After the Trade Dust....Current roster

[Spud2nique]

7 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

DeAndre Hunter, AJ Griffin, Saddiq Bey,

We have a logjam here.

I have as of now:

Bey/Griffin/Hunter

But Griff is the rookie and will probably be the best of the 3 when it’s all said and done. To me though, Bey is a more complete player than Hunter BUT, he should still be brought off the bench not to disrupt our chemistry.

But if there is a draft and they are both in it, I take Bey. My thing with Bey is he plays with emotion and MUCH more physicality than Dre. Dre has been coming on of late though. Should be nice for us though. 

[Final_quest]

Everyone seems focused on who gets minutes now with at least two rotation players added.  Take a minute to think about what this does for our roster construction for the next couple years. 

With Saddiq Bey, AJ, and Garrison you can move Bogi but you can even consider moving Hunter.  If we make a play for Embiid, it hurts us a lot less right now if they want Hunter as part of that package.  We have more bargaining chips teams want in deals.  No one wanted Jhol or Kaminsky.  We can afford to move a couple guys and now we already have a replacement on the roster. 

It's a log jam at the moment, but going forward we have flexibility.    

[NBASupes]

31 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Everyone seems focused on who gets minutes now with at least two rotation players added.  Take a minute to think about what this does for our roster construction for the next couple years. 

With Saddiq Bey, AJ, and Garrison you can move Bogi but you can even consider moving Hunter.  If we make a play for Embiid, it hurts us a lot less right now if they want Hunter as part of that package.  We have more bargaining chips teams want in deals.  No one wanted Jhol or Kaminsky.  We can afford to move a couple guys and now we already have a replacement on the roster. 

It's a log jam at the moment, but going forward we have flexibility.    

Yes to the Bogi part. Hell no to the Hunter part. What this trade does is gives us reliable options if Capela or OO is out or Hunter is out when we had no one who could fill those gaps for us on the roster. Now we do. Still, Bruno or Bey aren't replacing Capela or Hunter. They are just reasonable depth which we lack this year. Look at it like when we had Gallo and Wright. Those were reasonable depth but we wasn't starting either outside of injuries. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by NBASupes

[Final_quest]

29 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Yes to the Bogi part. Hell no to the Hunter part. 

Phoenix didn't want to give up Bridges for Durant either.  Have to think about what you have to gain sometimes.  

[gurpilo]

Matthews give us a shooter, cheap shooter capable to replace Bogi

Bey gives you a backup forward, we were empty there, fills a hole.

Bey is a legit backup SF and PF, Matthews is a capable backup SF, AJ is a capable backup SG and SF. Finnally we hace legit rotation wings.

Getting rid of Bogi might be salary dump for finnancial flexibility or part of the package for starting unit upgrade. In that package I think they are considering Bogi, Capela, JC, even JJ but not Hunter.

Bey fills a hole, does not make Hunter expendable.

Going forward I think we are relying on Trae/DJM/AJ/Matthews/Hunter/Bey as the rotation at Pg/SG/SF,  I think Bogi might be the odd man out

Edited February 10, 2023 by gurpilo

[NBASupes]

18 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Phoenix didn't want to give up Bridges for Durant either.  Have to think about what you have to gain sometimes.  

Atlanta can't afford to lose a starting big wing. 

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

Matthews give us a shooter, cheap shooter capable to replace Bogi

Bey gives you a backup forward, we were empty there, fills a hole.

Bey is a legit backup SF and PF, Matthews is a capable backup SF, AJ is a capable backup SG and SF. Finnally we hace legit rotation wings.

Getting rid of Bogi might be salary dump for finnancial flexibility or part of the package for starting unit upgrade. In that package I think they are considering Bogi, Capela, JC, even JJ but not Hunter.

Bey fills a hole, does not make Hunter expendable.

Going forward I think we are relying on Trae/DJM/AJ/Matthews/Hunter/Bey as the rotation at Pg/SG/SF,  I think Bogi might be the odd man out

I can't say he will replace Bogi who can PDS at a very high level but he gives a cheaper player who can do a lot of positive things on both ends as a rotational piece. He makes Bogi expendable and as of before the trade, he was not.

Edited February 10, 2023 by NBASupes

[Final_quest]

39 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Atlanta can't afford to lose a starting big wing. 

We went 27-11 starting Solomon Jones.  If Philly only trades Embiid with Hunter in the package, he's gone.  

[sturt]

Mathews is a one trick pony, and that one trick has been on the decline already in his brief career. He's coming to us with some things to prove, and not that likely to get a lot of chance to prove anything. He more or less gives you the one thing that JDay may have given you in a pinch, but has the upside that, if he were to reassert himself as money from the perimeter, you've got him longer term at that cheap price.

Bruno, imo, brings more of what we need than what Frank did (... though I gotta say, I would have felt fine about keeping Frank b/c as long as he stays healthy--which was always my primary concern--he's a seasoned swiss army knife big which would've come in handy in post season imo). As some have mentioned, Bruno's become a decent defensive/rebounding force down low now that he's gotten more opportunity in BOS and especially HOU. Icing on that cake, can pencil Bruno in as the 5th big for multiple seasons for the cost of NBA peanuts, even if he continues to mature and improve.

Then, too, we saved something in the neighborhood of $3m on this year's payroll.

So we won that trade just looking at the current assets, but.... notably, we had to send HOU two 2nds to make this deal, oh by the way. That would make sense if you think about the fact GSW paid us $3m for one 2nd in recent history, and if you consider the delta between the aggregate talent received vs. the talent going out, thus the additional 2nd.

[NBASupes]

16 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

We went 27-11 starting Solomon Jones.  If Philly only trades Embiid with Hunter in the package, he's gone.  

Hill and no, this is a bad post. Ya'll gotta stop using the COVID spedup season as a point of reference. It shows low BBIQ. Teams couldn't adjust as they had no prep time. That's why we had scrub lineups and were winning games but these days, if we miss one starter, we are done. That season trends was more questionable than the bubble due to the amount of games in such a short period of time 

[Diesel]

My feeling is (based on Nate's past)... that Nate will not quickly add Bey to the rotation. 

I also don't know if we're using AJ as a 2 or a 3.  I think it's a 2. 

Overall, I think the biggest hit may be AJ and Trae...

Trae because he needs rest.   AJ because he's younger. 

  We start off with  Trae, DJ, Hunter, JC, CC   That's about a 6 to 8 minute unit.

We sub out Trae for either Bogi or AJ...  That's 4 minutes.

Trae comes back in for DJ to Cover the last 2 minutes of the quater.   We usually sub Hunter, JC, and CC with AJ, JJ, OO.

Starting the Next quarter, we may have Trae, Bogi, AJ, JJ, and OO for about 2 minutes.   DJ comes back for Trae.... and he runs the second unit for about 4-6 minutes.

This has been our I-robot rotation.

IF Bey works his way into our lineup...  He will take some of the burden off of AJ or Bogi  or...DJ will play more to spell Trae.

But for now, I don't see Bey getting a lot of playing time unless he comes in and Delon it. 

But we did need an adequate BU for Hunter who can play defense.   Moreover, I think Hunter may see more time at the 4. 

 

[sturt]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Nate will not quickly add Bey to the rotation. 

Define "quickly."

I'm hopeful if not expectant to see BogBog's minutes dip significantly within the next 5-6 games. By this time next month, I anticipate Bey getting more minutes than BogBog routinely, largely out of a motivation to have BogBog as fresh as possible for post season.

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

Define "quickly."

I'm hopeful if not expectant to see BogBog's minutes dip significantly within the next 5-6 games. By this time next month, I anticipate Bey getting more minutes than BogBog routinely, largely out of a motivation to have BogBog as fresh as possible for post season.

I think the vision is still that BogBog is our best three ball shooter and a secondary ball handler.   I see Bey as being a repeat of Hunter but not as good (??).   The thing is AJ may be our best three ball shooter but his position is fluid.  Having Hunter and maybe Bey being able to jump from the three to the 4 helps with the 4 position and it will hurt JJ's minutes. 

So Quickly.. could be weeks.   IN the past, we have seen him Not play Favors at all.   Play Knox because players were injured... and Hold out Delon.   I think Bey is more for the Next coach to use and for Nate to use in case of an emergency or in case of an emergence. 

 

[Hawkmoor]

lmao

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Hill and no, this is a bad post. Ya'll gotta stop using the COVID spedup season as a point of reference. It shows low BBIQ. Teams couldn't adjust as they had no prep time. That's why we had scrub lineups and were winning games but these days, if we miss one starter, we are done. That season trends was more questionable than the bubble due to the amount of games in such a short period of time 

Hunter or bust is such a crazy take to me, especially if it means not getting Embiid.

[sturt]

57 minutes ago, Diesel said:

IN the past, we have seen him Not play Favors at all. 

No one was a bigger advocate of adding Favors than muah, so no one wanted more to see Favors play than muah.

But even I have to be fair and acknowledge, Capela returned 1 game after Favors got signed... so, the opportunity just never really emerged.

57 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Hold out Delon

Yes, that happened. And Nate got that one wrong. But key to this conversation... for a short while it happened. By the end of the season, that was past tense. And by post season, no one was getting more consistent praise from Nate.

Nate disappoints me that he doesn't try to use more of his bench than he does, but on the other hand, you'd think AJ and JJ never ever get on the floor if one believes the normal schtick found on this forum. Younger players can and do earn minutes with Nate.

57 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I think Bey is more for the Next coach to use and for Nate to use in case of an emergency or in case of an emergence. 

I hope you aren't going to dig-in on this idea, because I've rarely read anything from you that I would consider to be more misguided, truly. Sure, he played for DET, but even if you just average 30-ish minutes a game and start 75%-ish of all games in DET... that's still an NBA team, and given the rest of his stats, it would be absurd to dismiss him as you do here.

57 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I think the vision is still that BogBog is our best three ball shooter and a secondary ball handler.   I see Bey as being a repeat of Hunter but not as good (??).   The thing is AJ may be our best three ball shooter but his position is fluid.  Having Hunter and maybe Bey being able to jump from the three to the 4 helps with the 4 position and it will hurt JJ's minutes. 

Agree with all of that, though I'd suggest Bey's body frame is more like a SF who gets some PF minutes, and AJ's is more like an everyday NBA SG who gets some SF minutes.

Whose minutes will be hurt most?

I agree JJ's may be, but I'll stick with BogBog's for my answer. Ultimately, though it will be distributed and shared among anyone who isn't a PG or a C or PF/C, imo.

 

 

 

 

[Diesel]

Yeah Sturt, 

I only know what I know based on what I have seen when he plays us.   I don't regular Detroit games.   So i went to see what their insiders were saying about him....

He's valued.   I don't buy into a lot of that predraft stuff... I like what is said after people have seen him play.   He's valued.   I get the feeling that he was like our own Hunter...  A lot of people talked about his shortcomings on the court but never thought they he'd be traded.  Similar to our community, they have a lot of critical people who really do value Bey but are critical of him at the same time.  
My take is that he's a young fella and could easily push for Hunter's starting job.  Since we're cheap.. I can see us using Dre' as a trade piece for somebody like KAT or Embiid. 

Trying to envision:

Trae, DJ, Bey, KAT, CC...

or if he forces his way...

Trae, DJ, Bey, JC, Embiid.

 

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

Hunter or bust is such a crazy take to me, especially if it means not getting Embiid.

Hunter is not a different maker for Embiid but considering you would be trading a difference maker to get Joel, Hunter is someone that needs to stay more than go.

[h4wkfan]

I had some spare time so - went ahead and looked at some line-up combos this year. There are few things I'd love to see us do - and also NEVER do again. Hopefully someone in the analytics department has delivered the message to Nate, he listens and the additional depth of Bey + Matthews will give us flexibility to maximize talent/fits. According to "Cleaning the Glass" ...

• Our starters are not the problem. 12.4 +/- when on the court together. It's when Nate has to put the bench out there / not recognize the flow of the game / ride the hot hand when things fall apart. The additions @ the deadline have improved our depth to what I think could quickly turn into a strength ... so long as iRobot learns.
• BOGI SHOULD NEVER PLAY NEXT TO TRAE + DEJOUNTE AT THE SAME TIME. All caps for effect. In 439 possessions - that pairing is a solid -14.8.
• AJ should be limited in who he is paired with - particularly as a SG. In 412 possessions as a SG, we are -18.8. However, when he is in a role where he is not creating offense - the team seems to perform better. I honestly think at this stage in his career he is not a creator. I really think he should model his game after Klay. 
• Bogi + AJ is actually a nice pairing. We should ride that combo off the bench more often. They are +4.6 in 874 possessions. This is my hang up with how Saddiq fits since we kept Bogi. Bey is most effective as a SF. So you either put him in his worse position or you take away AJ's minutes. Unless Nate will play Bogi less. Not betting on it.
• I'd honestly play more combos with Bey @ SF and DH @ PF and limit JJ's minutes. I know he needs to develop. But we are a fringe playoff team, and when JJ is on the court the hawks are -4.8 and +.8 with him off. A 5 point swing to a .500 team.
• With the addition of Bey, hopefully we see more Dre at PF. In 2298 possessions at SF he is a +0.9. In 782 possessions at PF we are +2.8. Hoping the continued development of AJ + addition of Bey let's us see more of him in this role - even if it means squeezing JJ out (which for a team looking for playoffs ... JJ probably should play less). 
• You know what line-ups we really should see more? Very small sample sizes, but the results speak for themselves. The fits also make sense ...
  • Trae - AJ - Hunter - JC - Cap --> 28 Possessions + 36.4 (151.4 OffRtg - 108.8 DefRtg)
  • Trae - DJ - AJ - Hunter - Cap --> 37 Possessions +42.5 (117.9 OffRtg - 81.5 Def Rtg)
  • And you know what line-up I'd really like to see added to this list? Trae + AJ + Bey + Hunter + Cap

 

With the additions, riding the hot hand/recognizing the flow of the game and making some simple line-up tweaks ... I see no reason this team shouldn't end up a top 6 seed this year. Big if's though ... 

 

For his first deadline - I think Landry nailed it. 

[sturt]

16 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

Bogi + AJ is actually a nice pairing. We should ride that combo off the bench more often. They are +4.6 in 874 possessions. This is my hang up with how Saddiq fits since we kept Bogi. Bey is most effective as a SF. So you either put him in his worse position or you take away AJ's minutes. Unless Nate will play Bogi less. Not betting on it.

 

Oh. I am.

30 yr old on bad knees playing more 30+ minute games than 20-29?

Nate will play BogBog 22-ish minutes a game the rest of the regular season, imo. Think he's averaging right at 30. Bey gives Nate that option.