Defense

[NBASupes]

52 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

What has me flabbergasted is that if those guys were considered elite the year that old boy played with them and you are comparing those years to what Trae and Murray are doing this year, then that would mean they are elite too. Or conversely, Harden and Paul were not elite those particular years either.  Splitting hairs here, just trying to understand the logic.

No. You just flat out wrong.

Edited February 13, 2023 by NBASupes

[MarylandHawk]

17 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

No. You just flat out wrong.

That’s cool. 

[theheroatl]

On 2/1/2023 at 6:56 AM, theheroatl said:

 

Looking at the game log, there are some really average to slightly above average and even some mediocre teams dragging our defensive PPG down. 

 

Sigh…. Something is clearly wrong with the big picture. Most of the opponent drives in the paint it looks like we have no clue.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So what's the excuse in this Hornets game so far?  It's not Trae that's getting lit up on defense.  He's actually playing sound defense and isn't getting caught out of position.

But I know who is . . .

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So what's the excuse in this Hornets game so far?  It's not Trae that's getting lit up on defense.  He's actually playing sound defense and isn't getting caught out of position.

But I know who is . . .

[theheroatl]

#1 We have no coaching plan for defense

#2 We have gaping holes in defensive playing ability across the board.

We are in the bottom 3rd of defense for years now. And we have supposed defensive stars in Capela and Murray.

Hunter is not a defensive star. His advanced stats say this.

[SalvorMallow]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

No. You just flat out wrong.

Yeah, it's really hard to argue that Murray and Trae are at the same level as CP3 and Harden.

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So what's the excuse in this Hornets game so far?  It's not Trae that's getting lit up on defense.  He's actually playing sound defense and isn't getting caught out of position.

But I know who is . . .

Bruh got his ass lit the f*** up. He was the culprit.

[sturt]

I've been all over the idea of a Stanley Johnson acquisition b/c he's genuinely been having a decent year on both ends of the floor. He's so much more likely to get signed by a team that can give him a legit promise of PT, but if not, then he'd be quite a bonus gift to the current roster. No, he's not going to play a lot, but on a night like tonight when you'd like to have some other weapon to deploy to slow down the opposition's perimeter offense, he'd be valuable.

That said.

If not Johnson.... got reminded tonight that there are two former defensive-ace Hawks that are very much available, one of which is tearing up G-League if I understand correctly, and the other plausibly ready to return from his major knee injury last March.

Not going to be able to get both for LT reasons, but arguably can get one.

Kris Dunn, who rarely got on the floor in his one season in ATL, but remains a defensive juggernaut.

And De'Andre Bembry, who was the hot property last season when Brooklyn let him go, and Milwaukee scooped him up.

If he's healthy, I'd probably prefer Bembry, because he's actually been a recent decent force for a contending team. But then again, Dunn's superior to Bembry defensively, which is saying something. He's also found his perimeter stroke in G-League, canning 38% from the arc on about 70-is attempts.

 

Agreed, the team's fortunes won't ride on who's the 14th player on the 15 man roster. The first 8 players are either going to carry this team, or they're not. But if they do turn on some after burners at some point in these last 24 games, you'd sure like to have whatever solid defenders sitting on your bench that you can deploy come post season. Neither Vit nor Tyrese do that for you, and so, they're expendable.

 

[Diesel]

16 hours ago, NBASupes said:

This is a really bad post. CP3 and Harden played 30 years combined 22 combined All Stars. Trae and Murray 9 years, 3 all stars. Come on man.

 

That's 74% to 33% 

I think that we see this year that the "all star" appearance is BS.   Should never be used for comparison purposes.   You can be a fan favorite and get voted into the allstar game  Hello Klay  or you can be a good guy amoungst players and coaches and get in.... Hello DeMar.  Hello Jrue. 

So that's not relevant. 

But for you to look at a guy averaging 27/10.. and say that he's not elite is laughable.     Especially since, you can't find another player averaging 27/10.    That is the definition of Elite.

 

 

[sturt]

9 hours ago, sturt said:

Kris Dunn, who rarely got on the floor in his one season in ATL, but remains a defensive juggernaut.

And De'Andre Bembry, who was the hot property last season when Brooklyn let him go, and Milwaukee scooped him up.

If he's healthy, I'd probably prefer Bembry, because he's actually been a recent decent force for a contending team. But then again, Dunn's superior to Bembry defensively, which is saying something. He's also found his perimeter stroke in G-League, canning 38% from the arc on about 70-is attempts.

 

Agreed, the team's fortunes won't ride on who's the 14th player on the 15 man roster. The first 8 players are either going to carry this team, or they're not. But if they do turn on some after burners at some point in these last 24 games, you'd sure like to have whatever solid defenders sitting on your bench that you can deploy come post season. Neither Vit nor Tyrese do that for you, and so, they're expendable.

 

You like Gary Payton II? The current world champs' front office thinks he was so pivotal to their trophy that they just went out and reacquired him, of course.

What if the Hawks had that kind of option sitting on their bench, able to come in and neutralize a number of the bombs the Hornets et al are successfully launching, while also oh-by-the-way, being a better offensive weapon overall than the esteemed Payton II?

Here's what both players accumulated stats-wise from age 24 to 27... which I'll just tell ya, suggests the best could very well be yet to come for Kris Dunn and whatever team scoops him up out of G-League...

 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

 

You like Gary Payton II? The current world champs' front office thinks he was so pivotal to their trophy that they just went out and reacquired him, of course.

What if the Hawks had that kind of option sitting on their bench, able to come in and neutralize a number of the bombs the Hornets et al are successfully launching, while also oh-by-the-way, being a better offensive weapon overall than the esteemed Payton II?

Here's what both players accumulated stats-wise from age 24 to 27... which I'll just tell ya, suggests the best could very well be yet to come for Kris Dunn and whatever team scoops him up out of G-League...

 

Gary Payton is elite off the ball offensively with the Warriors. Dunn is bad offensively with everyone outside of the G-league. He's an AAAA player like we call in baseball. Excellent at a tier below the show but not good enough for the show.

[sturt]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Gary Payton is elite off the ball offensively with the Warriors. Dunn is bad offensively with everyone outside of the G-league. He's an AAAA player like we call in baseball. Excellent at a tier below the show but not good enough for the show.

Dunn... a former all-defensive team member... has never had a G-League or NBA season like he's having right now. Sure, he was bad. Sure, too, the player I'm drawing a comparison to, also, was bad. Equally so, by virtue of those stats just provided.

 

Ya know, Supes, sometimes a player just emerges, even in his later 20s. It happens.

Dunn's hitting on 39% of his 3s. He's dishing out almost 6 assists per game at a 2.5/1 ast/to ratio.

Payton's "elite off the ball" assessment was what No One said about Payton when he was Dunn's current age (27).

 

But you think it's a better option to hold on to Tyrese or Vit.

Okay then.

[sturt]

13 hours ago, theheroatl said:

#1 We have no coaching plan for defense

I'm old enough to remember when it was said that Mike Longabardi's arrival was going to be a difference maker in this regard.

And, statistically, we're better, no question.

But the massacre that Charlotte has been able to inflict on us twice in the last month--scoring 122, then 144--rightfully summons up severe concern. Even having replaced a defensive-average-at-best KVon in the starting line-up with a defensive-plus-caliber DJ, we need more. We need a secret weapon somewhere on the bench for such occasions that can be deployed when the other team is taking advantage in grotesque ways.

I don't actually think it's that we "have no plan," but that our artillery on the perimeter, other than Murray, is lacking. It's not just that we have a lack of average defensive players, it's that we have a stable of players that lean toward being, or outright are, inferior defensive players. DJ's not enough, just like Delon last season wasn't enough.

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Dunn... a former all-defensive team member... has never had a G-League or NBA season like he's having right now. Sure, he was bad. Sure, too, the player I'm drawing a comparison to, also, was bad. Equally so, by virtue of those stats just provided.

 

Ya know, Supes, sometimes a player just emerges, even in his later 20s. It happens.

Dunn's hitting on 39% of his 3s. He's dishing out almost 6 assists per game at a 2.5/1 ast/to ratio.

Payton's "elite off the ball" assessment was what No One said about Payton when he was Dunn's current age (27).

 

But you think it's a better option to hold on to Tyrese or Vit.

Okay then.

You really think Dunn will play good offensively in a limited role for any NBA team based on what you currently see?

[JayBirdHawk]

Last night's defensive effort consisted of slow rotation and closeouts. No communication on switches and screens, no ball pressure and on and on and on.

 

 

 

 

[sturt]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

You really think Dunn will play good offensively in a limited role for any NBA team based on what you currently see?

I don't know. But I don't dismiss it because, again, I've seen Gary Payton II... and others... at this age or thereabouts... emerge. In this case, even if you just get an adequate Dunn offensively, much like Delon, you get a significant weapon to use as occasion arises.

[NBASupes]

Just now, sturt said:

I don't know. But I don't dismiss it because, again, I've seen Gary Payton II... and others... at this age or thereabouts... emerge. In this case, even if you just get an adequate Dunn offensively, much like Delon, you get a significant weapon to use as occasion arises.

I am curious to say the least 

[sturt]

I'll tell you (again) what I do  know... I sure as hell don't look at Tyrese or Vit as having any benefit for the balance of this season. And neither are special enough that you say to yourself, "Oh, no... we can't let him get out of our grasp.")

 

[sturt]

From a month ago... and things remain steady as there's been no fall-off...

(I've clipped and screenshot a section, but you might wanna see the link and Dunn's game winner steal in a Elam ending OT.)

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/go-gos-kris-dunn-hoping-journey-leads-back-nba-right-way

 

 

 

 

 

Aside: Here's what I want... longer post to come eventually, on this you can be certain ...

• NBA replaces the 4 x 12 minute periods with 5 x 9 minute periods, plus an Elam ending for every game (which essentially replaces those other 3 minutes)
• Every player is limited to playing in 4 of the 5 periods... though, all are available for the Elam ending