All-NBA Trae!

[Atlantaholic]

14 hours ago, marco102 said:

First, from a statical standpoint. 

argueably (depends on which stats) But hands down should have been second for sure. 

[marco102]

50 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

argueably (depends on which stats) But hands down should have been second for sure. 

The offensive ones which generally are what are used to select all NBA guards. He's the top guard in most if not all of them.

[Atlantaholic]

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

The offensive ones which generally are what are used to select all NBA guards. He's the top guard in most if not all of them.

Like I said, it's argueable. If you don't disregard defensive stats than he's still second team but probably not first team.

[Atlantaholic]

Just now, Atlantaholic said:

Like I said, it's argueable. If you don't disregard defensive stats than he's still second team but probably not first team.

Of course though if you put Tatum as a forward which HE IS, then it's not argueable and he should be first team. 

[marco102]

1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

Like I said, it's argueable. If you don't disregard defensive stats than he's still second team but probably not first team.

If it was about guard defense, Marcus Smart would be 1st team.  People just talk about defense to tear down their least favorite offensive player.  

ALL NBA has most been about the best offensive two way wings and centers.  Generally the guards there in the recent past have all been booty. 

Luka and Steph weren't good defenders.  They may have been better than Trae, but again looking at his statistical season, which you can't really quantify defense fairly, he was the best offensive guard and that usually gets you first team All NBA. 

It happened to Harden a couple of times when he wasn't first team, but generally that what's happens. 

 

[marco102]

1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

Of course though if you put Tatum as a forward which HE IS, then it's not argueable and he should be first team. 

I mean call me crazy, but he had a better season than Luka so Luka should have been second team.  I can't say Booker because the winning was just too much to ignore.  Which may be the argument they are using for Luka.  Who knows.  I was just saying statistically when someone puts up the numbers Trae did on a winning team, they are considered first.  It's just pulling hairs at this point though.  He'll get the recognition when the Hawks win more.

[Atlantaholic]

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I mean call me crazy, but he had a better season than Luka so Luka should have been second team.  I can't say Booker because the winning was just too much to ignore.  Which may be the argument they are using for Luka.  Who knows.  I was just saying statistically when someone puts up the numbers Trae did on a winning team, they are considered first.  It's just pulling hairs at this point though.  He'll get the recognition when the Hawks win more.

He was having a much better season but Luka closed out the year on an absolute tear and if you look at his advanced stats including defense he was a bit higher than Trae Young overall, if you factor in team success with them then it's also a bonus point. Like I said, argueable. 

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

He was having a much better season but Luka closed out the year on an absolute tear and if you look at his advanced stats including defense he was a bit higher than Trae Young overall, if you factor in team success with them then it's also a bonus point. Like I said, argueable. 

Post All star

Dallas 17-6

Atlanta 15-9   (17-9 if you count the playin.  which i shall)

 

[Atlantaholic]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Post All star

Dallas 17-6

Atlanta 15-9   (17-9 if you count the playin.  which i shall)

 

Well the playin does not even count for stats, so not sure why it would be factored in for individual awards, but not that it makes any difference, to my point.

Dallas finished fourth in the West overall and Doncic finished top five in WAR (Hawks 9th, Trae Young 12th in WAr), with a much better overall +- both simple and Raptor. Raw stats about equal though you can give the nod to Trae Young if you look at both PER and Win Shares. Like I said, you can argue Doncic (and Tatum) if you want to, not that I agree but just pointing it out. You can't really argue Ja Morant unless you are super picky.

[RandomFan]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

Trae had a better season than Luka and Ja.  More efficient than Luka and just better than Ja. 

Should have just stopped there. 

1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

Like I said, it's argueable. If you don't disregard defensive stats than he's still second team but probably not first team.

Luka is every bit as bad a defender as Trae, and had worse offensive stats. I'm not a Luka hater, I don't mind him getting his props. But Trae is at least as good as him and it's ridiculous that he doesn't get his flowers in equal measure. 

[Atlantaholic]

9 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Should have just stopped there. 

Luka is every bit as bad a defender as Trae, and had worse offensive stats. I'm not a Luka hater, I don't mind him getting his props. But Trae is at least as good as him and it's ridiculous that he doesn't get his flowers in equal measure. 

He's not though. Trae was 245th in defensive Raptor vs luka 85th (-3.0 vs +0.8). If you look at simple box +- Luka has a huge edge as well with a plus 1.8 vs -2.0, overall in WAR he ranked 5th vs Trae at 12th. What defensive metric has Luka as bad as Trae?

[macdaddy]

7 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Should have just stopped there. 

Luka is every bit as bad a defender as Trae, and had worse offensive stats. I'm not a Luka hater, I don't mind him getting his props. But Trae is at least as good as him and it's ridiculous that he doesn't get his flowers in equal measure. 

Yes.  That's my thing.   The differences is 'winning' and defense are fairly small to be considered meaningful for an individual award.  The stats seem to favor Trae and #1 in total points and #1 in total assists is not nothing.  It's certainly should be weighted heavier than his team having 9 more wins.  

Trae had 300 more points and 150 more assists on the season than Luka

Trae had 600 more points and 350 more assists (basically double) on the season than Ja

[Diesel]

Unfortunately, the voters don't all take this seriously.  One pundit voted for Kyrie. 

 

[kg01]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Why do they have 1,2,3 teams anyway.  Why not just name 15 guys all nba?

Leave it up to wacdaddy (see how that rolls off the tongue, @Spud2nique ... ok, maybe not) to ask the hot questions.

I have another.  Why in the flying fart does the league base 'supermax' contracts off this nonsense?

Even if they chose to do that, why in the flying fart would they not require making all-NBA be a mandatory thing each year of the contract.  Not just one year.

That's how John Wall's 'more done than a bag of popcorn in the microwave for 10 minutes' a** is still considered "supermax".  Ridiculous.

[macdaddy]

17 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Leave it up to wacdaddy (see how that rolls off the tongue, @Spud2nique ... ok, maybe not) to ask the hot questions.

I have another.  Why in the flying fart does the league base 'supermax' contracts off this nonsense?

Even if they chose to do that, why in the flying fart would they not require making all-NBA be a mandatory thing each year of the contract.  Not just one year.

That's how John Wall's 'more done than a bag of popcorn in the microwave for 10 minutes' a** is still considered "supermax".  Ridiculous.

Yeah it's totally wac that they let randos vote on whether a guy gets an extra $35 million.   

[marco102]

All NBA Ballots

https://pr.nba.com/voting-results-2021-22-nba-regular-season-awards/

You can see the 12 who left Trae off their ballots. 

[RandomFan]

1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

He's not though. Trae was 245th in defensive Raptor vs luka 85th (-3.0 vs +0.8). If you look at simple box +- Luka has a huge edge as well with a plus 1.8 vs -2.0, overall in WAR he ranked 5th vs Trae at 12th. What defensive metric has Luka as bad as Trae?

Defensive metrics, by their nature, are traditionally impossible to pin down accurately. We all know this. But here's a tell: playoff teams go at Luka on D like he stole from their grandma, just like they do at Trae. We all should know by now Luka Donuts is about as stiff on D as a fart in the wind. 

 

[Guest]

Trae received zero votes for first team and 11 votes for second team.  87 votes were cast for each team.  He received 59 out of 87 votes for 3rd team.    

While I personally believe Trae should have been 2nd team, above Ja Morant, the 87 voters certainly thought otherwise with near unanimity.  

[macdaddy]

These are the ones i found that left Trae off entirely.   I could have gotten some wrong.

Arnovitz, Kevin ESPN

Miyaji, Yoko Sports Graphic Number

Pasch, Dave ESPN

Reynolds, Tim Associated Press

Robbins, Josh The Athletic

Rose, Jalen ESPN   (WTF?  He put Kyrie?)

Schutz, Guillermo Televisa (TUDN)

Stavrou, Harris Sport24

Sohi, Seerat The Ringer

 

The names i saw 'in place' of Trae were Donovan Mitchell, Bam and Gobert (i know they aren't guards but somehow it seemed to work out that way).  

[macdaddy]

Goodwill, Vince Yahoo! Sports