Trae Young... The Unlikely MVP.....

[Diesel]

32 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Additionally there is a wild claim that Trae can’t play with wings and anyone who refutes that is too simple minded to understand why.  

Those who make those wild claims know nothing about Gravity. 

[Diesel]

33 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

When the supporting cast has stepped up the Hawks have played like contenders. That's a fact. Huerter is finally making open threes consistently and all of a sudden the Hawks are averaging 130 ppg the last five games. All we need is the guys to make shots off of the eternal double teams Trae draws and it's a wrap on that end of the floor.

Yep...

When Huerter and Bogi drain three pointers.. we win. 

Hunter has to find his game.   Last night was down right deplorable.   Somebody said Marvin Williams.... well if Hunter doesn't figure it out, he'd be just as bad as Marvin. 

[Atlantaholic]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Yep...

When Huerter and Bogi drain three pointers.. we win. 

Hunter has to find his game.   Last night was down right deplorable.   Somebody said Marvin Williams.... well if Hunter doesn't figure it out, he'd be just as bad as Marvin. 

He has yet to have a single season as good as Marvin's worst season my bro. He's got a ways to go to even be Marvin.

[macdaddy]

Lebron making all NBA this year due to 'legacy' tells you all you need to know about these stupid awards.    

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Lebron making all NBA this year due to 'legacy' tells you all you need to know about these stupid awards.    

Unfortunately... When Legacy Awards are given (HOF, GOAT)  the thing that always comes up is.. How many all NBA teams did he make?

When you have voters (press) who vote with their heart and not with the merits of a player... or better yet when there's no standard... Not only are you screwing Trae out of 30 Million dollars but you're also screwing him out of the HOF recognition that he is due...

 

[marco102]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Only to Hawks stans and Trae stans. Honestly, you can't play this bad on defense, your team vastly underperform expectations and get sole credit even if you had a much better individual season than last year. 

Ja team is 18-2 without him so he does get way too much benefit of doubt but he's so spectacular to watch when he's playing that he gets that love that Iverson used to get to a small degree. I honestly like his game in the RS more than Trae and I think Trae has had a better individual season. 

I am mixed on this. I been having doubts on Trae and all NBA for awhile and that's because his impact is insanely low for a RS player. 30 wins just isn't impressive although of late he's been on his 55 wins on offense per game and is just untouchable and unstoppable of late. 

His defense is the worst in the NBA and the worst I've ever seen. He's gonna have to be protected throughout his career on that end especially in the RS where his defense can wane and wane often. 

I get our frustration as he's been GOAT level at times offensively and special offensively for the most part. He still has a lot of luck that needed for his career to get the respect it deserves. 

It's up to Travis to build the right team around him. There is still enough voters who are waiting to see how the season ends before saying yes or no to Trae for all NBA. 

His defense isn't worst all time.  Ja's defense is just as terrible when you watch Memphis play, but he just gets a few more blocks and steals which bolster his defensive ratings a bit and they aren't much better than Trae's as is. 

Trae is way more than a 30 win player and I agree with everything else you said.   He currently has 34 wins with as bad as our supporting cast of characters have been around him.  

Even with his bad defense he's top 10 in most impact stats in the league. There is no excuse with leaving him off an ALL NBA team. 

When Trae was first drafted, we all had concerns about efficiency with a player his size.  In year 4, he literally may be the most efficient guard in the league with his shot diet and usage.

We have a generational player. Point! Blank! Period!

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by marco102

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Defensive metrics are trash and everybody knows it.  Folks just want to force feed a way to affix numbers to something that's truly not quantifiable and, instead of just admitting that fact, they all just put their heads in the sand and pretend they're real.

They are a team measure, nothing more.

I'll now get ready for the supes blowback ....

I understand this is a Hawk forum and I understand that we are extremely defensive of Trae with the national fans as I am. But i understand why many in the national media feel the way they do and i watch 95% of all of our games. 

I strongly believe Trae is the root of our defensive issues. Even diesel knows it. 

[kg01]

50 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The League respect Nate Tiny Archibald more.... I hear all this praise for Giannis and Embiid.. but Trae is breaking Historic records and getting no love. 

It's shameful.  Remember Westbrook was propelled to an MVP off doing something historic, despite his team being largely garbage.  Not saying Trae should be MVP but this accomplishment should be getting far more love.

Folks also claim they love guys who don't load manage.  No love for Young.  Stupid.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, marco102 said:

His defense isn't worst all time.  Ja's defense is just as terrible when you watch Memphis play, but he just gets a few more blocks and steals which bolster his defensive ratings a bit and they aren't much better than Trae's as is. 

Trae is way more than a 30 win player and I agree with everything else you said.   He currently has 34 wins with as bad as our supporting cast of characters have been around him.  

Even with his bad defense he's top 10 in most impact stats in the league. There is no excuse with leaving him off an ALL NBA team. 

When Trae was first drafted, we all had concerns about efficiency with a player his size.  In year 4, he literally may be the most efficient guard in the league with his shot diet and usage.

We have a generational player. Point! Blank! Period!

 

I watch Ja a lot. He's a superior team defender and he doesn't die on screens no where near the degree of Trae. Ja is a terrible on ball defender and been one for ages, arguably worse than Trae but other than that. It's a massive gap between Ja and Trae defensively in Ja's favor. 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I understand this is a Hawk forum and I understand that we are extremely defensive of Trae with the national fans as I am. But i understand why many in the national media feel the way they do and i watch 95% of all of our games. 

I strongly believe Trae is the root of our defensive issues. Even diesel knows it. 

Not every defense (see what I did there?) of Trae is some homer-ific nonsense.

Defensive metrics aren't worth the paper they're not written on.

Has nothing to do with Trae or any player other than Andre Drummond - the fact that, per defensive metrics(sic) love him is evidence enough that they're a sham.

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I watch Ja a lot. He's a superior team defender and he doesn't die on screens no where near the degree of Trae. Ja is a terrible on ball defender and been one for ages, arguably worse than Trae but other than that. It's a massive gap between Ja and Trae defensively in Ja's favor. 

It's not massive. Stahhp it, supes.

[marco102]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I watch Ja a lot. He's a superior team defender and he doesn't die on screens no where near the degree of Trae. Ja is a terrible on ball defender and been one for ages, arguably worse than Trae but other than that. It's a massive gap between Ja and Trae defensively in Ja's favor. 

I watch Memphis a lot too and I've seen the terrible defense Ja puts out there. 

Like I said Ja gets a few more steals and blocks and they are flashy.  

There isn't a massive gap between them even the defensive metrics says there isn't, if we want to rely on those.

D RAPTOR Trae is 244 and Ja is 203.  Most of that is probably Ja plays with a much better cast of defenders. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by marco102

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Not every defense (see what I did there?) of Trae is some homer-ific nonsense.

Defensive metrics aren't worth the paper they're not written on.

Has nothing to do with Trae or any player other than Andre Drummond - the fact that, per defensive metrics(sic) love him is evidence enough that they're a sham.

It's not massive. Stahhp it, supes.

Ya'll want it to be one way but most NBA fans agree with me. 

Ya'll the ones who can't push this point on RealGM and Reddit or anywhere with NBA fans but Supes is the problem right. I've seen three posters who took direct shots at me in this very thread and what did I do to them. Nothing. 

I understand the frustrating of feeling like Trae gets no respect. I believe he doesn't get enough respect and he is underrated. That said, he's not without massive flaws that impact him more so than others elite offensive players. 

I've accepted he is who he is. But you can't expect others to overlook it because you have decided to overlook them.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

LeBron shouldn't be all NBA this year but if he is, it's more due to legacy. 

Agreed.

[Spud2nique]

39 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Ja's defense is just as terrible when you watch Memphis play,

Fans sometimes confuse athleticism and hustle for actual results. Also as we know, Trae has gotten his hands on a ton of passes lately. He’s on the rise. If Stockton can do it, why not Trae? 

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Ya'll want it to be one way but most NBA fans agree with me. 

Ya'll the ones who can't push this point on RealGM and Reddit or anywhere with NBA fans but Supes is the problem right. I've seen three posters who took direct shots at me in this very thread and what did I do to them. Nothing. 

I understand the frustrating of feeling like Trae gets no respect. I believe he doesn't get enough respect and he is underrated. That said, he's not without massive flaws that impact him more so than others elite offensive players. 

I've accepted he is who he is. But you can't expect others to overlook it because you have decided to overlook them.

Most NBA fans are idiots who are just as biased against certain players are you're claiming we are in favor of ours.

No one here is saying Trae is without flaws.  I'm saying folks are choosing to highlight his flaw(s) in a way they choose not to do when speaking of other players.

I think it's fair to be a little pissed about that.

As for folks taking shots at you, may as well take it as a compliment.  They don't talk about you when you ain't worth it.

And I reserve the right to take shots at you. At least I'm clever about it. 

[Spud2nique]

33 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Folks also claim they love guys who don't load manage.  No love for Young.  Stupid.

Tough a$ nails.

- @JayBirdHawk

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

Fans sometimes confuse athleticism and hustle for actual results. Also as we know, Trae has gotten his hands on a ton of passes lately. He’s on the rise. If Stockton can do it, why not Trae? 

The guy scalabrine made this very point on air the other day.  Basically said, for example, Wes Matthews is a fake defense guy.  Always 'doing stuff', flailing away but not actually effecting guys' shots.

He highlighted exactly what you said, fake hustle "defense".  IOW, Bazemore'ing.

[NBASupes]

Just now, kg01 said:

Most NBA fans are idiots who are just as biased against certain players are you're claiming we are in favor of ours.

No one here is saying Trae is without flaws.  I'm saying folks are choosing to highlight his flaw(s) in a way they choose not to do when speaking of other players.

I think it's fair to be a little pissed about that.

As for folks taking shots at you, may as well take it as a compliment.  They don't talk about you when you ain't worth it.

And I reserve the right to take shots at you. At least I'm clever about it. 

They aren't as idiotic as you are making them out to be. Everyone who says Trae defense is awful is not a troll, hater, or idiot. 

[kg01]

Just now, NBASupes said:

They aren't as idiotic as you are making them out to be. Everyone who says Trae defense is awful is not a troll, hater, or idiot. 

Ones who discount literally everything he does because of it, yes they are biased and likely idiots.

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Ya'll want it to be one way but most NBA fans agree with me. 

Ya'll the ones who can't push this point on RealGM and Reddit or anywhere with NBA fans but Supes is the problem right. I've seen three posters who took direct shots at me in this very thread and what did I do to them. Nothing. 

I understand the frustrating of feeling like Trae gets no respect. I believe he doesn't get enough respect and he is underrated. That said, he's not without massive flaws that impact him more so than others elite offensive players. 

I've accepted he is who he is. But you can't expect others to overlook it because you have decided to overlook them.

I haven't taken a shot at you. I just want to make that clear.  Debating a point isn't taking a shot at some. 

When you say things like worst all time defense.  For sure the homers over at RealGM and Reddit will agree with you. When you say Trae is a 30 win player.  They sure as hell are going to agree with you because defense is the only thing they have to hang their hat on that's a negative about him.  30 win player they are going to agree with that too.  

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by a 30 win player which is why I said he already has 37 wins. 

Coming from you, I expect more nuance than hyperbole because I feel like you try to be objective. 

Again, I said I agreed with every thing else you said because to me that was sensible.