This team is ass-backwards

[NBASupes]

It's hilarious seeing other fans who dont watch us answer what's wrong the Hawks. Its tragic how little the average fan watches with such a strong opinion 

[NBASupes]

Another potential ass backwards team?

 

I kinda miss LP for one reason. He didn't fully believe luck stats were luck. I never really agreed with that. I always felt luck is luck. That said, I remember when LP was here and Cam as well as Dre was getting unlucky with open 3s. Guys were shooting them at a higher clip than the norm by a much higher percentage. 

LP thing was the offense has to feel you. They have to feel you. What he meant by that was they have to feel you playing hard, movement either ball movement or player movement. They have to feel like they are going through a real workout, and not just a summer breeze at LA Fitness. Our guys had to implement and tough minded nature, if not on both sides of the ball, at least one side. Trae never made this logic easy and never has but he does make defenses feel on offense a lot especially this year. 

While we got lucky last year in the 2nd half, we also made people feel us with our ball movement and shooting as well as our execution. It wasn't no one man team shit we doing right now. We really was executing before Dre came back and things slowed down again in terms of ball movement. We gotta figure shit out. Memphis maybe getting really lucky but they might be forcing uncomfort causing overly discomfort even in normally comfortable situations. 

[NBASupes]

  

On 1/8/2022 at 12:18 PM, NBASupes said:

Metrics say the Hawks are a top 3 offense with a bottom 5 defense. I've watched nearly every game over the last 3 years as have most of us on here and I am here to say, we are a solid defensive team who's terrible offensively. Now the metrics read the way they do because there is one player with massive impact in both areas who's are superstar in Trae Young but I have to judge without him because with him, you get blinded. 

Our defense is solid. In fact, I would say actually good. We have Wright who's a good defensive PG. Cam and Hunter are very talented defenders and even if Cam has his issues impact wise on that end, it's hard to find guys as talented on that end as him. Bogi and Kevin are average defenders. Maybe not to be consider two-way players but most definitely can be considered guys who can play on both ends and hold their own. TLC is TLC, smart heady defender who knows where he needs to be and is aggressive on that end. Lou is awful and washed and shouldn't play. Coop is raw. Mays is decent on that end. 

Our bigs with the exception of Gallo are very good and some of the best in the NBA. JC one of the best defensive PFs in the NBA. He's no Green or close that but he's smart, active, communicates, is generally in good spots, and works hard on that end. Capela is a defensive star and our anchor Okongwu is our most talented defender on the roster. Has a chance to be really special on that end while being solid offensively. Dieng is solid defensively. JC has turned himself into a Paul Millsap level player. 

There is a reason why without Trae, we only are giving up 101ppg. 

Offensively, we are awful. Do we have talent? Yes but let's break it down. 

At PG, we are a heliocentric offense at our core, of course Wright has no heliocentric abilities. He cannot operate as the ball handler in this system. Not possible. He needs to be in a player movement system. That's his game. Coop is raw but talented, needs seasoning for now. 

The wings are talented, and the more talented, the further away from impact. Kev and Bogi are typical 4th, 5th, and 6th options offensively on teams around the league. Which is solid to be honest but no team is using any of these two as anything more. Both provide solid offense impact wise. Hunter and Reddish are the most talented offensive players on the roster outside of Trae but both impact wise are depressing. It's fair to say both have been below average offensive players but Cam has produced at a solid level overall on this end, just very inconsistent. Both need to bloom but they show flashes whereas Bogi and Kev give you consistent production at a solid level. 

The bigs are below average at this stage outside of JC on average. JC is our best player on the team outside of Trae and best offensive player as well outside of Trae. He's a very good offensive player. I will say, he can produce at a very good level offensively with or without Trae but with Trae, it's a lot easier for him. A LOT easier. Capela is an average offensive center. He does somethings at an elite level. Screening, offensive rebounding, rolling, activity, and playing with high BBIQ. On the other end, can't shoot, FT's are awful, passing is tragic, bad hands, post skills is tragic, not a reliable offensive option unless you got a PG who can spoon feed him. Okongwu is below average offensively but he's talented enough to be solid and maybe even good in the future. He doesn't have any offensive flaws but he doesn't do anything outside of finishing alleys at a high clip at this stage. The talent is there, just needs more seasoning. Dieng is also below average offensively. He does something very well but for the most part, he doesn't have any impact offensively on the game. Gallo is a shell of himself. He can still shoot and can still post up but he takes a lot of time with the ball in his hands and more times than not, nothing good happens. Just a wasted possession. 

When you look at this team, is this really a playoff team without Trae. No, but this is a good defensive team. Trae is so good on offense and so bad on team, he has a tendency to positively and negatively impact a team. I think it's clear, we have offensive issues. When teams sell out to take away Trae, this above is what you gotta take into account. We need to upgrade the team offensively. It's not good. We shouldn't let Trae's ATG offensive game delude us. 

That said, we gotta take into account how Trae plays. Wings don't get touches like that with Trae. That's been the case every year for Trae. Bogi damn near had to be added in to run the offense just to get him the min touches he needed which was 40-45 per36. Bigs get touches from Trae. Even Damian Jones and Bruno had their share of touches with Trae. We just need to think about these things. 

I don't like following data when my eyes are telling me a different story. My eyes are telling me this offense is trash and it's Trae that's otherworldly. My eyes are also saying Trae is 100% the issue on defense and I don't think you can blame our defenders. I actually think we got a good defensive squad, Trae aside. When he doesn't play and we are giving up 101ppg. That's notable. 

TS talks about changing expectations but he should have been realistic. The offense in the playoffs was garbage. This team is what that are but the data isn't accurate at all. It doesn't tell you what this team is. This team is unlike the Woody/LD era Hawks were the data said Atlanta is exactly what they are. This team is nothing like what the data reads. This team is ass-backwards. 

 

But but but Supes...

@TheNorthCydeRises

@AHF

@benhillboy

@Diesel

@JayBirdHawk

@Spud2nique

@marco102

@GameTime

@Peoriabird

@Plainview1981

@terrell

Edited April 25, 2022 by NBASupes

[macdaddy]

What's this about?  People been saying for months "it's our defense, we're a top 3 offense" while many of us pointed out that we were one of the worst 4th quarter offenses in the league.  I even saw a poster say we were a better offensive team this year than last year.  

I guess it takes a whole team scoring in single digits for folks to realize that we have one offensive weapon. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

What's this about?  People been saying for months "it's our defense, we're a top 3 offense" while many of us pointed out that we were one of the worst 4th quarter offenses in the league.  I even saw a poster say we were a better offensive team this year than last year.  

I guess it takes a whole team scoring in single digits for folks to realize that we have one offensive weapon. 

Its wild. We are a troll team. If you look at our stats, we are an inside based team who's balanced at scoring. But none of our inside guys can create for themselves, score in the post without a lob, or create for others. We are basically a perimeter team using our bigs to create looks for the perimeter players but if you sell out to our perimeter players, you basically force our bigs to beat and LMAO! 

We got 4th, 5th, and 6th offensive options our top perimeter option it's not like they are capable of shooting on double teams but even Miami defense would be hard for them to crack as Brooklyn sees with Kyrie and KD. You gotta have scorers at at least four positions in the modern NBA. You can't go all stars like Brooklyn and have like weaklings at two to three positions on one end at a time but you gotta have stars too. Contending is hard. 

Milwaukee has Holiday, Middleton and Giannis. 

Miami has mainly Butler but they have a lot of pieces that really help like Herro, Lowry, Bam, Tucker, etc. 

We just aren't good enough. It's not that anyone is overpaid because they aren't. Their roles are just too big for what we need. Clint and John do a lot but we need more. They aren't capable of more and their salary screams that too us. It's not like we overpaid based on the market.

[kg01]

I'm just pissed I didn't get a call-out when supes resurrected his weird a** thread. 

[hylndr11]

Is Miami paying way more than our guys ? If not and they are way better then yes our guys are overpaid.  I get it were assembled wrong but that's why it's fine to start.over.  

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, hylndr11 said:

Is Miami paying way more than our guys ? If not and they are way better then yes our guys are overpaid.  I get it were assembled wrong but that's why it's fine to start.over.  

Depends on what you mean by "start over" though.

I remember certain folks were pissed we moved on from the Horford/Milsap team to a total rebuild.  But it seemed obvious to me that group had topped out years prior and a scorched-earth rebuild was necessary.

This current group, imho, just needs a re-tooling.  Switch out a piece here/there.  To me, that's not starting over, so we may just differ on the definition of that concept.

[Peoriabird]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

  

 

But but but Supes...

@TheNorthCydeRises

@AHF

@benhillboy

@Diesel

@JayBirdHawk

@Spud2nique

@marco102

@GameTime

@Peoriabird

@Plainview1981

@terrell

You get no argument from me but I am worried about one thing...posters continue to try to contruct a team around one the team's biggest flaw which is pick and roll defense involving Trae Young. Poster continue to think that somehow with right pieces, Trae can resurrect the showtime Lakers which would then translate to trophies. This is flawed logic in my opinion.  The better approach should be to figure out a way to solve that defensive glitch if at all posible.

[hylndr11]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Depends on what you mean by "start over" though.

I remember certain folks were pissed we moved on from the Horford/Milsap team to a total rebuild.  But it seemed obvious to me that group had topped out years prior and a scorched-earth rebuild was necessary.

This current group, imho, just needs a re-tooling.  Switch out a piece here/there.  To me, that's not starting over, so we may just differ on the definition of that concept.

Not sure yet tbh, I was at the game last night, I saw Trae sitting on the bench with his knees wrapped with huge ice bags, if he's hurt then sit him, or not but don't get pissed when the entire country calls u out when no injury is admitted.  After this series Trae will take a major drop to his rep as a superstar player to build around is the problem we are gonna have not to mention we really don't have shit for leverage imo, I don't think our players are going to bring the players we want/need to be here.  

And if Trae is injured they need to say it even though that's 2 years in a row it's happened in playoffs it's a much better narrative than the alternative

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, hylndr11 said:

Not sure yet tbh, I was at the game last night, I saw Trae sitting on the bench with his knees wrapped with huge ice bags, if he's hurt then sit him, or not but don't get pissed when the entire country calls u out when no injury is admitted.  After this series Trae will take a major drop to his rep as a superstar player to build around is the problem we are gonna have not to mention we really don't have shit for leverage imo, I don't think our players are going to bring the players we want/need to be here.  

And if Trae is injured they need to say it even though that's 2 years in a row it's happened in playoffs it's a much better narrative than the alternative

He always has wraps on his knees! Plus he played 36 minutes even as he was hurting the team.

[macdaddy]

The team just needs tweaking.  Huerter keeps showing that he's not a starter.  You can't continue to make just a few shots for the whole game in the playoffs.  

Bogi was brought in to be that guy and when he's been able to we generally win.  

Upgrade the starting 2 spot, find some tough vets for the bench and we'll be fine. 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

The team just needs tweaking.  Huerter keeps showing that he's not a starter.  You can't continue to make just a few shots for the whole game in the playoffs.  

Bogi was brought in to be that guy and when he's been able to we generally win.  

Upgrade the starting 2 spot, find some tough vets for the bench and we'll be fine. 

Huerter is very curious to me...when you hear him speak, you would think he has a high bbiq. But when you see him play, not so much. He continues to take the most ill-advised shots in the half court and commit some of the dumbest fouls I've ever seen.

[Spud2nique]

59 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I'm just pissed I didn't get a call-out when supes resurrected his weird a** thread. 

I was wondering why you got a pass! 

[kg01]

13 minutes ago, hylndr11 said:

Not sure yet tbh, I was at the game last night, I saw Trae sitting on the bench with his knees wrapped with huge ice bags, if he's hurt then sit him, or not but don't get pissed when the entire country calls u out when no injury is admitted.  After this series Trae will take a major drop to his rep as a superstar player to build around is the problem we are gonna have not to mention we really don't have shit for leverage imo, I don't think our players are going to bring the players we want/need to be here.  

And if Trae is injured they need to say it even though that's 2 years in a row it's happened in playoffs it's a much better narrative than the alternative

I hear you, to a degree.  To me, last year's injury was a fluke so I wouldn't ascribe an injury this year to a 'narrative'.  Although I freely admit that's what the eggsperts would certainly do.

In the quoted post below, macd alludes to the problem which is that we're too dependent on Trae.  That's not to say, as @Peoriabird has been force-feeding, that Trae is the problem.  We just need to build around him.

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

The team just needs tweaking.  Huerter keeps showing that he's not a starter.  You can't continue to make just a few shots for the whole game in the playoffs.  

Bogi was brought in to be that guy and when he's been able to we generally win.  

Upgrade the starting 2 spot, find some tough vets for the bench and we'll be fine. 

I'm of the opinion that 'shots taken' is a much bigger indicator that 'shots made'.  I say that to say that I agree with where you end up on Heurter, just not how you got there.  Splittin' hairs, I know, but the fact that he's such a good shooter but doesn't shoot is maddening.

It's definitely a spot that needs to be upgraded.  Imagine if we'd been able to pick up McCollum this past deadline?  Whew, what a pickup that would've been.

And I want to be clear, although I agree with @Sothron that Bogd should've started, us forcing him into a bench role was making the best of a bad situation.  Heurter, due to his passive nature, with our current bench would not have worked as well as Bogd did.

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I was wondering why you got a pass! 

I don't call @NBASupes out enough to make his radar, I guess.

Does that mean I need to change that?

supes-shots comin'

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Splittin' hairs,

You seen it.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5ce3ac5c-5bdd-4203-924e-e0626a6ebb4c

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

You seen it.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5ce3ac5c-5bdd-4203-924e-e0626a6ebb4c

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

In the quoted post below, macd alludes to the problem which is that we're too dependent on Trae.  That's not to say, as @Peoriabird has been force-feeding, that Trae is the problem.  We just need to build around him.

He is a big part of the problem right now particularly on defense. This doesn't mean that he can't get better or the coaching staff can't figure out later how to fix his pick and roll defense. The rebounding problem is unrelated to Trae. That's coaching and personnel groupings.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, kg01 said:

I don't call @NBASupes out enough to make his radar, I guess.

Does that mean I need to change that?

supes-shots comin'

I think that was a purpose 1-3 post jinx verse jinx with a belly option on 2! 
 

OMAHAAAAAAA!!! OMAHAAAAAAAA!!!!!

 

SET… HIKE  

 

PS @kg01 I almost cried last night don’t tell anyone. Talking on the phone with my nephew last night and he says:

“Oh man, I saw a YouTube video on Trae and he was killin it he was letting 3’s fly one footed and hitting.

Me: oh nice ya he can do a lil bit.

Nephew: JUST KIDDING IT WAS CURRY  

Me: 

#attackofBILSandNEPHS #99prolems