Where does the Hawks bench rank?

[JayBirdHawk]

46 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

We potentially have to re-up OO, Bey, and Murray.  I'm not sure ownership is going to pay Capela 21 million to come off the bench.   

We're paying Bogi $18 million to come off the bench. We paid Gallo $20 million to come off the bench. Just saying.

[macdaddy]

21 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We're paying Bogi $18 million to come off the bench. We paid Gallo $20 million to come off the bench. Just saying.

I'd love it if they would pay Capela $20million to come off the bench but i'm just saying that it seems unlikely.

Wings and scorers get paid.  rebounding bench bigs usually don't right?  Andre Drummond appears to be making $3million a year.  Is that right?   Not that he's as good as capela.  

[AHF]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

rebounding bench bigs usually don't right?  Andre Drummond appears to be making $3million a year.  Is that right?   Not that he's as good as capela.  

With bigs, it really depends on whether you are seen as someone who makes a difference to winning or just racks up rebounding numbers.  The latter category don't get paid; the former do.  Most of the former are also starters historically.  CC is a worthy starter but OO is also becoming one as well.  One of them will be coming off the bench as long as they are on the same team.  It will take a special opponent to allow us to play them together (obviously the better OO gets with his jumper the easier that becomes).

[sturt]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

We've mostly if not completely replaced KVon now... anyone disagree?... Bey is that ingredient that had been missing all season.

(Fwiw... I know sometimes I make statements but use a question mark, but in this case, the question mark is sincere... intrigued to know who else is on this island, if anyone.)

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, sturt said:

(Fwiw... I know sometimes I make statements but use a question mark, but in this case, the question mark is sincere... intrigued to know who else is on this island, if anyone.)

IF (always the "if" with the Hawks) AJ is getting enough minutes and has gotten over the rookie slump wall, and if Bey gets at least 16 minutes a game as a reserve, then, yes, we have replace KVon's 15 ppg.  Add in a healthier Bogi and we are in good shape.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

That question sucks.

Or, the premise does... as-if there can only be one. And/but they're all so far away from that in April 2023 that it's not even important to talk about.

[Diesel]

31 minutes ago, sturt said:

(Fwiw... I know sometimes I make statements but use a question mark, but in this case, the question mark is sincere... intrigued to know who else is on this island, if anyone.)

The problem is that Kvon left because of money and he left with Gallo.   We can only look at his play in SacTown and say we have lost a lot of value.. but what was his real value to us?  It's a hard valuation because we have either seen Kev with shooters around like Gallo and Bogi  or with players who can get their own score and create openness like Fox and Sabonis.      In that light, I would say that yeah, we replaced Kev.  DJ replaced Kev.   We never came up with a replacement for Gallo.  That may be Bey. 

 

[sturt]

25 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The problem is that Kvon left because of money and he left with Gallo.   We can only look at his play in SacTown and say we have lost a lot of value.. but what was his real value to us?  It's a hard valuation because we have either seen Kev with shooters around like Gallo and Bogi  or with players who can get their own score and create openness like Fox and Sabonis.      In that light, I would say that yeah, we replaced Kev.  DJ replaced Kev.   We never came up with a replacement for Gallo.  That may be Bey. 

 

That's a legit angle.

I just don't put KVon in the same box as DJ b/c KVon never was anything close to a true PG to begin with... from my orientation, we effectively added a whole new kind  of asset to the starting line-up.

Similarly, I don't immediately put Bey in the same box as Gallo, but I understand why some might. Gallo, obviously, was just an offensive marvel, but defensively was big enough to give you emergency minutes at center. Now that you mention it, though, Bey's tool belt otherwise is similar to Gallo's. He's just a smaller, younger, more mobile player, though.

Me, all along I've considered Jalen to be Gallo's heir apparent... he was/is the logical player to slot-in behind JC just as Gallo was.

But given more thought, I suppose I've come around just now to think Bey's what I'd always projected and wanted Cam to be.

Soooo... from where I sit and if I have to assign who replaced who...

- Jalen is the Gallo replacement

- Bey is the Cam replacement

- DJ replaced no one because we never started a legit PG at SG before

- And... instead of Bey... probably makes more sense to consider AJ a developing version of KVon

 

So all the bellyachin I've done about that KVon trade?

I'm now thinking we potentially didn't make out that bad after all.

Yes, we played about 3/4 of the season at a handicap... Jalen not getting enough competitive minutes (... btw, if you look, though, Nate did play him double-digit minutes quite a bit)... so no legit Gallo replacement in the rotation mix... and... AJ flashed, but you couldn't expect him to produce in the way that KVon was capable of. Our regular season record reflects that.

But if it proves true (we're not there yet, of course) that (1) Jalen's on the cusp of being a legit Gallo replacement... if it proves true (we might be there) that (2) Bey is something like the asset Cam was envisioned... and if it proves true (not there yet) that (3) AJ is a legit KVon replacement...

Then... once you add to that an ASG-quality PG/SG... we've effectively ended up a clear net positive on the court... at the net cost of...

- 60 games of .500-ish performance that plausibly could have been .625-ish based on previous results

- 3 1st round picks

- And 5 2nd round picks

Mind you, for those of you who became extremely irate with Nate (hey, that rhymes!.. I shoulda sold t-shirts), there's also the trade-off that those 60 games of .500-ish performance ended up having everything to do with Quin Snyder now running things.

 

Suddenly...

 

[Diesel]

It takes time for us to grow into our roles. 

I just heard Gilbert Arenas' take on the Boston Celtics and it helped me to realize why they took so long to Gel.  As he said, they have two SFs playing PF and SG. 

We have an OGs playing  SG.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Peoriabird]

Regular season is over and now we can assess the bench...Who was wrong about the bench???  Come on now and be a man about and admit you were wrong!  @macdaddy lol!

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Regular season is over and now we can assess the bench...Who was wrong about the bench???  Come on now and be a man about and admit you were wrong!  @macdaddy lol!

The bench struggled for the first part of the season or since Quin.

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Regular season is over and now we can assess the bench...Who was wrong about the bench???  Come on now and be a man about and admit you were wrong!  @macdaddy lol!

Wrong about what?  Our bench absolutely sucked until we got Bey.   Quin helped some too. 

[Peoriabird]

@JayBirdHawk So did Trae but you knew things would get better.  The thread was basically asking whether our bench was talented enough and it was point out on several different occasion that is was which was met with resistance by certain posters!

[Peoriabird]

So Bey makes everybody better on the bench and not Okungwu?  What about when Bey starts, he still makes them better?

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So Bey makes everybody better on the bench and not Okungwu?  What about when Bey starts, he still makes them better?

Bogi missed 22 games, The Holidaze we unproductive, the relative youth of AJ and JJ (plus Nate) showed.  OO was steady and improving.

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

@JayBirdHawk So did Trae but you knew things would get better.  The thread was basically asking whether our bench was talented enough and it was point out on several different occasion that is was which was met with resistance by certain posters!

Trae has a proven track record where he tends to start slowly then pick it up.

[REHawksFan]

FYI:

Bench rankings (Pre-Quin):

• 22nd in pts per game
• 5th in FG%
• 7th in 3pt FG%
• 21st in Reb/game
• 27th in Ast/game
• 24th in Steals/game
• 20th in Blocks/game
• 16th in point differential

Bench rankings (Post-Quin):

• 2nd in pts per game
• 1st in FG%
• 4th in 3pt FG%
• 3rd in Reb/game
• 24th in Ast/game
• 11th in Steals/game
• 2nd in Blocks/game
• 2nd in point differential

That's fairly dramatic improvement across the board since Q took over.  Hard to see any of the Pre-Q numbers and say the bench was any good.  Hard to argue any of the Post-Q numbers aren't ELITE.  My guess is the reasoning is Q's willingness to play JJ, Bogi being healthy, natural development of AJ, and addition of Bey.  

[Peoriabird]

Again the question was about whether trades should be made to improve the bench not whether the bench was going to be good with key player temporarily out.  Some people thought that the bench lack talent which translates into i don't believe in JJ, AJ, Or Okungku.  Some also stated that Trae and Murray would not me staggered to cover all of the point guard minutes when healthy  They were wrong on all accounts period..So the answer is a resound yes, the bench is top 10 now that everyone is healthy