The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[terrell]

44 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Not so much the offseason but rather where the team ends next season. Depends on if Ressler is willing to spend (he says he is), so we shall see.

What if we don't get any of our rumored targets like Ayton, Gobert, Lavine etc.....so the core of the team returns (Trae, Huerter, Bogi, Hunter, Collins, Cap, OO, Johnson)

- Hunter is HEALTHY for 82 games and becomes what we envision as the #2 like he did in game 5 vs Heat?

- Huerter finally takes the leap 

- OO really returns with a jump shot? Better defensive rebounder And by midseason supplants Cap as the starter.

- Trade Gallo and #16 for upgrades to the bench (I like my OKC idea) 

- resign Delon

Hawks are a top 4 seed and make a deep playoff run....what then?

If I knew ALL of that was going to happen, Id rather keep 16 and draft another Big wing like Eason, Sochan, Jalen Williams, etc to back up Dre.. lol

[sturt]

5 minutes ago, terrell said:

Id rather keep 16

Why though. Do you see that as actually helping for 2022-23 when McM already is going to be mixing into the rotation (presumably, and based on his own comments) last year's #20 who didn't get to fill many of JC's injury minutes?

[Peoriabird]

12 minutes ago, sturt said:

Why though. Do you see that as actually helping for 2022-23 when McM already is going to be mixing into the rotation (presumably, and based on his own comments) last year's #20 who didn't get to fill many of JC's injury minutes?

There is life after 2022-23 and McM

[gurpilo]

hace 5 horas, JTB dijo:

If we get Ayton the other need for a go to scorer is taken care of. Ayton can go get a bucket he doesn’t need to be assisted by Trae on every possession to score. Unlike Capela, Ayton actually has moves offensively and don’t forget about JC as a 3rd scoring option. We’d have 3 strong scoring options where Trae can spam the 4 or the 5.

So I would say the need would be a second ball handler (unless Hunter vastly improves) and wing defender (to me if we have Ayton then a wing defender is the most important task we’d need to be addressed over another ball handler).

If we increase Gallo current contract it’s still an expiring for the next off season right 2023 ?….the receiving team wouldn’t be able to release him this off season to create cap space I don’t believe.

I disagree, we need another shot creator on the wing, a combo guard that can alleviate pressure from Trae, Ayton is not enough

[JTB]

19 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

I disagree, we need another shot creator on the wing, a combo guard that can alleviate pressure from Trae, Ayton is not enough

We’ll have to agree to disagree. While you do make a good point I believe it’s only a good valid point because of the non offensive creativeness of McMillan and his staff. 
 

We shouldn’t need another wing creator when Ayton can create from the post  area and build playmaking skills from the post! Offensively Ayton is super talented and this should be a place where he can finally showcase ALL of his offensive abilities.

[LucastheThird]

2 minutes ago, JTB said:

I believe it’s only a good valid point because of the non offensive creativeness of McMillan and his staff. 
 

We shouldn’t need another wing creator when Ayton can create from the post  area and build playmaking skills from the post! Offensively Ayton is super talented and this should be a place where he can finally showcase ALL of his offensive abilities.

100% this! McM has to have marching orders to flesh out his offensive system more. We need more than 1-5 PnR. There has to be counter attacks: the JC short roll (if he's still a Hawk), backdoor cuts, disguised plays, etc. 

[gurpilo]

hace 18 minutos, JTB dijo:

We’ll have to agree to disagree. While you do make a good point I believe it’s only a good valid point because of the non offensive creativeness of McMillan and his staff. 
 

We shouldn’t need another wing creator when Ayton can create from the post  area and build playmaking skills from the post! Offensively Ayton is super talented and this should be a place where he can finally showcase ALL of his offensive abilities.

All the good teams have some good guards, ball handlers and shot creators.

Boston: Smart, Brown, White

GSW: Curry, Poole, Thompson

Dallas: Brunson, Doncic, Dwindidie

Phoenix: Paul, Booker, Payne

We just have Trae, we need another one

 

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by gurpilo

[NBASupes]

14 hours ago, sturt said:

So. I didn't realize this. Maybe you did.

 

Gallo's non-guaranteed amount isn't set in stone. That is, we can increase it to whatever number we would want to. Yes, I realize the $21.5m must be accommodated by the receiving team's cap space anyhow, but it really eliminates the concern that we can only take back up to $8.85m.

What remains unclear to me is this. No one with credibility that I've read establishes that Gallo's new team would be on the hook for the full $21.5m even if they cut him. Yes, I've read that some fans have concluded that that is the case, but I hedge b/c of how it's consistently discussed in credible sources' sites... that the receiving team has to accommodate Gallo's trade value. It's not actually necessary from that to conclude that that condition forces the new team to guarantee the salary, and it would seem if that were the case, the words these sources choose would be precisely that. Why do I care? Well, it's a major thing, of course, if by trading for Gallo, you're forced to guarantee the contract. Again, that's not how it's talked about. It's talked about in terms of trade value.

Bottom line, I'm not persuaded (though I realize I'm probably in the minority) that OKC trading for Gallo would mean OKC guaranteeing his contract... there is reason to believe that OKC... in trading for Gallo... must be able  to accommodate Gallo's $21.5m w/ cap space, but they also could still decide ahead of 6/29 to waive him, and only eat $5m.

 

Why would Detroit or anyone want to pay Danilo 15 million 

[NBASupes]

10 hours ago, gurpilo said:

The issue here is that the team needs more moves, Ayton for Capela and picks is a step in the right direction but we need to address the rest of the issues, 2nd ball handler and scorer and wing defense. 

Bogi and Huerter are the same player, Gallo can be moved, Collins might be moved if the right trade appears but at he end we need to improve SG position and wing defense.

Delon Wright might be a consolation prize if we do not get any good trade done but while Huerter and Bogi are here one is going to start and we will have the same problems.

It's not like those guys are just a dime a dozen though 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Why though. Do you see that as actually helping for 2022-23 when McM already is going to be mixing into the rotation (presumably, and based on his own comments) last year's #20 who didn't get to fill many of JC's injury minutes?

Maybe he thought JJ wasnt ready to play meaningful min in the NBA? I mean he only played a few games in College right? Not defending Nate dumbass. Just sayin.. lol

[Peoriabird]

14 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

All the good teams have some good guards, ball handlers and shot creators.

Boston: Smart, Brown, White

GSW: Curry, Poole, Thompson

Dallas: Brunson, Doncic, Dwindidie

Phoenix: Paul, Booker, Payne

We just have Trae, we need another one

 

 

I'm beginning to think that the mentality is that we have to do this over night like win a title next year at all cost.  It does happen like that.  White and Poole were late 1st round picks while Brunson and Dwindidie were 2nd round picks.  You can get those kinds of players with both picks in the up coming draft rather than mortgaging your future and over paying for them for the now.

[gurpilo]

hace 7 minutos, Peoriabird dijo:

I'm beginning to think that the mentality is that we have to do this over night like win a title next year at all cost.  It does happen like that.  White and Poole were late 1st round picks while Brunson and Dwindidie were 2nd round picks.  You can get those kinds of players with both picks in the up coming draft rather than mortgaging your future and over paying for them for the now.

Well, we are bad at drafting those players.

Having Huerter and Bogi is a problem, same type of player, will play a lot of minutes and we will have the same problems. 
Roster need a change, we need to have more versatility, more size, more defense.

[JayBirdHawk]

45 minutes ago, JTB said:

We’ll have to agree to disagree. While you do make a good point I believe it’s only a good valid point because of the non offensive creativeness of McMillan and his staff. 
 

We shouldn’t need another wing creator when Ayton can create from the post  area and build playmaking skills from the post! Offensively Ayton is super talented and this should be a place where he can finally showcase ALL of his offensive abilities.

Ayton has offensive versatility in his game but being a playmaking C he doesn't have that. Hawks still need Wing ballhandlers/creators.  And this is why it will be tough starting OO at PF without his range extending- the supposed Ayton in the post gets that much more difficult without a PF with the ability to step out and hit a reliable jump shot.

[Peoriabird]

11 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

Well, we are bad at drafting those players.

Having Huerter and Bogi is a problem, same type of player, will play a lot of minutes and we will have the same problems. 
Roster need a change, we need to have more versatility, more size, more defense.

Well find someone who is good at it!  Problem solved!

[NBASupes]

17 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

Well, we are bad at drafting those players.

Having Huerter and Bogi is a problem, same type of player, will play a lot of minutes and we will have the same problems. 
Roster need a change, we need to have more versatility, more size, more defense.

Kevin wasn't ready so we had to sign Bogi. Both are PDS guys. What you guys want is a PDS guy who's also has a lot of self creation skills.

[marco102]

36 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Ayton has offensive versatility in his game but being a playmaking C he doesn't have that. Hawks still need Wing ballhandlers/creators.  And this is why it will be tough starting OO at PF without his range extending- the supposed Ayton in the post gets that much more difficult without a PF with the ability to step out and hit a reliable jump shot.

Last season, he showed a lot of improvement in passing out of the short roll and made some really good reads.  I think in time he can be a 3 or 4 assist kind of guy playing with someone like Trae.  

Those are pretty big numbers from your center. 

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Last season, he showed a lot of improvement in passing out of the short roll and made some really good reads.  I think in time he can be a 3 or 4 assist kind of guy playing with someone like Trae.  

Those are pretty big numbers from your center. 

Agreed, but Hawks still need another ballhandler on the wing. Teams trapping Trae as soon as he crosses half court is problematic.

[terrell]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm beginning to think that the mentality is that we have to do this over night like win a title next year at all cost.  It does happen like that.  White and Poole were late 1st round picks while Brunson and Dwindidie were 2nd round picks.  You can get those kinds of players with both picks in the up coming draft rather than mortgaging your future and over paying for them for the now.

I saw we worked out alot of guys who will be day 2 picks..But I havent seen as many from players that should be picked around 16... Unkess I missed them...Is the pick already traded? 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

38 minutes ago, terrell said:

I saw we worked out alot of guys who will be day 2 picks..But I havent seen as many from players that should be picked around 16... Unkess I missed them...Is the pick already traded? 

 

You'll probably hear more about those guys later this week.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Maybe he thought JJ wasnt ready to play meaningful min in the NBA? I mean he only played a few games in College right? Not defending Nate dumbass. Just sayin.. lol

Right.

But my intended point was, there are only so many rotation spots to be had, and thus, only so many players that are going to get any meaningful minutes in the pursuit of re-establishing his team as a legit contender for 22-23.

And, we already know (a) McM has a history even predating ATL of resisting inserting younger players into his line-ups, and so (b) to anticipate he'd actually insert not just one but two into his plans for 22-23... seems a stretch.

Thus, the value of keeping #16 seems a stretch, at least from where I sit.

 

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

There is life after 2022-23 and McM

Right.

But as said in another post yesterday... here's your trouble...

Schlenk can't plan for the next coach. Schlenk can't plan for 23-24 and beyond. Schlenk has to do whatever he's going to do full throttle laser-focused on re-validating that his master plan that got us to an EC Final in 20-21 was legit.

Thus, any thought that he's going to take a longer view than 22-23 with how he constructs the 22-23 team seems to be infected with cognitive dissonance.

 

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Why would Detroit or anyone want to pay Danilo 15 million 

Don't know about DET. I suppose someone else somewhere in the thread suggested them, but I've not really looked at that.

My thought in response is this.

Think maybe (???) you and @thecampster (based on his "like") might be among those who may accept the idea that the trade value aspect of a deal for a non-guaranteed player inherently means that the receiving team must take-on the contract at the trade value.

I've been researching it to the degree that I can find anything online, and based on that, my takeaway is that that seems to be more a creation/assumption of some fans than it seems to be rooted in any actual language. Can't find that Coon even addresses it, but maybe I've overlooked it.

But those who write about it, such as the guy at Hoops Rumors who impressed me as having studied it, used words that discernibly separated the element of applying trade value to the transaction and the element of the receiving team, then, being automatically obligated to guarantee the incoming player's contract.

And here's why I'm 51+% inclined to think I'm seeing this correctly: The trade value aspect is incorporated into the rule self-evidently to ensure that if the newly-acquired non-guaranteed player's contract is guaranteed--then consistent with the whole reason this 2018 rule was birthed--the receiving team's payroll need to be able to accommodate that according to the normal conventional CBA trade rules. But here's the thing... that's the ONLY relevant reason the trade value needs to be considered.

In other words, there is nothing about the overall spirit of the new rule that demands that the new team actually should be forced to guaranteed that contract. To the contrary, if the contract says the guarantee date is 6/29, then that's the guarantee date. If another team has been assigned the contract through trade, then the choice remains for them to determine.

If I'm wrong about that, then I'm wrong about that, but there must be some specific CBA language that makes that so... and I'm just not reading anything that establishes that... nay, even suggests it... ie, other than what fans have read into it, and yeah, somewhat naturally assumed.... but I believe it's that... "assumed," and they haven't really paused to see that it's not necessarily that way.

All that...

(*catches breath*... hehe... )

to say...

Yeah, if OKC... OKC specifically... can deal for Gallo before 6/29 at a newly-updated guarantee of $11m, or OKC being OKC and Presti being Presti, even $15m... and in that trade send out a $16m package of players that are far more valuable to a team looking to seriously contend in 22-23 than they would be to them ... and get, for their trouble (practically none) a #16 pick? Add to that even moreover that they already have a full roster, and are logically needing to make room for their next draft class?

Seems no-brainer-ish.