Trae Young... The Unlikely MVP.....

[Diesel]

I've been looking at this MVP talk.  It's normally the same guys:  Jokic, Gainis, Embiid....  I decided to look at this statistically...

Points Created Per 36 Minutes Leaders

Player	Points Scored	AST Points	Screen AST Points	All Points Created
Nikola Jokic	28.3	20.9	8.8	58.0
Giannis Antetokounmpo	31.5	18.0	5.4	54.9
Trae Young	28.9	24.6	0.4	53.9
Joel Embiid	31.8	11.6	9.0	52.4
Luka Doncic	26.0	22.8	0.2	49.0
LeBron James	28.6	16.7	2.5	47.7
Ja Morant	28.1	18.6	0.9	47.6
James Harden	22.3	23.8	1.0	47.1
Stephen Curry	26.8	16.0	3.2	46.0
Domantas Sabonis	19.6	13.0	13.2	45.8

 

Don't give him his respect...So Trae has to take it.  We've seen Morant's name float up to the call out for MVP.... HOW??

Then I came upon this thing called Gravity...  Scoring Gravity.

Gravity: An on-ball player’s ability to draw their defender to them and away from shooters. Calculated with a blend of offensive load stats and effeciency

The Ideal Player: A player that carries a heavy offensive load and scores efficiently. This typical star offensive player draws extra attention from help defenders and creates room for shooters.

I suggest that the only person that gets more attention than Trae is probably Steph Curry.  Maybe...

I had to look at his numbers...

Trae has done everything that we have asked.

He's shooting 38.5% from 3...

He's shooting damn near 52% from the midrange.. he's one of the best midrange players in the game. 

He's shooting 62% from inside.

His hero ball hits at a rate of 45%... over the last 15 games. 

Offensively, it should be hard to keep Trae out of the conversation. 

[macdaddy]

Exactly.   I don't have issue with Jokic and Giannis being up there but let's be honest, if Luka was putting up Trae's numbers even on a lottery team everyone would have him top 3 in MVP.   If Ja was even close to Trae's numbers people would lose their minds anointing him.  They already are for some reason.     

[Diesel]

38 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Exactly.   I don't have issue with Jokic and Giannis being up there but let's be honest, if Luka was putting up Trae's numbers even on a lottery team everyone would have him top 3 in MVP.   If Ja was even close to Trae's numbers people would lose their minds anointing him.  They already are for some reason.     

Trae don't get the respect that he is due.. not even here. By Most metrics, he is possibly the best offensive player in the league.   But he gets no respect.  

I watched last night that they started double teaming him before he crosses halfcourt.   Conventional wisdom says that's what it's going to take because he has so much offensive gravity that he requires that kind of attention or otherwise, he will produce a score. 

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Offensively, it should be hard to keep Trae out of the conversation. 

You forgot a key number in each player's analysis:

Jokic - 40 team wins

Giannis - 42 team wins

Trae - 33 team wins

Embiid - 41 team wins

Luka - 42 team wins

LeBron - 29 team wins

Ja - 47 team wins

James - 41 team wins

Steph - 46 team wins

 

Two of these don't belong with the others, except the Bron may be the 2nd greatest player of all time so he always gets a pass.  You are dead on, 100% right that Trae is the best offensive player in the NBA.  And THAT should be enough to get him consideration for the MVP. But unfortunately, the Hawks needed another dozen wins at this point in the season for him to be truly considered. 

[benhillboy]

I don’t think voters take advanced stats into account much (certainly not as much as I do) but they all know Trae is a horribly rated defender by any metric  while Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid obviously are enormous (in size and defensive impact).

But it is nothing short of miraculous that Trae is in this Top 5 class of offensive box seeing how the 4 guys above him are much older and have around an average of 80 pounds and/ or a full foot over him.  I think all these WS/48 are accurate except Kevin Love. 
 

I’d be that lone guy casting my first place vote for Jimmy lol.

Edited March 15, 2022 by benhillboy

[bleachkit]

He's a great player but I'm not sure he's easy to build around. Seems like finding the right pieces to go with him has been a challenge. 

[Diesel]

57 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

He's a great player but I'm not sure he's easy to build around. Seems like finding the right pieces to go with him has been a challenge. 

Interesting Narrative... It's just not true. 

If you have not noticed.. .Trae makes the players around him better.  He has the best "gravity" in this league.  Better than Ja, Better than Giannis, Better than Lebron....  The only person on his level or Luka and Joker.  And really Joker.   That being the case, it makes him a lot easier to build around.  He has extended the prime years of Clint.. and will make OO a star.  JC's contract is mostly based off of Trae's gravity because JC can't really create for himself.   The question mark has been the wings.  Trae needs SGs and SFs who can play steady defense, hit a three, and can slash.   We were hoping that Hunter would be that and the jury is still out.  We were hoping that Cam could be that but Cam is too much about Cam.  Kev  has given us that from time to time.  Bogi gives us the scoring.   However, we don't have the full package yet.   Just because we don't have the full package doesn't mean that he's hard to build around. 

He's just as easy to build around as Ja is.  The 3 and D guys are more rare now. 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

I don’t think voters take advanced stats into account much (certainly not as much as I do) but they all know Trae is a horribly rated defender by any metric  while Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid obviously are enormous (in size and defensive impact).

But it is nothing short of miraculous that Trae is in this Top 5 class of offensive box seeing how the 4 guys above him are much older and have around an average of 80 pounds and/ or a full foot over him.  I think all these WS/48 are accurate except Kevin Love. 
 

I’d be that lone guy casting my first place vote for Jimmy lol.

The win shares will never go for Trae.   Win Shares are swayed by possessions and pace.  On a Nate coached team that is always going to hinder Trae. 

[Diesel]

I was laughing this morning because they were talking about the sixers lacking a closer... They really got into how Embiid doesn't close and how Harden doesn't close and how Doc loses Big games. 

Thing is.. Trae is a closer. 

When the big lights turn on... Trae is in the game looking for his shine...

This is Trae looking for the big lights...

This is Harden when the big lights come on....

[macdaddy]

4 hours ago, benhillboy said:

I’d be that lone guy casting my first place vote for Jimmy lol.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

This is exactly where Jimmy will be if they play the Hawks in round 1 of the playoffs..... Going Fishing!

[Diesel]

Trae's Player of the week bid is in jeopardy...  First by KD - 50 piece.  Now by Irving -60 piece.  Trae stands before two strong gaurds to round out the week and far better competition than the Orlando Magic.   Come on Trae let's get POTW!!!

[Diesel]

This season should be an All NBA Team bid for Trae.   To not be one would be a Travesty. 

[macdaddy]

60/4 for Kyrie against Orlando and everyone acts like he's Wilt.  

56/14 for Trae a few weeks ago and almost no one noticed.  

Sometimes i hate this league.  

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

60/4 for Kyrie against Orlando and everyone acts like he's Wilt.  

56/14 for Trae a few weeks ago and almost no one noticed.  

Sometimes i hate this league.  

Trae is the most disrespected superstar in the league.

If Ball or CP3 or Doncic put up Back to back 40 pt games, the press would be talking about it all week. 

Trae does it and it gets no press whatsoever. 

Disrespectful is:

Both Ja and Derozen has been talked about as possible MVP candidates.  Trae scores more than both of em.. Trae is more efficient than Both of em.     Right now Trae 3pt% is higher than Steph Curry's??  However, Trae's name never comes up...  in that talk...ever...

 

[Diesel]

This Year...

MAMA here comes that Man....

 

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Stephen Curry	2021-22	33	63	63	34.9	8.5	19.4	.438	4.5	11.8	.381	4.0	7.5	.527	.554	4.4	4.7	.923	0.5	4.8	5.3	6.4	1.3	0.4	3.2	2.0	25.8
2	Trae Young	2021-22	23	63	63	34.8	9.4	20.5	.458	3.0	7.8	.384	6.4	12.7	.504	.531	6.5	7.3	.899	0.7	3.2	3.9	9.4	1.0	0.1	4.0	1.6	28.3

 

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Ja Morant	2021-22	22	55	55	33.3	10.2	20.7	.493	1.6	4.6	.341	8.7	16.1	.536	.531	5.5	7.3	.762	1.3	4.4	5.8	6.7	1.2	0.4	3.4	1.5	27.5
2	Trae Young	2021-22	23	63	63	34.8	9.4	20.5	.458	3.0	7.8	.384	6.4	12.7	.504	.531	6.5	7.3	.899	0.7	3.2	3.9	9.4	1.0	0.1	4.0	1.6	28.3

 

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Luka Dončić	2021-22	22	52	52	35.7	9.8	21.7	.453	2.9	8.5	.339	7.0	13.2	.526	.519	5.5	7.4	.741	0.9	8.4	9.3	8.6	1.2	0.6	4.5	2.3	28.0
2	Trae Young	2021-22	23	63	63	34.8	9.4	20.5	.458	3.0	7.8	.384	6.4	12.7	.504	.531	6.5	7.3	.899	0.7	3.2	3.9	9.4	1.0	0.1	4.0	1.6	28.3

 

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	DeMar DeRozan	2021-22	32	64	64	36.1	10.2	20.2	.504	0.6	1.8	.345	9.6	18.4	.520	.520	6.9	7.9	.872	0.8	4.6	5.4	5.1	0.9	0.3	2.4	2.2	28.0
2	Trae Young	2021-22	23	63	63	34.8	9.4	20.5	.458	3.0	7.8	.384	6.4	12.7	.504	.531	6.5	7.3	.899	0.7	3.2	3.9	9.4	1.0	0.1	4.0	1.6	28.3

 

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	James Harden	2021-22	32	52	52	37.0	6.5	15.7	.416	2.3	6.9	.341	4.2	8.8	.475	.491	7.2	8.2	.873	0.9	7.0	7.9	10.2	1.3	0.6	4.6	2.5	22.6
2	Trae Young	2021-22	23	63	63	34.8	9.4	20.5	.458	3.0	7.8	.384	6.4	12.7	.504	.531	6.5	7.3	.899	0.7	3.2	3.9	9.4	1.0	0.1	4.0	1.6	28.3

 

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Kyrie Irving	2021-22	29	19	19	36.1	10.1	20.6	.490	3.2	7.5	.430	6.9	13.2	.524	.568	4.3	4.8	.901	0.6	4.1	4.7	5.3	1.4	0.7	2.3	2.6	27.7
2	Trae Young	2021-22	23	63	63	34.8	9.4	20.5	.458	3.0	7.8	.384	6.4	12.7	.504	.531	6.5	7.3	.899	0.7	3.2	3.9	9.4	1.0	0.1	4.0	1.6	28.3

 

Ok.. So the Mitten doesn't rebound much.   BUT that can't be the reason why he's not in the conversation.  Only James Harden brings enough of a game that makes me say.. OK.. This guys has a lot of quality.  But the fact that any of these guys are mentioned in the MVP talk and Trae's name is never uttered.... is disrespectful and is a travesty in Basketball. 

[macdaddy]

22 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Ok.. So the Mitten doesn't rebound much.   BUT that can't be the reason why he's not in the conversation. 

I keep saying it and maybe most folks disagree but rebounds is the most over weighted statistic in the league.   80% of all these guys rebounds are uncontested defensive rebounds.   The league by in large doesn't make a lot of effort on the offensive glass in the regular season so grabbing a defensive rebound is often just a function of where your defensive assignment puts you.   On a stat sheet rebounds and assists are often equated (double double could mean either) but is a rebound as valuable as an assist?  Hell no. 

[Atlantaholic]

On 3/14/2022 at 1:22 PM, macdaddy said:

Exactly.   I don't have issue with Jokic and Giannis being up there but let's be honest, if Luka was putting up Trae's numbers even on a lottery team everyone would have him top 3 in MVP.   If Ja was even close to Trae's numbers people would lose their minds anointing him.  They already are for some reason.     

While I agree he would be getting more hype, difference between Trae and Embiid Jokic is the defensive metrics. Trae a bottom 10 defender in the NBA, that is also factored in.

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

60/4 for Kyrie against Orlando and everyone acts like he's Wilt.  

56/14 for Trae a few weeks ago and almost no one noticed.  

Sometimes i hate this league.  

60 always gets hype. Also 56/14 came in a loss. 

[shakes]

Two things are absolutely true:

 

1.  Trae is the most disrespected player in the league

2.  Trae has no business being in the MVP discussion this season.

 

There is literally no one here or anywhere outside of Trae's immediate family who is a bigger Trae fan than me, but I'm not going to listen to MVP talk for a guy on a team this shitty.    All NBA?  Yes.   But MVP, hell no.

 

Of all the team sports, basketball is the one where one person has the most effect on wins and losses.   obviously QB and hockey goalie are massive, but QB only plays half the game and goalie only plays in one end of the ice (I guess you can make a joke about Trae here as well).  Basketball only has 5 players on the court and unlike hockey, the star players log significantly more minutes per game.    The point being that of all the team sports, basketball is the one where the star players share the most responsibility/blame for wins and losses.  So if you want to win MVP in basketball you better have the team wins to back it up.

[JeffS17]

Trae really isn't THAT disrespected.  He got his well earned media attention last playoffs.  The only two things that really matter for getting media praise is winning and/or being in a big market.  We're neither of those right now.  I guarantee you if we had 48 wins like the Grizzlies, Trae would be in the MVP conversation.  Hell, his numbers would be even better than they are now because they would mean guys were knocking down the open looks he creates.

A lot of the NBA fell in love with Trae last playoffs but if he wants continued respect we need continued winning.  It's not fair to him personally cus he's one guy on a 17 man roster but that's just how it is -- for Trae and every other star player.