Jalen Johnson may be better than De'Andre Hunter and Cam Reddish

[bird_dirt]

Hey @NBASupes, what are “stocks” you keep bringing up? What does that mean? I’ve never heard it mentioned anywhere except in your comments. Is this a commonly used term I’m unaware of, or is it a new Supes vocabulary word?

[Hawkmoor]

DeAndre, like Bogi and Collins, is not a good fit with Trae.  Notice how Huerter's numbers got better suddenly in Sacremento. His attempts both inside and outside the 3 point line were higher and his points per game were higher.  Jalen is a better fit long term because he can run the point from the forward position. He FORCES the ball out of Trae's hands when he is bringing the ball up or setting up at the top of the key as a point forward.  Its a matter of fit and personnel. 

Hunter, Bogi and Collins would look better and put up bigger numbers with the right team or offense. Both Hunter and Collins are mid range, low post guys.  You give them the ball in rhythm in those areas and let them work quickly against mismatches.  Bogi is a catch and shoot guy. Again, he has to have a rhythm to be able to do that.  He looks good but would instantly put up 4 more points per game with a pure point guard beside him.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Hawkmoor

[swanlee]

I did think it was an over pay to sign Hunter. To many injuries and he does not have that decisive killer instinct that Jalen does and we are better with Jalen and Bey in rotation.

Hunter need to stay healthy andvuse his size better and be more deliberate on offense.

[AHF]

Kevin had a great year but he was an improved version rather than a complete breakout compared to his time in Atlanta.  His last two years:

12.1 points, 3.4 rebounds, 2.7 assists in Atlanta on .577% TS%

vs

15.2 points, 3.3 rebounds, 2.9 assists in Sacramento on .617% TS%

Those points are some from taking more shots but largely driven by better % from 3.  Will be interested to see if he sustains a .617% TS% over time.

Bogi, on the other hand, has been significantly better with Trae than without him.  Points per 36:

Sacramento:  18.8, 18.3, 15.2

Atlanta:  19.9, 18.5, 18.0

Bogi has also been WAY more efficient with Trae than he was in Sacramento.  De'Aaron Fox was the starting point with both Bogi and Kev.  .550% TS% in Sacramento with  Fox vs .588% TS% with Trae in Atlanta

I don't believe either JC or Hunter are big scorers or shot creators but both can be effective when fed in the right areas.  You can't feed JC or Hunter in the low post when CC is on the floor so there are potential personnel moves that could influence this but I'm interested to see how moving away from Nate's offense to Quin's offense next season impacts this as well.  I don't expect Quin to look to increase the amount of mid range shooting that Hawkmoor mentions above as desirable for Hunter and JC's scoring.

[REHawksFan]

39 minutes ago, AHF said:

Kevin had a great year but he was an improved version rather than a complete breakout compared to his time in Atlanta.  His last two years:

12.1 points, 3.4 rebounds, 2.7 assists in Atlanta on .577% TS%

vs

15.2 points, 3.3 rebounds, 2.9 assists in Sacramento on .617% TS%

Those points are some from taking more shots but largely driven by better % from 3.  Will be interested to see if he sustains a .617% TS% over time.

Bogi, on the other hand, has been significantly better with Trae than without him.  Points per 36:

Sacramento:  18.8, 18.3, 15.2

Atlanta:  19.9, 18.5, 18.0

Bogi has also been WAY more efficient with Trae than he was in Sacramento.  De'Aaron Fox was the starting point with both Bogi and Kev.  .550% TS% in Sacramento with  Fox vs .588% TS% with Trae in Atlanta

I don't believe either JC or Hunter are big scorers or shot creators but both can be effective when fed in the right areas.  You can't feed JC or Hunter in the low post when CC is on the floor so there are potential personnel moves that could influence this but I'm interested to see how moving away from Nate's offense to Quin's offense next season impacts this as well.  I don't expect Quin to look to increase the amount of mid range shooting that Hawkmoor mentions above as desirable for Hunter and JC's scoring.

Bogi has benefited from Trae, not been hindered by him.  I get that defensively he doesn't exactly fit well with Trae, but offensively, they fit very well together.  I know we aren't supposed to use the "A" word on here anymore, but sometimes it fits...

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

When you talk to dudes like @TheNorthCydeRises, they are delusional.

You know you’ve had @TheNorthCydeRiseslivin upstairs for a min now, don’t you think it’s time for him to pay rent? 
 

ps In a way I’m glad Trae ain’t turnin it on for the regular season. Otherwise he would be an MVP like Embiid in the regular season and when the playoffs came, flop and choke! 
 

If I’m not mistaken, Trae understands big games and games that count for something. Not discrediting the regular season but I’d much rather have a dude like Trae who lives for postseason play.

 

pps Luka at home.. HEY FAKEGM TEXASCHUck 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, Final_quest said:

OK

This season we are 3-1 without De'Andre Hunter post Saddiq Bey trade.  The games in December we lost we were starting AJ Griffin and JJ while playing the bench of Holiday bros and JARRETT CULVER.  If you exclude the travesty of this past December, our record WITHOUT Hunter the past few years is like 49-40.  

 

 

Damn . . I forgot about Jarrett Culver.  And even his "energy" was good at times. He just can't shoot to save his life.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Trae hate is real.  Even amongst us. 

 

The deflection is real too.

They can't provide tangible data to back up Dre.  So they shift to Trae.  We all know that Trae is sub par on defense.  But he's great in other areas.

All we're asking Dre to be, is great in ONE area.  Just one.

 

Dre . . here is your mission tomorrow.  Hold whomever you're guarding to their season average.  That's all we ask.  No 40+ point explosions from Tatum tomorrow.  Better yet, hold Tatum to 42% FG and 30% 3FG shooting.  That's the kind of defensive worth that we can see and put data to.

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

hey can't provide tangible data to back up Dre.  So they shift to Trae. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

DeAndre, like Bogi and Collins, is not a good fit with Trae.  Notice how Huerter's numbers got better suddenly in Sacremento. His attempts both inside and outside the 3 point line were higher and his points per game were higher.  Jalen is a better fit long term because he can run the point from the forward position. He FORCES the ball out of Trae's hands when he is bringing the ball up or setting up at the top of the key as a point forward.  Its a matter of fit and personnel. 

Hunter, Bogi and Collins would look better and put up bigger numbers with the right team or offense. Both Hunter and Collins are mid range, low post guys.  You give them the ball in rhythm in those areas and let them work quickly against mismatches.  Bogi is a catch and shoot guy. Again, he has to have a rhythm to be able to do that.  He looks good but would instantly put up 4 more points per game with a pure point guard beside him.

 

Collins jumped from a 10 and 7 guy, to a 20 and 10 guy, as soon as Trae became his PG.  Collins touches got taken away by the arrival of Capela.  We all know that.

Bogi has had MASSIVE hot shooting streaks playing alongside Trae Young, that he never had in Sacramento.  Bogi in the 2nd half of 2021 was shooting the 3 like an all-time great.  He's currently on one of those streaks again, shooting a blistering 45% from 3 after the All-Star break.  That's why I've been saying for the past 2 months that Bogi needs to be closing games.  If that means he's in for Dre ( especially if we need buckets to extend a lead ), so be it.

I bet none of you noticed what Quin did though.  Quin switched up who plays the most with the 2nd unit. Trae is now leading that group at the beginning of the 2nd and 4th quarters, because when Murray was doing it, the team was struggling for some reason.  @JayBirdHawk has been pointing that out for some time now.

 

But folks, don't be fooled here.  This is just a deflection attempt to shift this thread away from JJ possibly being better ( or a better fit ) than Hunter.  If you want to talk about Trae, start a separate thread so that we can break it down there.

That way, you guys can use Defensive Rating, Defensive RAPTOR, Defensive Box +/-, and all of those other defensive stats that have been used to down Trae for the past 4 years . . . without having to defend not using them to measure Dre's defense.

[macdaddy]

Thanks everyone for really going the extra mile to ensure Dre absolutely balls out in game one.  Let's do this!

[JayBirdHawk]

56 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

All we're asking Dre to be, is great in ONE area.  Just one.

I've been asking for 2 weeks for the ONE thing Dre is good at that we can expect EVERY game..... all I get is big wing, elite defensive versatility, Yada Yada Yada 

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

You have to watch the film to understand his impact

Still waiting on that film of the ONE game from Hunter this season where his IMPACT was exceptional.

[JayBirdHawk]

53 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Quin switched up who plays the most with the 2nd unit. Trae is now leading that group at the beginning of the 2nd and 4th quarters, because when Murray was doing it, the team was struggling for some reason.  @JayBirdHawk has been pointing that out for some time now.

)

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

DeAndre, like Bogi and Collins, is not a good fit with Trae.  Notice how Huerter's numbers got better suddenly in Sacremento. His attempts both inside and outside the 3 point line were higher and his points per game were higher.  Jalen is a better fit long term because he can run the point from the forward position. He FORCES the ball out of Trae's hands when he is bringing the ball up or setting up at the top of the key as a point forward.  Its a matter of fit and personnel. 

Hunter, Bogi and Collins would look better and put up bigger numbers with the right team or offense. Both Hunter and Collins are mid range, low post guys.  You give them the ball in rhythm in those areas and let them work quickly against mismatches.  Bogi is a catch and shoot guy. Again, he has to have a rhythm to be able to do that.  He looks good but would instantly put up 4 more points per game with a pure point guard beside him.

But you wanted Kyme. People don’t forget.

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

pure point

The purest in the NBA is Trae. A pure point guard will find a teammate open in any situation and be willing to give up the ball.

 

Trae is the purest in the league so your comments make absolute ZERO sense to me. 
 

It’s not like we have Russ Westbrook. This is Trae. HE WILL PASS THE BALL IF YOU ARE OPEN. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Ain't it funny, dudes like @TheNorthCydeRises would give massive props to Trae for 6 straight decent defensive games for Trae but when Dre is balling, no acknowledgment but Dre presumably struggles and here's his ass screaming trade. No one in media or Atlanta is. But Trae costs us at least 10 games a year, quiet as a church mice but the media isn't, there on his ass. Viciously

I think @TheNorthCydeRises smoke with Dre is he's mad about how Trae gets treated and he wants to pass it off to the next person like a school bully. Sucka ass shit

Do what you did to Dre, year to year, lmaooo. Of course you won't  

 

 

I personally want you guys to be able to rub it in my face that Dre not only had great impact in Game 1, but was the key reason why we won the game.

All I ask is basic, high level impact from a guy who we took as a top 5 pick, and was supposedly NBA ready ( which he was ).  Give us something were we all can say . . "Dre did the dang thing tonight!"

What I don't want to see, is Dre "coasting" through the game, with 11 pts and 2 rebounds.  He has to be impactful in some way, shape, or form.

 

[Diesel]

23 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I've been asking for 2 weeks for the ONE thing Dre is good at that we can expect EVERY game..... all I get is big wing, elite defensive versatility, Yada Yada Yada 

[Diesel]

Some of the made up terms that we have on this board right now...

• Elite Defensive Versatility. 
• Stock
• Middiest
• Big Wing
• Pure PG
• Demantalization  (Wasn't ours but Shaq's)

At some point, we will have a poll to see what can stick. 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, swanlee said:

I did think it was an over pay to sign Hunter. To many injuries and he does not have that decisive killer instinct that Jalen does and we are better with Jalen and Bey in rotation.

Hunter need to stay healthy andvuse his size better and be more deliberate on offense.

 

Use his size better and be more deliberate on offense?

Who does that sound like?

 

 

That's why I've always said that Dre should probably be playing the 2.  JJ didn't rebound and provide hustle plays either.  He was just an elite scorer at times who could also pass the rock.

Dre can't pass, but maybe he can be baby Joe Johnson, if he were able to be matched up against a bunch of 6 - 4 guys.

Hawks would have to play big to pull this off though

• Trae
• Hunter
• JJ
• Collins
• Capela

If we can get Hunter up to being a consistent 38%+ 3 point shooter, I would definitely throw this lineup at people at times.