Our Biggest Rivals in the East?

[Sothron]

Bucks, Nets, Knicks, Sixers, Heat and I guess the old rivalry with Boston.

[bird_dirt]

I think it could be interesting to see Atl-Cha/Trae-Melo battles develop over the coming years if Charlotte become steady, serious competition. 

Division rivalry is the best, given the frequency of play. If Orlando were ever any good, they'd become rivals, but...

Heat probably second most interesting to me after Charlotte. 

[Alex]

Nobody.

There aren’t rivalries anymore.  The league is all buddy buddy now.  It’s a soft league with mostly soft players.

[sillent]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

Nobody.

There aren’t rivalries anymore.  The league is all buddy buddy now.  It’s a soft league with mostly soft players.

Buddy buddy or not it's a difference when they step in between the court. It's also easy to call players the league soft until you're out there.

I wouldn't necessarily call it soft there is just way more skilled players out there so you don't need goons (Anthony Masons, Vernon Maxwell, Charles Oakley and  etc as much to go fight on the court for you. 

Now it's more break your ankles, bust in your face, yam on you or ridiculous block skillset driven type of plays.

[NBASupes]

On 8/11/2021 at 8:28 AM, Diesel said:

I believe our Biggest rivals will be NY Knicks.   The reason i say this is because they are the center of the media world and last year, we broke a lot of hearts in NY... and let's not forget...

 

While we may have moved on and forgot about it, the Knicks have had all offseason to think about this moment... on their homecourt after Capela told them that we would beat them.   NY has reloaded, gotten better talent at the PG... and they will be back with the mission of trying to embarrass us the way we embarrassed them.   Don't be surprised if these games are physical.

Of course there's always the Heat but they are not checking for us... and there's Philly but until they figure out Simmons, they can't focus on us... and the Nets don't even think we exist.  NY is going to be that team that gets geared up to play us and will play every regular season game like it's game 7 of the finals. 

 

 

I keep saying this, the Knicks is our only real rival. We like rubbing shit in their face and they are heated. Boston ain't thinking about us and never have. 

[Spud2nique]

This upcoming season the Heat will be annoying once again.

[AHF]

10 hours ago, sillent said:

Buddy buddy or not it's a difference when they step in between the court. It's also easy to call players the league soft until you're out there.

I wouldn't necessarily call it soft there is just way more skilled players out there so you don't need goons (Anthony Masons, Vernon Maxwell, Charles Oakley and  etc as much to go fight on the court for you. 

Now it's more break your ankles, bust in your face, yam on you or ridiculous block skillset driven type of plays.

Anthony Mason would school the vast majority of bigs in the league today on a skills basis.  In his prime he was averaging around 10 rebounds and 5 assists per game to go with his scoring.  He wasn't just a thug.  (Neither was Oakley whose toughness was not the kind of fake "let's pretend we are about to fight" and more about moving you off your spots and sealing you off from a board.  He was also a capable passer in an era where PFs who weren't primary scorers didn't handle the ball very much.)

[sillent]

13 hours ago, AHF said:

Anthony Mason would school the vast majority of bigs in the league today on a skills basis.  In his prime he was averaging around 10 rebounds and 5 assists per game to go with his scoring.  He wasn't just a thug.  (Neither was Oakley whose toughness was not the kind of fake "let's pretend we are about to fight" and more about moving you off your spots and sealing you off from a board.  He was also a capable passer in an era where PFs who weren't primary scorers didn't handle the ball very much.)

If you're building a team of any time period in nba history and trying to create the most skilled team possible 9 times out of 10 you won't hear any of those names. 

 

[AHF]

6 hours ago, sillent said:

If you're building a team of any time period in nba history and trying to create the most skilled team possible 9 times out of 10 you won't hear any of those names. 

 

I have a feeling you never watched those guys.  Skills are more than dribbling between the legs.  Mason in particular could pretty much do it all.  
 

But if you are talking about building teams from all of NBA history from the all-time greats, then of course you aren’t going to hear many names beyond the level of Magic, Kareem, Duncan, LeBron, etc.

Oakley would have to diversify his game to fit in today’s NBA but I have zero doubts he could do it.  He shot a lot of long 2pt jumpers very effectively and >76% from the line so it isn’t much of a reach to see him shooting 3’s if he came up in this era.  
 

Mason was a point forward for a lot of his prime so I have no idea why he would be on any list of limited, unskilled players from his era.  He might be on the short list of guys who could be plucked from that era and successfully dropped into today’s game for the right team.  Shooting range would be something he and every other big man from that time would need to develop.

[sillent]

11 hours ago, AHF said:

I have a feeling you never watched those guys.  Skills are more than dribbling between the legs.  Mason in particular could pretty much do it all.  
 

But if you are talking about building teams from all of NBA history from the all-time greats, then of course you aren’t going to hear many names beyond the level of Magic, Kareem, Duncan, LeBron, etc.

Oakley would have to diversify his game to fit in today’s NBA but I have zero doubts he could do it.  He shot a lot of long 2pt jumpers very effectively and >76% from the line so it isn’t much of a reach to see him shooting 3’s if he came up in this era.  
 

Mason was a point forward for a lot of his prime so I have no idea why he would be on any list of limited, unskilled players from his era.  He might be on the short list of guys who could be plucked from that era and successfully dropped into today’s game for the right team.  Shooting range would be something he and every other big man from that time would need to develop.

I wouldn't even go hall of fame far they wouldn't even be near Allstars.

Mason and Vernon were decent but nothing to brag about.

I been an nba fan since Dominique so yeah I definitely watched those guys. They sucked to me then but were necessary. They wouldn't/would barely make it in the league now. It's more of a skills/finesse game.

They don't have it compared to most of the players now of days. More importantly they were 6'4 - 6'7 playing powerforward. They would be considered what the PJ Tucker/Dort (OKC) type players.

Ivan Johnson was way more skilled than them and would've been a star in their era if they were highly considered.

Edited August 16, 2021 by sillent

[Diesel]

22 hours ago, sillent said:

If you're building a team of any time period in nba history and trying to create the most skilled team possible 9 times out of 10 you won't hear any of those names. 

 

If you don't have those guys, I would hate to see your pretty team face those guys. 

The game always gets back to the game.  He who controls the ball wins.   Yeah, you can shoot threes. Yeah, you can make pretty passes.  Yeah, you can look good at all you do... but look how long it took Jason Kidd to get a ring.  How about Dirk.  They had to wait til the teams that controlled the ball got old. 

Why do you think Lebron has lost 6 titles...

 

[sillent]

33 minutes ago, Diesel said:

If you don't have those guys, I would hate to see your pretty team face those guys. 

The game always gets back to the game.  He who controls the ball wins.   Yeah, you can shoot threes. Yeah, you can make pretty passes.  Yeah, you can look good at all you do... but look how long it took Jason Kidd to get a ring.  How about Dirk.  They had to wait til the teams that controlled the ball got old. 

Why do you think Lebron has lost 6 titles...

 

So you think players like Vernon Maxwell, Charles Oakley and Anthony Mason being the best of them would make it in this league?

Their 1st foul would be flagrant. I doubt they'd be able to stay on the court. LeBron is skilled but he's no push over. 

The rules may be softer but the overall skill and players are better.

The game is the game and will always come back to the game. This game basketball though. People pay to see basketball not wrestling/boxing.

All it takes is a want to win and someone in the way to create a rivalry. Players/teams don't have to beat each other up to become rivals.

We are definitely rivals as far as the Knicks are concerned. We didn't beat them up we just finessed them with more skills.

Edited August 17, 2021 by sillent

[AHF]

12 hours ago, sillent said:

 

Ivan Johnson was way more skilled than them and would've been a star in their era if they were highly considered.

[JayBirdHawk]

12 hours ago, sillent said:

Ivan Johnson was way more skilled than them and would've been a star in their era if they were highly considered.

[Sothron]

14 hours ago, sillent said:

I wouldn't even go hall of fame far they wouldn't even be near Allstars.

Mason and Vernon were decent but nothing to brag about.

I been an nba fan since Dominique so yeah I definitely watched those guys. They sucked to me then but were necessary. They wouldn't/would barely make it in the league now. It's more of a skills/finesse game.

They don't have it compared to most of the players now of days. More importantly they were 6'4 - 6'7 playing powerforward. They would be considered what the PJ Tucker/Dort (OKC) type players.

Ivan Johnson was way more skilled than them and would've been a star in their era if they were highly considered.

 

I honestly don't even know how to respond to this. Are you joking around? You claim to have watched those guys play which I sincerely doubt and you think they lack any skills. Unreal.

Anthony Mason would destroy teams in today's games. Not from fighting. From being a skilled point forward that could score at three levels, rebound and play great defense. His unique size/strength/speed combo would drive players nuts trying to match up with him. Put a smaller guy on him and he'd take him apart in the post. Put a bigger guy on him and he's dribbling/passing/shooting all over him. Mason in Charlotte when he finally got to show his total game was a joy to watch.

Oakley was a great defender/rebounder and a consistent long two jump shooter. And he was very good to great in all three. I could see him extending his range another 4 feet or so to start nailing threes. He also set brutal picks and had a high basketball IQ.

Mad Max wasn't a thug. Yes, he had the one incident with a fan but that's it on the court. He was an average NBA starting shooting guard that could hit threes and was a clutch shooter and a good defender. There's a reason why he helped the Rockets win two titles. He could play in today's game.

I don't know why you picked those three guys as examples of former NBA players that couldn't play in today's game. The biggest thug back in the day was #40 for the Pistons and he also would kill in today's game with his all around game. Mahorn might not be able to play in today's game though. But you didn't list him. 

[JayBirdHawk]

On 8/10/2021 at 2:46 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

However, our biggest competition this year is the Bucks and Knicks (just cause we took them out in glorious fashion)

Well, with a Christmas Day game on tap - it's now a rivalry I guess, lol.

[Spud2nique]

To add to it a bit,

Mad Max was a dog. I’ll leave it at that. I don’t think even Jordan liked going up against him. Maybe he was a thug, he acted thuggish but he also acted confident and played like it. He’s underrated to me.

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

To add to it a bit,

Mad Max was a dog. I’ll leave it at that. I don’t think even Jordan liked going up against him. Maybe he was a thug, he acted thuggish but he also acted confident and played like it. He’s underrated to me.

His game would translate very naturally to this era but he would have to improve his 3pt% a lot.  (And given the way that number has improved over time you'd think that would be the likely outcome of him coming up in this era.)

[Sothron]

28 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

To add to it a bit,

Mad Max was a dog. I’ll leave it at that. I don’t think even Jordan liked going up against him. Maybe he was a thug, he acted thuggish but he also acted confident and played like it. He’s underrated to me.

People forget he got the nick name Mad Max from his clutch shooting. He had that Big Play gene that so few players have. He also played his ass off on defense. I have no idea where anyone would think he couldn't play in today's game. 

[sillent]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

Exactly... Where are the Anthony Mason's of the league now? It's a copycat league and players get chosen typically because they are similar or compared to other great players.

Ain't nobody looking for the next Anthony Mason, Vernon Maxwell or Charles Oakley. Why because players are way more skilled then them.

It is a laughable subject when y'all bring that up as if it has any substance. You can bring that to the best or even worse GM's and they will laugh you out the building. 

You don't hear Charles, Shaq, Kenny or nobody mentioning any of those names as if those players had skills. Back in those days they needed goon squads to protect the skilled players. Now it's too many skills to go around to afford those type of players on a team. I don't know what's so difficult to understand about that.