Defense

[StonedDogs]

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I've been a fan of Ime Udoka work. Quality offensive scheme which adjust to the personnel with great defensive schemes that don't break the integrity of the defense. 

 

Guys like MDA are old and washed. He might give us a good 60 games but after that, he would be looking washed and done needing to go back to retirement 

Couldn't have said all of that any better. I cant understand the love this place has for MDA. 

[theheroatl]

Until we take adding defensive players like GSW had Igoudala and Draymond, I can't take this team seriously.

I love that we get buckets but that only gets you so far when you let teams get back in the game in the 3rd and 4th quarters (ala Charlotte with Rozier).

I'm disappointed Landry didn't pursue Thybulle, Caruso, and even Simmons to add 1-2 super plus defenders.

We don't need bench scoring, we don't need scoring in general. The league is scoring more overall this year. We NEED DEFENSE!

[macdaddy]

3 hours ago, theheroatl said:

Until we take adding defensive players like GSW had Igoudala and Draymond, I can't take this team seriously.

I love that we get buckets but that only gets you so far when you let teams get back in the game in the 3rd and 4th quarters (ala Charlotte with Rozier).

I'm disappointed Landry didn't pursue Thybulle, Caruso, and even Simmons to add 1-2 super plus defenders.

We don't need bench scoring, we don't need scoring in general. The league is scoring more overall this year. We NEED DEFENSE!

Caruso and Simmons didn't move for a reason though.   Isn't Bey better than Thybulle? 

[shakes]

14 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Caruso and Simmons didn't move for a reason though.   Isn't Bey better than Thybulle? 

you're better than Thybulle.    Guy is useless on offense and the most overrated defensive player in the NBA.   His whole defensive scheme is to get beat by his man and then try and block or knock the ball away from behind.

Edited February 10, 2023 by shakes

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

His whole defensive scheme is to get beat by his man and then try and block or knock the ball away from behind.

I pointed out this exact same thing.....and he doesn't do enough on defense to make up for his brutal offense.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Isn't Bey better than Thybulle? 

To me, Bey was the 3rd best Piston behind Cade and Bojan. He’s a baller, much more well rounded and better than Thybulle.

Saddiq can get his own shot. He’s a 2 way dude.

 

One thing though that is a weakness in Saddiq’s game to me is launching too many 3’s. Although I’m not sure if that because he was on the Pistons and they stunk and he just kept launching or what, he needs to be a bit more efficient here.

Bey is a lot better than Thy to me.

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, theheroatl said:

We NEED DEFENSE!

Do you watch Piston games? Saddiq D’s up. In fact I compared him to a Draymond like small forward in my draft analysis of him in 2020. Bey is a 2 way dog, why get a one way guy is Thybulle instead. Thy can’t shoot anything, him and Ben screw up offensive schemes with their inability to shoot the ball.

[sturt]

Thybulle plays passing lanes about as well as anyone I've ever seen.

That's all.

Carry on.

[sturt]

 

Would love love love to pick up Stanley, but fairly confident he's going to have offers from teams that actually assure him he'll have a rotation spot... which isn't something we can do.

But yeah, if it came down that ATL would be an option to him, then I'm ready to part ways with Vit or Tyrese, in view of the post season defensive asset (... hence my decision that this was the most appropriate thread for this post...) he could be to us.

[sturt]

Seeing some speculation that Stanley will be heading up I-35 a few hours to essentially be DFS's replacement there. Makes too much sense. Oh well.

[sturt]

22 minutes ago, sturt said:

Seeing some speculation that Stanley will be heading up I-35 a few hours to essentially be DFS's replacement there. Makes too much sense. Oh well.

Hold them horses... er... Mavericks...

 

 

So, how bout we throw our remaining $1.6m under the LT line at Stanley, and... since we have our full MLE anyhow... add in to the offer a considerable incentive bonus based on whether we win the EC championship.

Sorry, Tyrese. Sorry, Vit. One of you have to go... the time is now, and experience counts.

 

[Diesel]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:19 AM, NBASupes said:

Guys like MDA are old and washed. He might give us a good 60 games but after that, he would be looking washed and done needing to go back to retirement 

I wonder what your basis for this statement is???  I mean, it really has none. 

2016-17	65	HOU	NBA	82	55	27	.671	14.0	2		11	6	5	.545
2017-18	66	HOU	NBA	82	65	17	.793	24.0	1		17	11	6	.647
2018-19	67	HOU	NBA	82	53	29	.646	12.0	1		11	6	5	.545
2019-20	68	HOU	NBA	72	44	28	.611	8.0	1		12	5	7	.417

 

MDA's coaching record as you say...   67%, 79%, 64%, and 61% winning percentage.   And that last year was with James Harden and Russell Westbrook. 

Fact of the matter is MDA has mastered working with a 2 PG system.   None of these other guys has that on their resume. 

Bless Udoka's Heart, but he coached 1 Year and has a 62% winning percentage and right now, his assistant coach is showing that he could win just as easily as Udoka did.   And so is his other assistant.

MDA is washed??  How do you get to that conclusion...

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

26 minutes ago, sturt said:

Hold them horses... er... Mavericks...

 

 

So, how bout we throw our remaining $1.6m under the LT line at Stanley, and... since we have our full MLE anyhow... add in to the offer a considerable incentive bonus based on whether we win the EC championship.

Sorry, Tyrese. Sorry, Vit. One of you have to go... the time is now, and experience counts.

 

Hawks aren’t going to go over the Luxury Tax for StanJo.  $1 million of the $1.6 is reserved for incentives for DJ and CC.

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I wonder what your basis for this statement is???  I mean, it really has none. 

2016-17	65	HOU	NBA	82	55	27	.671	14.0	2		11	6	5	.545
2017-18	66	HOU	NBA	82	65	17	.793	24.0	1		17	11	6	.647
2018-19	67	HOU	NBA	82	53	29	.646	12.0	1		11	6	5	.545
2019-20	68	HOU	NBA	72	44	28	.611	8.0	1		12	5	7	.417

 

MDA's coaching record as you say...   67%, 79%, 64%, and 61% winning percentage.   And that last year was with James Harden and Russell Westbrook. 

Fact of the matter is MDA has mastered working with a 2 PG system.   None of these other guys has that on their resume. 

Bless Udoka's Heart, but he coached 1 Year and has a 62% winning percentage and right now, his assistant coach is showing that he could win just as easily as Udoka did.   And so is his other assistant.

MDA is washed??  How do you get to that conclusion...

 

 

I had season tickets. MDA was terrible that season. They were winning games in spite of him. He just was tired. Those Rockets had elite players like CP3 and Harden. No disrespect to us but no one on this team is elite overall.

[sturt]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Hawks aren’t going to go over the Luxury Tax for StanJo. 

 

$1 million of the $1.6 is reserved for incentives for DJ and CC.

 

Typical Jay, you want to debate what will  happen. Typical me, most of the time unless I explicitly say otherwise, I'm debating what should.

 

I don't believe my proposal will happen, but since your heart is set on asserting it's not even a possibility, okay, let's take your approach just for fun.

 

1. CC cannot earn two of his unlikely incentives b/c they're based on playing 2000 minutes. And I've done the math. He'd have to make 72% of his remaining likely free throws if he plays all 25 remaining games. I know you know I know he's hit something like 70% of a recent stretch, and that's great, but that's still falling short, not to mention, it's hardly likely even that 70% will be sustained.

 

2. DJ probably has last year's guards ahead of him for all-defense, and even after that there are others like FVV to catapult. Possible? Can't rule it out, but it would take a whirlwind of defensive highlights in the remaining 25 games, imo. My guess, if anyone cares? About 20-25%.

 

DJ almost has a lock on the $500k for hitting 125 3's, tho. So, will grant that one, of course. So, busted, right? No way it can get done.

 

Wrong. Here's what you're missing in that analysis.

 

As you know, the tax is based on what you actually paid out.

We're at $1,633,260 of space if we finished the year just with the 15 we now have.

Say you give Stanley a contract that pays him $1.5m (smidgen less than the $1.6m) for all the remaining games, and you cut Vit, who still had 25 games x $19,067 per game coming to him (about $475k)... that's $1.025m net against that $1,633,260... leaving you with more than enough room to pay out DJ's $500k bonus.

 

EDIT: I'm wrong. Vit's salary is guaranteed, so that eliminates the premise that his remaining salary could be used to fund DJ's bonus.

 

 

"Yeah, but what about you suggesting we insert that bonus, and use MLE to fund it?"

 

Glad you asked.

Adding in the bonus for sweetener to beat DAL and maybe be competitive with other offers... the bonus as written has us as one of 4 possibly going to the NBA Finals... that, even by most strict definition, qualifies the team as "contenders"... which, of course, was Antony P. Ressler's standard for paying tax.

 

Wait. Let me guess. Your response will be, "Well, it's just not happening. You can't rely on what Ressler said, and there's still that sliver of a chance that DJ makes the all-defensive team, and Ressler's not going to take that risk."

That's arguing against a strawman. I said straight-up I do not believe my proposal will happen. The only reason I've engaged the assertion is to show that it might not happen, but that's not to say it can't, and (double-negative alert) not to say that it's not reasonable for it to happen.

[sturt]

Oh wow.

Really?

You sure???

 

 

[MarylandHawk]

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I had season tickets. MDA was terrible that season. They were winning games in spite of him. He just was tired. Those Rockets had elite players like CP3 and Harden. No disrespect to us but no one on this team is elite overall.

Umm excuse me?  CP3 and Harden were elite then but Trae and Murray aren’t now?  

[NBASupes]

6 hours ago, MarylandHawk said:

Umm excuse me?  CP3 and Harden were elite then but Trae and Murray aren’t now?  

No. Not their level. Harden was an MVP front runner back then. CP3 was still elite. These two can't even make the all star game consistently 

[NBASupes]

6 hours ago, MarylandHawk said:

Umm excuse me?  CP3 and Harden were elite then but Trae and Murray aren’t now?  

This is a really bad post. CP3 and Harden played 30 years combined 22 combined All Stars. Trae and Murray 9 years, 3 all stars. Come on man.

 

That's 74% to 33% 

Edited February 13, 2023 by NBASupes

[MarylandHawk]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

This is a really bad post. CP3 and Harden played 30 years combined 22 combined All Stars. Trae and Murray 9 years, 3 all stars. Come on man.

 

That's 74% to 33% 

What has me flabbergasted is that if those guys were considered elite the year that old boy played with them and you are comparing those years to what Trae and Murray are doing this year, then that would mean they are elite too. Or conversely, Harden and Paul were not elite those particular years either.  Splitting hairs here, just trying to understand the logic. For the record I think Paul and Harden have elite skill sets and so do Trae and Dejounte.