Quin Snyder - Additions/now CHANGES to the Coaching Staff

[kg01]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

He's not called Angel Quin for nuttin.

Nah, there's only one dude that calls him that but he's a little loony. 

[sturt]

One dude calls him that directly and explicitly.

 

Virtually all of the Squawk calls him that implicitly.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

@Diesel

But before addressing what the Hawks might do over the next several weeks, it’s important to start with this question: Who’s in charge? 

It has been widely believed Snyder would not have come to Atlanta without ultimate control over the roster, effectively above general manager Landry Fields, who is young and operating without the guidance of former executive Travis Schlenk for the first time.

Snyder emphatically denies that. He maintains he is merely part of the Hawks’ “collaborative process,” which has become the organizational buzzphrase.

“The only role Landry and Kyle (Korver, assistant GM) and I talked about when I agreed to come to Atlanta is me coaching the team,” Snyder said. “That’s what I like and it’s also what I’m passionate about. Any speculation about me having a more significant role than providing input on personnel decisions is just not accurate. I have total confidence in Landry and his group to make those decisions. As I see it, my job is to maximize the potential of the personnel, whatever the personnel is. That’s where my focus lies. That speculation is erroneous.”

Counterpoint: Two things can be true at once: 1) Snyder never asked for some level of control; 2) Because of his resume and stature and job security that wasn’t afforded Pierce or McMillan, he’s effectively above Fields and answers only to Ressler.

Snyder’s rebuttal: “That’s just a clever way of saying I have control even though I’m telling you I don’t. It’s a way of saying I’m going to exert influence and that’s not true. That’s not healthy. It’s not the partnership I wanted. I want to be supportive. I want to provide input and then I want to do my job. I understand what you’re saying. But it’s just not accurate.” (Snyder similarly denies narratives about why he left the Jazz, including that he didn’t want to be a part of a rebuilding process.)

Ressler is the only individual with true control over the Hawks’ decisions. 

Fields maintains he’s the guy in charge of basketball ops. “Am I going to be perfect? Absolutely not,” he said. “But I promise that any mistakes or successes we have, we’ll reflect on those.”

As for the seeming difficulty and enormity of what faces him, Fields said, “When you use words like difficulty and enormity, I can understand that. But I don’t necessarily feel that, and maybe that’s a good thing. I don’t feel the overwhelming pressure of it all. It almost feels like this is how the NBA is and you’re either built for it or you’re not.”

[JayBirdHawk]

 

AJC Hawks beat reporter Lauren Williams sits down with Hawks VP of Player Personnel/Basketball Intelligence Tori Miller

 

[sturt]

On 6/18/2023 at 5:23 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Snyder’s rebuttal: “That’s just a clever way of saying I have control even though I’m telling you I don’t. It’s a way of saying I’m going to exert influence and that’s not true. That’s not healthy. It’s not the partnership I wanted. I want to be supportive. I want to provide input and then I want to do my job. I understand what you’re saying. But it’s just not accurate.” (Snyder similarly denies narratives about why he left the Jazz, including that he didn’t want to be a part of a rebuilding process.)

It was somewhat convincing right up until that last part, right? Does anyone seriously believe that Quin would have left Utah if Ainge had ran back essentially the same roster? 

Sooooo, but here's where I do think there is legitimate room even still for "two things to be true at the same time"... Quin doesn't expect of Landry et al to do what he says... but but but... Landry is wise enough to do that anyway maybe ... and/or and/or and/or... Landry knows whether explicitly or implicitly Antony Peter will be much more easy to placate to the degree the owner knows a given decision has Quin's support.

Right?

 

Related... here's all you really need to know on the topic of whether this operation is being guided in the conventional strong dictatorial GM way, or if it's much more like a committee with a chairman carrying a lot of weight but who very much is inviting his colleagues to share the load:

On 6/18/2023 at 5:23 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Fields maintains he’s the guy in charge of basketball ops. “Am I going to be perfect? Absolutely not,” he said. “But I promise that any mistakes or successes we have, we’ll reflect on those.”

Notice how Landry BEGINS his answer with "I"... but that's not how he finishes the response, is it. It's a "we" thing. 

(Not that that is new language. Reaffirms what we already knew from both his words and at least as importantly, his boss's.)

[sturt]

On 6/18/2023 at 5:23 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

"When you use words like difficulty and enormity, I can understand that. But I don’t necessarily feel that, and maybe that’s a good thing. I don’t feel the overwhelming pressure of it all. It almost feels like this is how the NBA is and you’re either built for it or you’re not.”

Young Landry can't feel the "overwhelming pressure of it all" for hopefully obvious reasons he recognizes... he's new... his job is not on the line to deliver... yet. That day is more likely than unlikely to be visible within a year or two or three, depending on success.

But also, that his boss's consistent theme over the course of the years where it concerns basketball ops leadership is that APR mainly wants to see "plays well with his peers" on the report card. He wants to see a "collaborative" group, which, again again again, allows himself, Antony Peter, the latitude to excuse himself for having the ultimate final word on any high-gravity decisions.

[AHF]

54 minutes ago, sturt said:

 Quin doesn't expect of Landry et al to do what he says... but but but... Landry is wise enough to do that listen to him anyway

This would be ideal, imo.  A coach shouldn't have decision-making authority on personnel matters, but a coach and a GM should work together closely and collaboratively.  Here, Quin's voice should be a prominent one in the room when evaluating our current players and potential moves but Landry shouldn't be a rubber stamp for him.

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

This would be ideal, imo.  A coach shouldn't have decision-making authority on personnel matters, but a coach and a GM should work together closely and collaboratively.  Here, Quin's voice should be a prominent one in the room when evaluating our current players and potential moves but Landry shouldn't be a rubber stamp for him.

The difference is that you're arguing for the rule... in theory, that's how one conventionally would expect the Organizational Leadership for Dummies to read.

I'm fine with that rule, and endorse it. (It's part of why, actually, I was so irritated with APR's revelation that he'd lied about the Travis break-up.)

But this is the classic moment where the exception to the rule deserves to be applied instead... for reasons already exhaustingly deliberated.

But circling back, I'm given a lot of comfort seeing how Landry talks about it all... though, I do want him to feel more stressed than he apparently is... this is a huge moment in the timeline of the Trae Young era.

HUGE.

[AHF]

33 minutes ago, sturt said:

The difference is that you're arguing for the rule... in theory, that's how one conventionally would expect the Organizational Leadership for Dummies to read.

I'm fine with that rule, and endorse it. (It's part of why, actually, I was so irritated with APR's revelation that he'd lied about the Travis break-up.)

But this is the classic moment where the exception to the rule deserves to be applied instead... for reasons already exhaustingly deliberated.

But circling back, I'm given a lot of comfort seeing how Landry talks about it all... though, I do want him to feel more stressed than he apparently is... this is a huge moment in the timeline of the Trae Young era.

HUGE.

Quin just explained in the most plain terms possible that the rule applies and the exception for which you are advocating does not.  You can choose not to believe him but both he and Landry have been clear that Landry calls the shots on personnel matters.  You and I disagree on whether the exception to the rule deserves to be applied but Quin and Landry seem to agree that the rule in fact applies and not the exception where Quin has ultimate authority for which you are advocating.  

Agree we've covered the ground on our respective views on what should be the case, but this is the clearest statement I think anyone could hope for from Quin in terms of describing what in fact is the line of authority on personnel issues.  (Grant one could say he is a liar who secretly holds that power behind the scenes but I'm not going to presume that of either him or Landry.)

In terms of this being a pivotal offseason, you and I are perfectly aligned.  The decisions made this offseason could have very large and long lasting implications for the franchise.  

[Gray Mule]

An old, wise saying: "Two heads are better than one."

To make this work there must be some disagreement.  If they agree on everything then one of them is useless.  We don't need a "yes man"  who simply agrees with everything.

We here are a fine example.  We don't always agree with everything posted here.  We have some very lively discussions over a lot of different things.  I hope our Head coach and our GM do the same.

"Two heads are better than one!"

[Gray Mule]

I believe thast our GM has the final say about whatever the question is.  Doesn't mean he will not listen to others.  Lots of input goes into any decision he makes.  

[sturt]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

this is the clearest statement I think anyone could hope for from Quin

It is. We agree on that much. 

Question. Did you bother reading my post or did the mere sight of me responding trigger you to figure I offered nothing reasonable, nothing meriting chewing on... ?.... hehe

Because I really did speak to your protests already, and don't feel like repeating them would make any difference.

Cliffs Notes... no one can credibly persuade, not even the man himself, that his reasons for exiting Utah had nothing to do with Ainge's purge... that attempt in the context of this discussion suggests he's capable of saying and maintaining what he would prefer people to believe regardless of compelling reason to believe otherwise. That said, I said what I said, and there remains every compelling reason to believe it could be reality (... acknowledging, of course, that reality is rarely ever completely extant).

I'll only add, there is ZERO INCENTIVE... NOTHING GOOD COULD POSSIBLY COME FROM... Quin saying anything less than what he said. Would be foolish... players would look at him differently... GM would be put in a very awkward place... it's simply not something a professional, sober person would ever allow to be perceived by a function of his own words.

(Surely we all also can agree on that precise point.)

[sturt]

30 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

An old, wise saying: "Two heads are better than one."

To make this work there must be some disagreement.  If they agree on everything then one of them is useless.  We don't need a "yes man"  who simply agrees with everything.

We here are a fine example.  We don't always agree with everything posted here.  We have some very lively discussions over a lot of different things.  I hope our Head coach and our GM do the same.

"Two heads are better than one!"

That Book of Proverbs has some wisdom in it, don't it.

[AHF]

30 minutes ago, sturt said:

It is. We agree on that much. 

Question. Did you bother reading my post or did the mere sight of me responding trigger you to figure I offered nothing reasonable, nothing meriting chewing on... ?.... hehe

Because I really did speak to your protests already, and don't feel like repeating them would make any difference.

Cliffs Notes... no one can credibly persuade, not even the man himself, that his reasons for exiting Utah had nothing to do with Ainge's purge... that attempt in the context of this discussion suggests he's capable of saying and maintaining what he would prefer people to believe regardless of compelling reason to believe otherwise. That said, I said what I said, and there remains every compelling reason to believe it could be reality (... acknowledging, of course, that reality is rarely ever completely extant).

I'll only add, there is ZERO INCENTIVE... NOTHING GOOD COULD POSSIBLY COME FROM... Quin saying anything less than what he said. Would be foolish... players would look at him differently... GM would be put in a very awkward place... it's simply not something a professional, sober person would ever allow to be perceived by a function of his own words.

(Surely we all also can agree on that precise point.)

Absolutely we can't agree on that point.  If Ressler gave Quin ultimate authority over personnel matters the 100% right decision would be to openly announce that.  Otherwise, it puts Quin and Landry in the position of having to lie to the public repeatedly in a way that is very likely to be revealed.  It isn't like the Hawks don't end up with stuff leaking out of their organization.  A professional, sober person would just say he is the President and that Landry reports to him and be honest about it.  That is hardly without precedent.  It is openly what the Hawks did with Budenholzer.  It is what the Spurs have done.  It is how a responsible, professional team handles things - not lying to the public about something that there is no need to deceive and lie about.

I am struggling to figure out where you are coming from on this one other than you have repeatedly said you believe Quin should be in charge and likely is in charge and are reluctant to back away from that position.  Otherwise, you are just advocating for the team to needlessly lie to their fan base when they could just openly say that Quin is in charge and no one would give them a lot of grief for it given Landry's relative inexperience as a GM.  This would be highly unprofessional in multiple dimensions, imo.

If the team has done this, I would expect it to come out shortly after Landry and Quin disagree and Quin pulls rank.  How hard is it to envision the post from Camp or Soth, etc. about how Landry didn't want to do X but Quin made the final call?  At that point, the fan base has more reasons to question the credibility of all three of Ressler, Quin, and Landry and there is just absolutely no need to hide it if Quin has that authority.

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

How hard is it to envision the post from Camp or Soth, etc. about how Landry didn't want to do X but Quin made the final call?  At that point, the fan base has more reasons to question the credibility of all three of Ressler, Quin, and Landry and there is just absolutely no need to hide it if Quin has that authority.

If this happens, we would still then be a dysfunctional front office and it will trickle down to the players.

We need to have our front office in order and limit constant upheaval. We have to get RIGHT!

[sturt]

*sigh*

I'm a little frustrated, not that you persist... we both, AHF, share some appreciation, even love for spirited deliberation... but that I'm crippled at the moment by being restricted to posting by thumb, and not ten fingers on my laptop.

Will get back to you, maybe, after this current 6(!) day power outage in my neck of the woods finally meets it's sweet end.

[sturt]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If this happens, we would still then be a dysfunctional front office and it will trickle down to the players.

We need to have our front office in order and limit constant upheaval. We have to get RIGHT!

Wait. Did I see what I think I just saw? Jay jumped in to endorse some point IIIIIIIII made?!?!?!?!?

[Gray Mule]

20 minutes ago, sturt said:

Wait. Did I see what I think I just saw? Jay jumped in to endorse some point IIIIIIIII made?!?!?!?!?

Sturt:  Just remember, like all the rest of us, you sometimes get things right!

[AHF]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

*sigh*

I'm a little frustrated, not that you persist... we both, AHF, share some appreciation, even love for spirited deliberation... but that I'm crippled at the moment by being restricted to posting by thumb, and not ten fingers on my laptop.

Will get back to you, maybe, after this current 6(!) day power outage in my neck of the woods finally meets it's sweet end.

Fair enough.  We can discuss then.  

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If this happens, we would still then be a dysfunctional front office and it will trickle down to the players.

We need to have our front office in order and limit constant upheaval. We have to get RIGHT!

Not sure if you are saying that announcing that Landry reports to Quin when in fact he does would make for a dysfunctional front office or if you are saying that lying about Landry being in charge when Quin actually has the final say and then having that lie exposed would make for a dysfunctional front office.  My own view is that the latter would be much worse than the former.  Everyone in the organization is going to know who has the real authority so lying to the public about it hardly makes for a more stable front office, imo.