The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

What will Atlanta do? I do not know.

Meh 🫤 

[AHF]

On 6/4/2022 at 9:47 PM, Peoriabird said:

Most of my complaints were about Trae if you are keeping score!  LOL!  But the complaints were about how they were playing not the players themselves.  And also Nate's substitution patterns especially his refusal to use Wright vs Toast Lou Williams early in the season.  And you are right, I don't think there should be major changes instead growth from within like the Steph Curry Warriors.

I do struggle a bit to understand why you complained so hard about the 23 year old playing at an All-NBA level but not the 24 year old who was playing at replacement level for much of the season.

Trae - Hunter

28.4 ppg > 13.4  ppg 

.603 ts% > .547 ts%

9.7 apg > 1.3 apg

3.7 rpg > 3.3 rpg (yes, that is the rebounding average)

0.9 spg >  0.7 spg

0.1 bpg < 0.4 bpg 

10.0 WS > 1.1 WS

5.2 BPM > -3.9 BPM (yes, negative)

4.8 VORP > -0.8 VORP (yes, negative)

3.7 RAPTOR > -2.1 RAPTOR (yes, negative)

 

For me, I'm over the moon with how well Trae has come along in his young career.  I saw a harsh downside when we drafted him and he has outperformed even what I would have considered a "realistic" ceiling projection for him at this point in career.  Definitely not complaining about him game after game.

Hunter has been considerably less than I had hoped for career to date but I actually share hope with you that he will continue to improve.  I don't expect he will be an All-Star by his 5th year but that would be amazing (with the comparison to Jaylen Brown).  

So I'm less perplexed by your uncritical support of Hunter as I am by your hyper critical breakdown of Trae.

I do agree with you that if we run the team back, we need to see a big step up from Hunter next season if this team is going to be as good as we all hope it will.  A healthy offseason for him, just like for OO and others, should be time well spent so he can best position himself for his next contract.

 

[marco102]

17 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

And Horford… nada yup..

 

There's a thread for this. Let's not start that Horford mess here again. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by marco102

[ShooterSays]

25 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

As for Ayton, I got his preference list.

Can you expand? I'm guessing ATL is on it that preference list as you said it's possible for him to still come here?

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

 Uh huh, he still in the league homie? 

I meant Jerami Grant. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Can you expand? I'm guessing ATL is on it that preference list as you said it's possible for him to still come here?

He doesn't have a list of teams. He just wants to be featured and he wants to be on a good team. He doesn't want to join a rebuilding team. 

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Meh 🫤 

It's hard to say. They really was one of the most active teams from DEC to the trade deadline period and only made one trade, Cam to NY for a 1st. It's really hard to say what they can do. They tried to land C.J. McCollum but POR preferred NO's offer. It's going to be difficult to address that position. 

[Spud2nique]

16 minutes ago, marco102 said:

There's a thread for this. Let's not start that Horford mess here again. 

I respectfully disagree with this statement.  [AHF edit]

[AHF]

19 hours ago, sturt said:

A couple or three things get very lost in our equations, seems to me.

First, how do you value Jalen Johnson? Is he for real? When you read his G-League coach commenting that he reminds him in terms of skill set and size of LeBron... is that just hype, or do you really see that yourself (... the precise question being "do you see the same skill set"... not if you think he's actually going to become the next LeBron).

He's a valuable trade piece theoretically, if you ascend to the idea that SGA is a legit pursuit.

And then again, he's a valuable asset to have right now for ATL, if you ascend to the idea that he is ready to contribute in the rotation.

Same thought, put another way... just how comfortable are you with penciling JJ into a 22-23 rotation role, and assuming the best?

Interesting questions in this post, sturt.  For JJ, I'd say "how the heck could any of us know?"  He never got a chance for run with the big boys.  Beating up g-league talent was good but doesn't demonstrate much to me.  I view him as more like a rookie where there is a big unknown.  That said, I would be open to penciling him in as a key rotation player next season and living with it if he failed if we executed the right deals which opened up that playing time.  Again, I'd view it like making a deal like say for SGA and then relying on your first round pick to come in and play.  Sometimes you have to bet on young talent and that situation would be reasonable to me.  Actually, part of my worry with it would be health given the time he has missed over the last few years but generally I'd be ok putting him in and assuming the best (and hoping to sign a vet minimum deal to back him up if he flops).

Quote

Second, same idea, different player... should we be more open-minded to trading Big2O? Is he for real? Because he also could be a valuable trade piece, making about the same money as JJ, and with a similar projected upside.

I have a significantly higher projected upside for OO just because OO has demonstrated some elite defensive skills against guys like Giannis in big games.  That is heavily influenced by his by high floor.  I think JJ has the higher theoretical ceiling but if I am looking at projected upside that is a factor of both degree and probability.  OO is already a very positive contributor and can take several steps forward if he develops a face-up game, jumper, etc. to compliment his already demonstrated skills.  

I wouldn't balk at trading anyone on our team in the right deal but OO is one where I'd really have to be convinced since I'm still quite high on him.  I'd need to see trade value commensurate to that evaluation.

Quote

Third, same idea, different player... should we presume Dre is as good as he's ever going to be?... and if so, should we be more open-minded to trading him?

 Definitely don't presume Dre is as good as he's ever going to be.  While he is the same age as JC, I do view JC as the more developed player (i.e., with less future upside relative to past performance) as compared to Hunter.  I think the injuries have hurt Hunter's development and he should continue to improve.  Now I don't see the playoffs as a breakthrough for him because I think that was less a product of beating playoff defense and more a product of Miami having sold out to stop Trae but the fact that he was one of the few players who elevated his production in that environment (while he was frequently left open he wasn't the only one in that position).  What we've seen from Hunter is pretty damning if this is as good as he is ever going to get.  His -2.1 RAPTOR last season was the worst among all Hawks with 800 minutes or more.  I just don't believe he is going to be that bad at his peak.  He should be a significantly positive player by playing strong D and being a strong tertiary option on offense.  

Again, I wouldn't bar any trade ideas with Hunter but the value needs to be there and I'm counting on future improvements from him so if the trade is predicated on his career to date performance then we aren't going to be getting offers that would convince me to trade him. 

Quote

If I were going to part with any of the three, it would be JJ. He's not yet been folded into the cake batter, so there's no chemistry/familiarity naturally lost by dealing him.

For OO and Hunter, I'd be especially reluctant to deal them given that I think both are or can be big plus players on defense and we need defense on this team.  The only deals that I'd probably be engaging on with them would be ones for true difference makers.  

For all of them, though, it would just depend on the return.  I'd expect to get the most for OO (another year of team control over DH) and the least for JJ (the least demonstrated performance).

 

[georgia]

Is Mo Bamba an option to come to Atlanta?

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, georgia said:

Is Mo Bamba an option to come to Atlanta?

No. His name hasn't been brought up for Atlanta at this time.

[AHF]

19 hours ago, terrell said:

Is this real? lol

 

OMG - That cannot be real.  If this is truly what Simmons is saying, put him on my "do not draft" list as I don't want him under any circumstances.  Guy pushes his way out of Philly and then blames his new team for not meeting his "physical and mental health needs" when he didn't play 1 minute this season and the team never publicly even criticized him?  

Soooo clearly not real.  lol  Good to hear.  

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

2022 NBA Draft Talk Plus Hawks/NBA Updates

Orlando – The talk around Orlando is that it’s a five-player race between Holmgren, Banchero, Smith, Ivey, and Daniels. Orlando hasn’t shown its hand to anyone so far. The assumption is that it will be Holmgren or Smith but it’s too early to say.

Oklahoma City – In the least shocker, OKC is highest on Jaden Ivey the most. This is what I was told and that there are executives in that organization who think Giddey, Ivey, and SGA can work long term. While many expected one of the bigs to be the pick, I am told that it’s looking more and more likely that it’s Ivey. People expect OKC and SAC to have talks but SAC has taken a hard line stance that they want to keep their 2023 1^st unless it’s lottery protected. This is being said by SAC contact as well as others around the league when speaking about SAC.

Houston – It’s pretty much looking like one of the 3 bigs here. His Houston contact couldn’t confirm the order but it’s basically one of them. Within the organization, they are questioning the fit of Ivey with Green.

Sacramento – Pretty much one of the bigs is their choice. There is talk of them potentially trading down. They have reached out to Atlanta about John Collins but I don’t have anything truly concrete to say it’s their top backup plan if the bigs are gone before 4. Just based on how OKC feels about Ivey, I doubt all three bigs will be gone by 4.

Detroit – Daniels is getting a lot of love here but so is Murray and Ivey. Mathurin, Williams and Duren are dark horses here for now.

Indiana – He hasn’t heard anything from IND in terms of the draft but they are openly willing to move Brogdon and Turner.

Portland – I am told they would prefer to have John Collins over Jerian Grant and would like O.G. Anunoby over JC but the cost for OG and JC is much higher than what they even think Grant will cost. They are not willing to trade #7 for Grant. They would rather trade a protected 1^st. I am told, OG not available and it would have to be an overpay. JC is not available either but it will cost Josh Hart and #7 overall. Portland is expected to keep the pick is what I was told.

NO  - I don’t have anything for the draft for them. Just they want to keep Zion and he’s not getting traded at all.  

San Antonio – They are looking to make some minor moves. They want to improve their squad and add more vets. They been in contact with Atlanta about Bogi.                

Washington – They have 15 players they really like and they are choosing between those top 15 guys. I don’t know who those guys are yet.

 

Atlanta News

Ayton, Gobert, Mitchell, LaVine, and Beal.

As for Ayton, I got his preference list. He wants to go to a team where he is highly featured and they have a winning team right now. He would prefer to stay in PHX.

Gobert – His ideal spot from his agent is Golden State. Utah isn’t too keen to keeping him in the West. Atlanta and Toronto are teams his agent likes a lot that’s been mentioned for him. Teams are looking for Atlanta to drop out the race like Boston for Kawhi Leonard to make the cost go much cheaper. Utah has eyes on OG but TOR is only interested in trading OG for Mitchell who has lots of admirers around the league.

Mitchell – He’s not available but everyone is watching what happens in Utah just in case he is. His agent has put out their teams he’s interested in but he wants to stay in Utah for the long term.

LaVine – The #1 available FA is leaning to returning as long as he can get the full max from CHI who’s been reluctant but like the Hawks with ISO Joe, might have their hands forced to do so. I am expecting Atlanta to make a serious run but he's likely to return. He wants to see which team has the best presentation but teams around the league think it's for show if CHI shows him the money. 

Beal – It’s nearly a done deal, he’s going to get the supermax to return to WAS.

 

What will Atlanta do? I do not know. I do know that Ayton and Gobert have a great shot of coming to Atlanta. Higher than any other time we wanted someone since ISO Joe. It’s going to be hard to upgrade that SG spot. All of the same level players as what we have right now are available but no one of a super high tier is available for trade and the ones we covet seem to be slipping away. I am not expecting to trade up in the draft either. I think Portland makes the most sense for that and they aren’t the biggest fans of the price tag for the vets on the market. We will see…

I do expect Atlanta to remain extremely active as that’s the mandate that’s out there around the league from teams who’s talked to Atlanta about moves. The big thing is Atlanta isn’t Brooklyn with Billy King with it. Teams don’t know if they are trading players for assets or trading for studs. It seems like they are willing to do both. Depending on the said asset.

My Thoughts verbally communicated - https://voca.ro/1fMPRxbs1H4m

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

OMG - That cannot be real.  If this is truly what Simmons is saying, put him on my "do not draft" list as I don't want him under any circumstances.  Guy pushes his way out of Philly and then blames his new team for not meeting his "physical and mental health needs" when he didn't play 1 minute this season and the team never publicly even criticized him?  

Buttcrack sports....

[Hawkmoor]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

What will Atlanta do? I do not know. I do know that Ayton and Gobert have a great shot of coming to Atlanta. Higher than any other time we wanted someone since ISO Joe. It’s going to be hard to upgrade that SG spot. All of the same level players as what we have right now are available but no one of a super high tier is available for trade and the ones we covet seem to be slipping away. I am not expecting to trade up in the draft either. I think Portland makes the most sense for that and they aren’t the biggest fans of the price tag for the vets on the market. We will see…

I do expect Atlanta to remain extremely active as that’s the mandate that’s out there around the league from teams who’s talked to Atlanta about moves. The big thing is Atlanta isn’t Brooklyn with Billy King with it. Teams don’t know if they are trading players for assets or trading for studs. It seems like they are willing to do both. Depending on the said asset.

[Hawkmoor]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

The best thing you’ve ever said.

A long ways from it, but I appreciate the comment anyway.  The NBA is a clown show.  The NFL tries to hide its mess, along with MLB, but the NBA is just front and center because you can see everything, IF YOU WANT TO.

 

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, Hawkmoor said:

A long ways from it, but I appreciate the comment anyway.  The NBA is a clown show.  The NFL tries to hide its mess, along with MLB, but the NBA is just front and center because you can see everything, IF YOU WANT TO.

 

It's just silly that 3 officials are going to go for that.   They think we're idiots, which i guess we are because we keep watching.   Why not just get 5 officials so they can watch every player.   

[AHF]

27 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

A long ways from it, but I appreciate the comment anyway.  The NBA is a clown show.  The NFL tries to hide its mess, along with MLB, but the NBA is just front and center because you can see everything, IF YOU WANT TO.

 

Plays like this are a shameful commentary on the refs.  Either on their competency or on their integrity.  (Only other option is both.)

[JeffS17]

26 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

It's just silly that 3 officials are going to go for that.   They think we're idiots, which i guess we are because we keep watching.   Why not just get 5 officials so they can watch every player.   

I don't think it's about the number of officials but their bias towards giving the league what financially benefits everyone (a longer series).

[Hawkmoor]

Luxury tax or bust.  No way around it as long as Nate is the head coach.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

No. His name hasn't been brought up for Atlanta at this time.

Take it from somebody that got fooled by Bamba around draft time, don't fall for that guy.

Suddenly played useful in a contrack year?  Pass