Miami should be Afraid.... Of the Hawks...

[macdaddy]

2 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Well I'm definitely guilty of believing Miami has a HUGE coaching advantage.

I don't dislike Sploestra but what evidence is there that he's a great coach?   Take away Lebron's years and the bubble and he's literally got nothing on his resume in his 9 other seasons.  

I do think he's a pretty good coach but lebron/allen/bosh gave him a golden ticket.

[kg01]

13 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I don't dislike Sploestra but what evidence is there that he's a great coach?   Take away Lebron's years and the bubble and he's literally got nothing on his resume in his 9 other seasons.  

I do think he's a pretty good coach but lebron/allen/bosh gave him a golden ticket.

I'd say you're mixing two different conversations.

Is he a good coach, a really good coach?  I'd say yes and the evidence is in how his teams have played, overall.  His teams ebbed and flowed but he generally has been able to put a good product out there and his teams play with a certain personality (for lack of a better description).

However, this whole 'heat culture' phenomenon is unduly elevated by the Lebron years.  I've said for years that the free agent destination moniker is wholly unearned there.

If Lebron had been able to convince Bosh/Wade to come to Cleveland, that's where they would've been.  Had nothing to do with anything Miami did.  But, because they had those Finals appearances and titles, the media folks chalk it up to "heat culture" which is nonsense.

[JeffS17]

16 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I don't dislike Sploestra but what evidence is there that he's a great coach?   Take away Lebron's years and the bubble and he's literally got nothing on his resume in his 9 other seasons.  

I do think he's a pretty good coach but lebron/allen/bosh gave him a golden ticket.

True, similar to Doc but I do think Spo is a much better coach than Doc.  He's more like Pop imo, system guy that develops a good culture that gets buy-in from the players and improves chemistry/outcomes.  He's not on Pops level imo but he's still a good coach and better than Nate.

One more thing on officiating, I watched almost all of the first round games and the refs were allowing the teams to play really physically.  If that continues, it's the Hawks who have to adjust, not the refs.  But last year the officiating felt really inconsistent game to game, so we just need to figure out what tone is set by the refs and buy into it.  If they're allowing physical play, we HAVE to be more physical.  If they're not, we need to get into the paint more and draw fouls.  Hoping to see a bit more fire from the guys either way.  Heat are a very good TEAM with decent players.  We probably match their talent fairly evenly, just need to stay focused and trust each other out there

[RedDawg#8]

5 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

True, similar to Doc but I do think Spo is a much better coach than Doc.  He's more like Pop imo, system guy that develops a good culture that gets buy-in from the players and improves chemistry/outcomes.  He's not on Pops level imo but he's still a good coach and better than Nate.

One more thing on officiating, I watched almost all of the first round games and the refs were allowing the teams to play really physically.  If that continues, it's the Hawks who have to adjust, not the refs.  But last year the officiating felt really inconsistent game to game, so we just need to figure out what tone is set by the refs and buy into it.  If they're allowing physical play, we HAVE to be more physical.  If they're not, we need to get into the paint more and draw fouls.  Hoping to see a bit more fire from the guys either way.  Heat are a very good TEAM with decent players.  We probably match their talent fairly evenly, just need to stay focused and trust each other out there

Heat have a bunch of tough minded vets that know how to play on the edge in high stakes games, and they are leaning in to it. They are using their experience to get away with playing on the line and their younger guys are feeding in to it. We are missing that element with Clint out, no Solo in the locker room, and Lou injured. Delon is the only cat we have that can mix it up consistently and not get dinged with cheapies. Hunter and OO are still being picked on for their youth but they have the DNA in them. Hoping something wakes up inside somebody soon.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Heat have a bunch of tough minded vets that know how to play on the edge in high stakes games, and they are leaning in to it. They are using their experience to get away with playing on the line and their younger guys are feeding in to it. We are missing that element with Clint out, no Solo in the locker room, and Lou injured. Delon is the only cat we have that can mix it up consistently and not get dinged with cheapies. Hunter and OO are still being picked on for their youth but they have the DNA in them. Hoping something wakes up inside somebody soon.

You have to separate good defender with toughness.  Because it seems as though you have them mixed up.   Delon, OO, and Hunter are on their way to being good defenders.   Solo and Clint are both good defenders and tough.    Lou was just a vet. 

The toughest guy we have right now is actually Trae.  Mentally, we don't have a player that reaches his level of toughness.  In that way, he is like Isiah.   However, he has to be protected.   Another tough guy that we have could be Kev.  I know Kev is super sensitive when he goes through the lane.  However, I watch Kev commit the boneheaded fouls of an enforcer.   The problem is nobody has ever told him that it's alright to do it.   So I'll do it..

KeVon... The franchise needs to send a message to Kyle Lowry that the rest of the League can learn from.   Not so overt that you get in trouble.. But A strong ass WAP to the Ear/Swipe at the ball while Lowry is going past.  It's OK.. Put him on his Ass. The Franchise thanks you in Advance!

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

13 hours ago, Diesel said:

I know the narrative this morning is that Miami dominated.  That's cool because they did.  BUT let's look a little more closely...

1.  Herro scored 6 pts on 27.3% shooting.  Bam only scored 6 pts...

We have a guy named Delon who put a lot of pressure on Herro.   Herro normally scores 21 ppg on 45% shooting.   Yesterday he was 3 for 11 so he was putting up shots.  He normally shoots 17 shoots per game.  I say we keep Delon as our Herro check..

2.  Duncan Robinson went off.

Can they expect that from him every night?  He's a 37 percent 3 pt shooter but he shot 8 for 9 from three.  I don't think he requires that much special attention, but I would like to keep him from getting the ball in his spot.  Watching all of his points came from 2 spots. 

3.  We were tired.

I know tired is not an excuse.  But this was our 3rd high impact game in 6 days.  Do they really think it was their defense that kept Trae and Bogi 0-11?  They played good defense but it's not anything that we haven't seen before.  The problem is that none of our guys were hitting shots when it counted. 

4.  We missed Clint.

Clint is the shutdown on the middle and his rim running helps to get our offense going.  We are 3-5 this season without Clint and 40-33 with him.  OO is good in spurts.. but he's not Clint. 

 

So...why else should they fear us.  JC is back.  JC had a good game for somebody who has been out for a month+.  And even though JC is not 100%,  he gave us 10/4/1 on 67% shooting in 20 minutes. 

Unfortunately, they have faced us all year and we were without Clint or had a hobbled Clint.  The Basketball gods have been good to Miami in that regard. 

 

 

LOL . . . Miami has no reason to fear us whatsoever.  If they know that they can punch us in the mouth and we fold, they have nothing to fear.

Hawks have to show them that they can take a punch, and be able to counterpunch.  We're about to see how really good this coaching staff is.  Spolestra is one of the top coaches in the game.  Nate must match what he's doing, by making the proper adjustments.  That "making a fist" shit only goes so far.  He's going to have to make the type of adjustments to help his players out on the floor.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

11 hours ago, kg01 said:

The issue is the same(ish) as the Knicks matchup.  They played hard against us all regular season.  Once we matched their intensity, talent took over.

With Miami, once we match their physicality, are they more talented than us?  Not really.

Knicks didn't have another level to get to.  We did.

Not much different here.  Just gotta ratchet up the ratched.

 

That's why I think Nate has to start Collins next game.  If he's 75%, that's probably better than what Okongwu is right now, seeing how the kid has kind of struggled the 2nd half of this season.  Collins isn't very physical, but he understands the intensity you have to bring in the playoffs.

Or Nate could get really creative, and start all 3 of his bigs, something that he had to do in last year's playoffs when most of our wings were hurt.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

You have to separate good defender with toughness.  Because it seems as though you have them mixed up.   Delon, OO, and Hunter are on their way to being good defenders.   Solo and Clint are both good defenders and tough.    Lou was just a vet. 

The toughest guy we have right now is actually Trae.  Mentally, we don't have a player that reaches his level of toughness.  In that way, he is like Isiah.   However, he has to be protected.   Another tough guy that we have could be Kev.  I know Kev is super sensitive when he goes through the lane.  However, I watch Kev commit the boneheaded fouls of an enforcer.   The problem is nobody has ever told him that it's alright to do it.   So I'll do it..

KeVon... The franchise needs to send a message to Kyle Lowry that the rest of the League can learn from.   Not so overt that you get in trouble.. But A strong ass WAP to the Ear/Swipe at the ball while Lowry is going past.  It's OK.. Put him on his Ass. The Franchise thanks you in Advance!

 

 

Come on Diesel.  Kevin Huerter is as soft as that Cottonelle tissue I have in the bathroom.  You'd be better off asking Lou Williams to come in and play "goon", than asking Huerter to put someone on his ass.

What I need Huerter to do, is win his matchup.  Knock down all of your open 3 point looks and have a Duncan Robinson effect on the game.  Asking him to play "enforcer" is like asking Dansby Swanson to steal 40 bases and hit 40 home runs this season.

I need Kevin to be the midrange assassin, whenever he has Lowry or someone smaller on him. 

 

Be the "goon" . . . on offense.

 

[Hawkmoor]

I've been watching the Hawks since around 1978.  I've seen probably every playoff series they have had during that time.   This season is one of the few where I can honestly say that I would be surprised if they won a series.  Heck,  if they win two against Miami, that would impress me.  The East is tough this season.  Having no defense and a offense over reliant on Trae Young is not gonna get it done.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

  Spolestra is one of the top coaches in the game.  Nate must match what he's doing, by making the proper adjustments.  

North... You make it sound like Spo is that much ahead of Nate?

I checked the records...

Without Lebron, Spo is 436-365   = 54.43%

Nate is 731-638 = 53.4%

Without Lebron, Spo has Lost in the finals 1, Lost in the 1st 4 times, and Lost in the 2nd round 2 times.    And Spo did all this and he had Dwayne Wade for many of those games. 

I'm not saying that Spo is not a very good coach... But let's push on the brakes before we give him Wooden Status.

 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Come on Diesel.  Kevin Huerter is as soft as that Cottonelle tissue I have in the bathroom.  You'd be better off asking Lou Williams to come in and play "goon", than asking Huerter to put someone on his ass.

What I need Huerter to do, is win his matchup.  Knock down all of your open 3 point looks and have a Duncan Robinson effect on the game.  Asking him to play "enforcer" is like asking Dansby Swanson to steal 40 bases and hit 40 home runs this season.

I need Kevin to be the midrange assassin, whenever he has Lowry or someone smaller on him. 

 

Be the "goon" . . . on offense.

 

Why is it that everytime  I talk about Kevin Huerter, somebody got to go and pull game 7 out dey ass?

[RandomFan]

Pulling some receipts just for sh*ts and giggles. I'm just poking fun, don't take it too seriously. Wasn't even planning on this but ran across this conversation when I was looking to pull some info from my old posts from last year about the playoff struggles of Gobert. Seems I was higher on Miami's playoff chances than most and now it's time for the "I told you so's."

 

Now I fully expect someone to go find something to post that I was entirely wrong about as I'm sure there is plenty to find. 

@kg01 @marco102 @REHawksFan

Edited April 19, 2022 by RandomFan

[REHawksFan]

3 hours ago, RandomFan said:

Pulling some receipts just for sh*ts and giggles. I'm just poking fun, don't take it too seriously. Wasn't even planning on this but ran across this conversation when I was looking to pull some info from my old posts from last year about the playoff struggles of Gobert. Seems I was higher on Miami's playoff chances than most and now it's time for the "I told you so's."

 

Now I fully expect someone to go find something to post that I was entirely wrong about as I'm sure there is plenty to find. 

@kg01 @marco102 @REHawksFan

I legit didn't believe in Miami.  Still not sure I think they are the best team in the East, but they certainly earned the top seed.  Let's see how they play the rest of this series though.  Putting it on the Hawks less than 48 hours after they played on the road in a high pressure game isn't exactly a huge achievement.  I suspect Trae is going to go off and we'll take a few games at least.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

Why is it that everytime  I talk about Kevin Huerter, somebody got to go and pull game 7 out dey ass?

 

Because it's literally one of the most iconic playoff performances in Hawks history.  If Huerter does nothing else in his NBA career, he will always be remembered in Atlanta for that playoff performance.  He tore the heart out of an entire franchise, and the city.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

North... You make it sound like Spo is that much ahead of Nate?

I checked the records...

Without Lebron, Spo is 436-365   = 54.43%

Nate is 731-638 = 53.4%

Without Lebron, Spo has Lost in the finals 1, Lost in the 1st 4 times, and Lost in the 2nd round 2 times.    And Spo did all this and he had Dwayne Wade for many of those games. 

I'm not saying that Spo is not a very good coach... But let's push on the brakes before we give him Wooden Status.

 

 

Do what you just did, and see how the other coaches around the league stack up.

And you just can't take away 4 seasons to make a point.  That's not how it works.

What's next?  Do we look at Bill Belichick's record without Tom Brady, to see how good of a coach he is?

It is what it is.

[Diesel]

16 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I legit didn't believe in Miami.  Still not sure I think they are the best team in the East, but they certainly earned the top seed.  Let's see how they play the rest of this series though.  Putting it on the Hawks less than 48 hours after they played on the road in a high pressure game isn't exactly a huge achievement.  I suspect Trae is going to go off and we'll take a few games at least.  

Miami is gets the benefit of parity and injury.   They are not that talented but they are a regular season monster.  They caught teams off guard and in some instances hurt.   We played them four times.  Clint only played in 1 of those games uninjured. 

I went back and reviewed their getting swept last year.  They came out strong in game 1 against Milwaukee.  Took them to OT.  That was their best effort.  After that, Bud had figured them out. 

It's going to be harder for us because we don't have Lopez, Tucker, Porter and Giannis to beat them up with.  But they aren't really a big team and Milwaukee double downed on their size and strength.  Also... Butler comes in like a Lion and goes out like a mouse when he's being pressured.  Middleton pressured him. 

 

 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Do what you just did, and see how the other coaches around the league stack up.

And you just can't take away 4 seasons to make a point.  That's not how it works.

What's next?  Do we look at Bill Belichick's record without Tom Brady, to see how good of a coach he is?

It is what it is.

You give any Coach Lebron James in his prime and they look better than they really are...  I didn't think that needed qualifying. 

As far as BB is concerned.. Don't you hear the debate...  Was it Tom or was it the system?  Then Tom leaves, goes to Tampa and wins a Chip and Bill doesn't get to the playoffs...

That's not saying that BB is not a good coach but having a generational superstar definitely made him look better. 

 

[Diesel]

15 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Because it's literally one of the most iconic playoff performances in Hawks history.  If Huerter does nothing else in his NBA career, he will always be remembered in Atlanta for that playoff performance.  He tore the heart out of an entire franchise, and the city.

That was literally Tongue in cheek... with a movie reference to boot..

But...

Don't Chris Crawford this thing. 

[marco102]

4 hours ago, RandomFan said:

Pulling some receipts just for sh*ts and giggles. I'm just poking fun, don't take it too seriously. Wasn't even planning on this but ran across this conversation when I was looking to pull some info from my old posts from last year about the playoff struggles of Gobert. Seems I was higher on Miami's playoff chances than most and now it's time for the "I told you so's."

 

Now I fully expect someone to go find something to post that I was entirely wrong about as I'm sure there is plenty to find. 

@kg01 @marco102 @REHawksFan

They still won't make it out the first round so what are you right about? 

[RandomFan]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

They still won't make it out the first round so what are you right about? 

I was right about exactly what we were debating and exactly what I said, lol. 

Quote

I think the Heat have joined the Hawks, Bucks, and Nets as legitimate contenders for the #1 seed this year. 

Which you all seemed to strongly disagree with. But yeah, I'm hoping we send them packing in this first round too.