The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

While I feel that Brogdon would definitely cost a lot less than Murray, Brogdon may be the better player?  He has shown that he can be a three point shooter around 38-40%.  He's much bigger than Murray... and he's from Atlanta. 

Also, INdy has a lot of reason to trade him.  Haliburton is the man now.. they just drafted dude out of Kansas..  They are rebuilding....and they may do the damn deal for JC alone. 

Even when you consider the injury history of both? 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

What other team who wants him is giving up a player the quality of JC? 

Nah, see the GS Warriors.  They did both.  I would hope we can. 

I'm not saying our young talent is untouchable, but shouldn't give it all up in one trade. 

 

Or see the Miami Heat, when it was obvious that Dwyane Wade was a superstar in the making. 

Looking at the transaction that landed them Shaq ... the Heat gave up Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant, a 2006 1st rd pick ( that became Jordan Farmar picked at the very end of the 1st rd ), and a 2007 2nd rd pick that landed them Renaldis Seibutis ( whomever that was ).

Adding Shaq to Wade also enabled them to win 59 games and pushed the Pistons to Game 7 of the EC Finals. The next season, they added quality aging vets that helped them win a title.

3 yrs later, they were the worst team in the league, but had enough cap space and draft capital to quickly rebuild again. They did it and won 2 of the next 4 titles.

So what would've happened if the Heat stood pat after the 2003 - 04 season, and said that a core of Wade, Odom and Butler were good enough to keep building on?

There's a good possibility that the Heat never win a title, while also staying good enough to be a playoff level team all throughout the 2000s.  No championships, but nice solid years of 43 - 50 win seasons.  Wade is still a superstar, but not a champion.

The Heat acted quickly and swiftly ... twice ... in order to put star talent around Wade.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Even when you consider the injury history of both? 

That's why Brogdon is a player you can buy low.  We just have to Marcus Camby this thing...  I don't think he has had anything like Bogi's knee.  An injury that we know will reoccur.  It's the gamble.

But 6'5" 229 is a lot better than 6'4" 180...

Plus I think Brogdon can get more assists. 

For a while, I had thoughts that I would be disappointed if we came away with Brogdon.. but I'm thnking big picture.... does he help Trae...

 

 

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Or see the Miami Heat, when it was obvious that Dwyane Wade was a superstar in the making. 

Looking at the transaction that landed them Shaq ... the Heat gave up Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant, a 2006 1st rd pick ( that became Jordan Farmar picked at the very end of the 1st rd ), and a 2007 2nd rd pick that landed them Renaldis Seibutis ( whomever that was ).

Adding Shaq to Wade also enabled them to win 59 games and pushed the Pistons to Game 7 of the EC Finals. The next season, they added quality aging vets that helped them win a title.

3 yrs later, they were the worst team in the league, but had enough cap space and draft capital to quickly rebuild again. They did it and won 2 of the next 4 titles.

So what would've happened if the Heat stood pat after the 2003 - 04 season, and said that a core of Wade, Odom and Butler were good enough to keep building on?

There's a good possibility that the Heat never win a title, while also staying good enough to be a playoff level team all throughout the 2000s.  No championships, but nice solid years of 43 - 50 win seasons.  Wade is still a superstar, but not a champion.

The Heat acted quickly and swiftly ... twice ... in order to put star talent around Wade.

That's true. I would do the same if we were getting a player the calaber of Shaq.  Murray ain't that. 

I'm not saying don't give up picks, just saying you don't cave to all the demands of San Antonio.  Let's say the worst happens and we get the number 1 pick next year. Victor Wembanyama, can net you several more picks you can package together to get an even better star player than Murray.  For example, I'm pretty sure OKC would trade SGA for him who we all agree is better than Murray.

Edit: Looks like you are referring to KD - My bad. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by marco102

[sturt]

11 minutes ago, Diesel said:

they may do the damn deal for JC alone. 

Right. But I think he's a lesser player than JC, so that's not even barely okay. You can't win a trade by trading for a lesser... and older... player.

 

 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Or see the Miami Heat, when it was obvious that Dwyane Wade was a superstar in the making. 

Looking at the transaction that landed them Shaq ... the Heat gave up Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant, a 2006 1st rd pick ( that became Jordan Farmar picked at the very end of the 1st rd ), and a 2007 2nd rd pick that landed them Renaldis Seibutis ( whomever that was ).

Adding Shaq to Wade also enabled them to win 59 games and pushed the Pistons to Game 7 of the EC Finals. The next season, they added quality aging vets that helped them win a title.

3 yrs later, they were the worst team in the league, but had enough cap space and draft capital to quickly rebuild again. They did it and won 2 of the next 4 titles.

So what would've happened if the Heat stood pat after the 2003 - 04 season, and said that a core of Wade, Odom and Butler were good enough to keep building on?

There's a good possibility that the Heat never win a title, while also staying good enough to be a playoff level team all throughout the 2000s.  No championships, but nice solid years of 43 - 50 win seasons.  Wade is still a superstar, but not a champion.

The Heat acted quickly and swiftly ... twice ... in order to put star talent around Wade.

Pat Riley is the Blueprint for going after the Whales of FAcy... and building a team through FAcy/Trade.  Miami is one of those city where you love to play but when you watched games, they had a hard time keeping the seats full.  Similar to us they have fair weather fans...  BUT  Riley is genius in Building and sells everybody on "culture".   If BKLN really breaks up, I expect Miami to get either Kyrie, KD or Simmons...   Because Pat Riley is not picking up FRPs and trying to wait on them... he gives less than a damn about the draft.  He knows that he can take undrafted guys and get what he needs from them. 

 

 

[Final_quest]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Or see the Miami Heat, when it was obvious that Dwyane Wade was a superstar in the making. 

Looking at the transaction that landed them Shaq ... the Heat gave up Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant, a 2006 1st rd pick ( that became Jordan Farmar picked at the very end of the 1st rd ), and a 2007 2nd rd pick that landed them Renaldis Seibutis ( whomever that was ).

Adding Shaq to Wade also enabled them to win 59 games and pushed the Pistons to Game 7 of the EC Finals. The next season, they added quality aging vets that helped them win a title.

3 yrs later, they were the worst team in the league, but had enough cap space and draft capital to quickly rebuild again. They did it and won 2 of the next 4 titles.

So what would've happened if the Heat stood pat after the 2003 - 04 season, and said that a core of Wade, Odom and Butler were good enough to keep building on?

There's a good possibility that the Heat never win a title, while also staying good enough to be a playoff level team all throughout the 2000s.  No championships, but nice solid years of 43 - 50 win seasons.  Wade is still a superstar, but not a champion.

The Heat acted quickly and swiftly ... twice ... in order to put star talent around Wade.

Amazing, I was just looking up Wade’s early seasons to figure this out.  I agree.  This scenario reminds me of where we are with Trae.  

[akay]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

don’t say that.. oh man you just put yourself into a spin cycle.

I just moved to Oakland and have been enjoying the...medication. In a spin cycle quite often lol 

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

Right. But I think he's a lesser player than JC, so that's not even barely okay. You can't win a trade by trading for a lesser... and older... player.

 

 

If they'd do a Gallo Trade, I'm all over it.  Or even a Bogi trade.   Up to a JC trade if we must trade JC. 

 

[Final_quest]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

That's true. I would do the same if we were getting a player the calaber of Shaq.  Murray ain't that. 

I'm not saying don't give up picks, just saying you don't cave to all the demands of San Antonio.  Let's say the worst happens and we get the number 1 pick next year. Victor Wembanyama, can net you several more picks you can package together to get an even better star player than Murray.  For example, I'm pretty sure OKC would trade SGA for him who we all agree is better than Murray.

Think he is referring to the KD rumors.

[Diesel]

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/atlanta_hawks_have_third_highest_odds_of_landing_kevin_durant/s1_16874_37622528?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

Atlanta Hawks Have Third-Highest Odds of Landing Kevin Durant

Originally posted on FanNation All Hawks  |  By Pat Benson  |  Last updated 6/25/22

Death, taxes and the NBA being unnecessarily dramatic. It's one of the many reasons why we love this game. If you missed it, the Brooklyn Nets and Kyrie Irving are at an impasse in contract negotiations. The situation has quickly spiraled out of control, and now the Nets are at risk of losing Irving as well as his good friend Kevin Durant.

 

 

[sturt]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

They are giving up one of the best young and upcoming guards in the game.

The comparison makes me nauseous, but a year ago, the talk about Murray was approximately what the talk is today about Collins.... seems to have so much potential, but he's just not yet put it all together to be all he clearly is capable of being.

Murray is a year older than Collins.

A year from now, who of us would really be surprised in the least if people were speaking of Collins' 22-23 season in the same way that people are here speaking of Murray based on his 21-22 season?

 

This should be, at worst, JC and one FRP asset for Murray.

(I've stopped saying it should be two, having realized, you're only getting 2 years of Murray, so that compromises the attraction of his salary.)

 

[sturt]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

If they'd do a Gallo Trade, I'm all over it. 

To my mind, that's what it has to be for us to win the trade.

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

The comparison makes me nauseous, but a year ago, the talk about Murray was approximately what the talk is today about Collins.... seems to have so much potential, but he's just not yet put it all together to be all he clearly is capable of being.

Murray is a year older than Collins.

A year from now, who of us would really be surprised in the least if people were speaking of Collins' 22-23 season in the same way that people are here speaking of Murray based on his 21-22 season?

 

This should be, at worst, JC and one FRP asset for Murray.

(I've stopped saying it should be two, having realized, you're only getting 2 years of Murray, so that compromises the attraction of his salary.)

 

It's a fair point, but it appears we will be paying a premium if we intend on acquiring Murray. 

[akay]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

That's why Brogdon is a player you can buy low.  We just have to Marcus Camby this thing...  I don't think he has had anything like Bogi's knee.  An injury that we know will reoccur.  It's the gamble.

But 6'5" 229 is a lot better than 6'4" 180...

Plus I think Brogdon can get more assists. 

For a while, I had thoughts that I would be disappointed if we came away with Brogdon.. but I'm thnking big picture.... does he help Trae...

 

 

Is trading JC for Brogdon buying low? I feel like John should be able to get a better return when considering Malcoms injury history.

This team has lost too many games each of the past 2 seasons to injuries. It would be nice to get someone who can play at least 60 games

For reference, Brogdon plays 50ish games a season, jc 60ish, and Murray nearly 70. 

Murray feels like the most obvious candidate for long term success on the Hawks 

[marco102]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

The comparison makes me nauseous, but a year ago, the talk about Murray was approximately what the talk is today about Collins.... seems to have so much potential, but he's just not yet put it all together to be all he clearly is capable of being.

Murray is a year older than Collins.

A year from now, who of us would really be surprised in the least if people were speaking of Collins' 22-23 season in the same way that people are here speaking of Murray based on his 21-22 season?

 

This should be, at worst, JC and one FRP asset for Murray.

(I've stopped saying it should be two, having realized, you're only getting 2 years of Murray, so that compromises the attraction of his salary.)

 

It is not simply Murray vs Collins.  

It is Murray helps cover more teams weaknesses, perimeter defense, playmaking, another ball handler, than Collins. He also will cost $7 million less this season and $8 million less on following season. 

If other trades are made, the Collins for Murray swap helps the Hawks tremendously with the cap if they are doing a sign and trade for Ayton, which allows then to be even more flexible the next season. 

3 minutes ago, sturt said:

To my mind, that's what it has to be for us to win the trade.

Why do we need to win the trade?

[sturt]

15 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Plus I think Brogdon can get more assists.

Don't think the stats bear that out.

But I don't emphasize that if he's going to be playing beside Trae. It's mainly that he be a capable assist-guy, but someone who otherwise is (a) too much of a threat to double-team Trae constantly, and (b) a defensive force.

Brogdon has been that, and has been that for a long time... proven.

It's just a matter of health.

("Just".... hehe... yeah, I know.)

[akay]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

The comparison makes me nauseous, but a year ago, the talk about Murray was approximately what the talk is today about Collins.... seems to have so much potential, but he's just not yet put it all together to be all he clearly is capable of being.

Murray is a year older than Collins.

A year from now, who of us would really be surprised in the least if people were speaking of Collins' 22-23 season in the same way that people are here speaking of Murray based on his 21-22 season?

 

This should be, at worst, JC and one FRP asset for Murray.

(I've stopped saying it should be two, having realized, you're only getting 2 years of Murray, so that compromises the attraction of his salary.)

 

Trading for Murray now puts us in a position to be top suiters when he signs his max in 2 seasons.

Getting him now gets us potentially 6 years of a Trae x Murray backcourt, and it would instantly become the best in the league. 

I'd pay the 2 Frp top 5 protected, I trust Traes iron man-ness to carry us through regular seasons ensuring the picks aren't good 

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Why do we need to win the trade?

I hesitate to get into it with you... honestly... not our day, my friend.

[bird_dirt]

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

 

 

What about other?  There is an outside chance we could end up in a Jaylen Brown sweepstakes. This is one of the few deals we'd consider JJ or OO in. There are other minor players we could be in the hunt for.

You are really trying to stir up some , aren’t you?

As if fantasies of Ayton, Murray, and KD aren’t enough to turn the Squawk into a frenzy of insanity, you’re just going to casually drop this in the mix?

Really? Why not include Steph, Giannis, and Jokic, too?