago, kg01 said: Not a wrong take, if we're being honest. And it no longer matters that "everybody thought he'd be a 1st rndr". At this point, it's obvious he fell for reasons that likely ultimately came to fruition. This was a bad pick at the time made only worse because the gamble didn't pay off. My problem is that it was laid at Travis' feet that it was a bad pick... Let me ask.. This year we got AJ at 16.. which is barely the 2nd half of the first round. This is where Cooper were expected to go... IF we had picked up AJ at pick #48.. would you be saying it's a "Bad Pick". At the time.. we felt we got a steal. Hindsight.. hindsight.. lots of hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted July 31, 2022 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 hour ago, kg01 said: None of those players are contributing NBA players on any level, kind sir. So I have to vehemently oppose the notion that there are "no complete whiffs". Martin is an incomplete at this point. Yeah.. but how many players selected after them are doing any kind of contributing on the NBA level? You have a lot of false arguments because there is no true remedy. You can't point out for me what we CLEARLY missed out on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 2nd rounders are hard to nail. Look at other team’s picks, nobody that great besides the Spurs for the most part and that was a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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